Weight distribution and anti sway equipment?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Paid Blogger................

I wish.

Note the information is for a generic Pivot Point Projection hitch, and I always try to use Hensley/ProPride together. They are direct competitors.

This thread is a hitch thread. When someone suggests we need a $70,000 dollar heavy pickup to stabilize an Airstream (for the umpteenth time), I suggest a $2,500 dollar hitch as a more sensible choice (for the umpteenth time).

It's the nature of experience and discussion about what we have all learned.

Or as in the o.p.'s case, any quality, well set up weight distribution hitch is better than none when things go bad, or when you might want to carry more in the truck's bed than you had planned. That's a sensible choice as well.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Now when I pass a pickup truck towing a boat or box trailer, or RV, I look at the hitch. 90% of the time it's just on the ball.
Haven't seen any flip over yet.

Hi

Back when we lived in Kansas they had "high profile vehicle alerts" based on wind conditions. One fairly sure thing each season -- pictures on TV of high profile vehicles in trouble from the wind soon after. Yes, it's no different than snow issues with a blizzard. People do silly things and get in trouble ...(I've certainly done some stupid stuff over the last 50 years. Some of it was soon followed by a hospital visit

Bob

[tjdonahoe]

As I have posted before on my big trucks , with a pintal hitch behind the rear axle pulling a 3 axle trailer, is the same as a pickup with a bumper pull trailer, the empty weight of the truck is 27500 lbs, empty trailer is 12500 lbs..the loaded weights are 55,500 and 43500lbs.....the towing vehicle is heavier than the trailer, I towed the loaded trailer with the empty truck a short distance on the highway one time,never again...this kenworth has 4 axles pulling a 3 axle pup trailer with 1.4 million miles and never has the trailer attempted to take over...it handles good even on snow and icey roads...so the towing vehicle weight VS the trailer weight does make a difference...

[rostam]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

As I have posted before on my big trucks , with a pintal hitch behind the rear axle pulling a 3 axle trailer, is the same as a pickup with a bumper pull trailer, the empty weight of the truck is 27500 lbs, empty trailer is 12500 lbs..the loaded weights are 55,500 and 43500lbs.....the towing vehicle is heavier than the trailer, I towed the loaded trailer with the empty truck a short distance on the highway one time,never again...this kenworth has 4 axles pulling a 3 axle pup trailer with 1.4 million miles and never has the trailer attempted to take over...it handles good even on snow and icey roads...so the towing vehicle weight VS the trailer weight does make a difference...

This is absolutely correct. There was a mechanical engineering technical article cited in a previous thread (it got deleted before I could bookmark the article), that researched the factors involved in stability of pull behind trailers. The relative weight of TV as compared to trailer was a major factor (I believe it was the second most important factor after speed). So, its not just seat of the pants when folks say they feel their trailer is more stable behind an HD truck (which is much heavier than an 1/2 truck). Of course this does not mean we all have to buy an HD truck. It all depends on the weight of the trailer we plan to pull.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

While I completely agree that this whole discussion gets out of control each time it comes up (weekly) ...

The Ford guy in the video is referring to something fairly specific. At that point he's bragging (rightly) on how strong / stiff the frame is on the new 250's. Many vehicles have two towing numbers. One is with WD and the other without WD. This is a frame strength issue to some degree. It also gets into several other things (like axles). The 250's only have one number, it's the same with and without WD.

It's not hard to come up with examples of *any* vehicle getting into trouble due to strange conditions. Often "I have fancy equipment" translates to "I'll take bigger risks". Multiple big 4x4 SUV's sitting by the side of the road upside down after a blizzard is a depressingly common example. There is no simple single answer to any of this.

Bob

Agreed.
The human factor is by far the most influential in all of this.
And thankfully, judging by the statistics the vast majority of us towing are responsible and manage to stay out of trouble with what ever equipment we use.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by rostam

This is absolutely correct. There was a mechanical engineering technical article cited in a previous thread (it got deleted before I could bookmark the article), that researched the factors involved in stability of pull behind trailers. The relative weight of TV as compared to trailer was a major factor (I believe it was the second most important factor after speed). So, its not just seat of the pants when folks say they feel their trailer is more stable behind an HD truck (which is much heavier than an 1/2 truck). Of course this does not mean we all have to buy an HD truck. It all depends on the weight of the trailer we plan to pull.

A pick-up truck is designed to allow additional weight to be carried on the back axle, not so much the front axle. If the truck is evenly loaded with cargo, most of the additional weight is, in fact, on the back axle...where it belongs. If a WDH can redistribute the tongue weight of the TT to the truck axles in the same proportion as an equal weight of evenly distributed cargo in the bed of the truck, then any p-u (even a mid-size) rated for 1/2 ton should handle a TT with up to 1000 lb tongue weight. The key here is getting the WDH adjusted properly...a somewhat iffy assumption...to redistribute the tongue weight exactly correct.

The other condition in towing is sway control. The electronic systems available with late model pick-ups (5 years or so) are much more sophisticated and reliable than any mechanical system. A 2013 half-ton Silverado, for example, can be had with electronic Trailer Sway Control (TSC) and Integrated Trailer Brake Control (ITBC) in addition to ABS, electronic stability control (ESC), and traction control system (TCS). Working together these features react instantly to any degree of yaw, applying individual braking to different wheels and backing off throttle until sway is controlled. Spending the extra money to buy a WDH with integrated (supposedly) sway control is redundant at best and just wasting your money IMO.

No amount of technology is gonna compensate for stupid moves and lack of common sense towing, of course.

[Kent M]

M.Hony:

You're right down the pike.....


Kent
Houston

[m.hony]

Right down the pike?
Meaning?
Not very close to Houston at all...

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Back when we lived in Kansas they had "high profile vehicle alerts" based on wind conditions. One fairly sure thing each season -- pictures on TV of high profile vehicles in trouble from the wind soon after. Yes, it's no different than snow issues with a blizzard. People do silly things and get in trouble ...(I've certainly done some stupid stuff over the last 50 years. Some of it was soon followed by a hospital visit

Bob

Yes, and the majority of those "high profile" vehicles are semi's which as the Pro Pride salesman pointed out are not suffering the problems of a bumper pull hitch. The wind simply blew them over!
BTW, I agreed with 100% of what DKottum said....until the last sentence.
"Don't buy a RollsRoyce when a Mercedes will do." Um, I'm more of a Toyota guy.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Yes, and the majority of those "high profile" vehicles are semi's which as the Pro Pride salesman pointed out are not suffering the problems of a bumper pull hitch. The wind simply blew them over!
BTW, I agreed with 100% of what DKottum said....until the last sentence.
"Don't buy a RollsRoyce when a Mercedes will do." Um, I'm more of a Toyota guy.

Hi

Actually there generally were a pretty good number cab over campers flipped over on TV. Still nothing to do with AS hitches. A lot do do with ignoring the warnings ....

Bob

[Kent M]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I wish.

Note the information is for a generic Pivot Point Projection hitch, and I always try to use Hensley/ProPride together. They are direct competitors.

This thread is a hitch thread. When someone suggests we need a $70,000 dollar heavy pickup to stabilize an Airstream (for the umpteenth time), I suggest a $2,500 dollar hitch as a more sensible choice (for the umpteenth time).

It's the nature of experience and discussion about what we have all learned.

Or as in the o.p.'s case, any quality, well set up weight distribution hitch is better than none when things go bad, or when you might want to carry more in the truck's bed than you had planned. That's a sensible choice as well.

In your support, I note:

Some people enjoy a P/U with a camper shell. It's a free country, so it's their choice. Others go for a 23' SOB, or maybe even a 23' AS even if it's more expensive. Same comment about a free country as before works here, too. Some run 14" tires, some 15', some even bigger. Some people (amongst AS owners) want a shiny new 30', all-the-inside-gadgets, top of the line trailer, with a top of the line, big honkin' diesel puller, every year or two. Free country and all of that. Some of the new TVs even have almost 1000 ft/lbs of torque -- wow, think of that! Some people do the weirdest things, don't they? And it's THEIR decision.....

The main point of my personal agreement with you is the statement I tried to underline above. There is, in my opinion, a basic level of weight distribution needed, along with a basic level of sway control. The proper Reese (insert your own brand here) system works well, is safe and inexpensive. Yah know, I understand some people tow their trailers with BMWs, and Cadillacs, and probably a Rolls-Royce or two, somewhere out there. Free country, and all that.....

Happy trailering, all.


Kent
Houston

[Kent M]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Right down the pike?
Meaning?
Not very close to Houston at all...

"Right down the pike" means I was totally agreeing with your last missive. And it's not THAT far between us.

Kent

[m.hony]

Maybe an 8 or 9 hour drive...
The closest we get to Houston is when we go to a rally every year at Salmon Lake Park in Grapeland, Texas. Maybe I will drive over to Nagodoches and tour the Foretravel plant one day.
It's even hotter there than it is here...
Guy above says some folks want a 30' Airstream (yep) and a big diesel pickup (nope)...

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Maybe an 8 or 9 hour drive...
The closest we get to Houston is when we go to a rally every year at Salmon Lake Park in Grapeland, Texas. Maybe I will drive over to Nagodoches and tour the Foretravel plant one day.
It's even hotter there than it is here...
Guy above says some folks want a 30' Airstream (yep) and a big diesel pickup (nope)...

FYI,

I am one of those folks who enjoys a 30' Classic with all the bells and whistles, a F-250 with the big 6.7 diesel, 920 flb torque, with all the bells and whistles including power running boards and panoramic sunroof. Love the whole enchilada. I am smiles ear to ear rolling down the highway.
And don't have a problem with $ 200.00 oil changes either. :-)

[m.hony]

I don't have a problem with a blinged out Tundra.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

FYI,

I am one of those folks who enjoys a 30' Classic with all the bells and whistles, a F-250 with the big 6.7 diesel, 920 flb torque, with all the bells and whistles including power running boards and panoramic sunroof. Love the whole enchilada. I am smiles ear to ear rolling down the highway.
And don't have a problem with $ 200.00 oil changes either. :-)

And they seen you coming from a long way off......$850 for lifetime oil changes on my new Ram ......

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Sorry to say, but oil changes don't seem to show up in the numbers when I add them in with the fuel bill. $200 for oil is about the same as how many stops at the pump? I seem to stop at least a couple times a day with something like an AS behind the truck.

Bob

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

And they seen you coming from a long way off......$850 for lifetime oil changes on my new Ram ......

Your post clearly implies that I am an idiot and a fool.
You must not have grasped the gist of a number of intelligent posts.
While I would debate the choices of equipment based on their suitability and technical merits all day long I would never think of ridiculing someone for choosing a particular TV or Trailer.
Each to his own and whatever floats you boat dude.

[Kent M]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

FYI,

I am one of those folks who enjoys a 30' Classic with all the bells and whistles, a F-250 with the big 6.7 diesel, 920 flb torque, with all the bells and whistles including power running boards and panoramic sunroof. Love the whole enchilada. I am smiles ear to ear rolling down the highway.
And don't have a problem with $ 200.00 oil changes either. :-)

We seem to be close cousins.....your TV qualifies as a "big honkin' diesel"....

We can shake hands at the campground some day.

Kent
Houston

[Kent M]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Maybe an 8 or 9 hour drive...
The closest we get to Houston is .......
.....
Guy above says some folks want a 30' Airstream (yep) and a big diesel pickup (nope)...

That would be me, and you amply support my contention. Thank you profusely.

And I can easily make it to Nacogdoches. I know an excellent "resort" out in the country near there, and I'm retired......


Kent Marshall
Houston