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Old 06-29-2017, 06:53 AM   #161
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As a followup for those not familiar:

Still want the solo weight, same day, Pat. See Three Pass Method by Ron Gratz I linked over here in 2010 or so.

I like "zero" as my Steer starting point. Same Steer Axle solo or loaded, WD tensioned.

It's the "best" point to get individual wheel loads on the TV. Whichever tire has highest load on an axle, that's the pressure minimum.

And getting weights on TT is good also. TT will always favor (pull towards) heaviest side. Hopefully (usually ) it's curb side. Main thing is axle equalization: no real difference in load per trailer axle. That's how to define "level".

With TT tires to sidewall max, the experimentation with TV tire pressure range is easier to feel.

There's a minimum, and there's a range of "best"

CapriRacer recommends 1.5-hrs steady state driving for full warm up. With an easy as possible stop in a rest area, check for pressure rise of 5-7%.

Much more than that needs more air. I use 5-lbs with LT E-rate. Find the minimum. Then changes are easy.

Try it at "zero" first. Then change WD settings. Get tire pressure squared away earliest.

If you run TT tires lower, leave that till last.

If you aren't running KONI or Bilstein shocks, it's worth the change.

Same for replacement polyurethane bushings on anti-roll bars.

And I'm guessing you avoided the cracked GM hitch receiver problem of that era.

Good luck.
Could you resend a link to Gratz three pass method.
Thanks
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:36 AM   #162
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...

I recommend using sales brochures as guides. Decoration and angles.

1969 Streamline is best, IMO. See at Tom Patterson site.

What I didn't have then and also recommend is an ozone generator. Takes care of "old age" smell. Overnight, then air out. And if a smell comes back, get the source.

First impression (sight and smell) sells these things.



And guys will travel for that Dodge. Just tell 'em you're an old fart RVer. Don't know much about the truck mechanical details, but hate to sell it nevertheless (ha!). It'll be a race to git thar!!
Hi

All good advice. A few more:

Remove all personal belongings and "stuff" from the trailer. They need to see big empty spaces when they look in here or there. Toss the well used drain hose. You'll never see a dealer include that in a pre-sales pitch. Put all the odd cables, adapters and other fittings in a big box separate from the trailer. Let them go through them if they wish.

I'd add a good wash and wax for the outside. Make it *sparkle* Same spray out / wash out thing for stuff like the bumper storage area and the undercarriage.

Bob
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:38 AM   #163
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To Slow Mover:

I don't mean to be argumentative but some of your statements need to be responded to.

I am 73 and got my experience driving semis and before changing carers drove Semi Tankers hauling chemicals and oil products for three years.
I don't ever recall pulling a 8k GL tanker that wasn't compartmentalized or baffled. It would be suicidal to drive one that wasn't always fully loaded. There are chemicals out there that weigh up to 14 lbs per gallon and the most you could haul is 4k in a semi trailer due to weight restriction.

As to your comment that there isn't an Airstream out there a half ton can't handle, pulling stopping yes, however a 30' AS will shove an air stream around even a slow curve where you have to slow down considerably to maintain full control, not so with a heavier 3/4 ton. I learned this through personal experience. I pulled with a 1/2 ton for 4 years and recently switched to a 3/4 ton and the driving experience is day and night.
Yes, one would be just fine with a half ton, toting around at 55 MPH or less at all times but that doesn't work for most of us.

My My F-250 will stop on dime if I lock them up without a full load or a trailer behind. Better than my car. When towing or loaded to the max everyone should make sure to maintain a safe speed and distance dictated by road and traffic conditions that is just plain common sense.
You couldn't even stop a fully loaded semi with air brakes on dime, I know that from personal experience driving thousands of hours a fully loaded tanker through Chicago's and the Metropolitan areas notorious traffic jams.
Well, you haven't seen or heard it all, that's certain. 7k-gl smoothbore tanker with 5,150-gals. A tick under 47,000-lbs of product. 79,525 at this Load-out. Product slosh is impressive. A few beers and the spellbinding of colliding wave periodicity charts, ha! In every direction.

I'm going to guess you're a big boy, so:

There's a good deal you may wish to learn given the earnestness of your posts. You're not there, yet.

The great threat to TTs are adverse winds. Followed by overcorrection at the steering wheel. You miss that first, and seem to believe "magic" will overcome the second. Don't misunderstand. If you've driven commercially you should be the first to know you can be taken unawares.

A VPP hitch has no peer. You've never used one. We'll take your superior and smaller rig and put against my larger and inferior rig (suspension and electronic gizmo-wise). I'll not only run rings around you (given equalization of skill), I'll do maneuvers that'll roll you.

It's insurance. Once you've tested what is possible, not just reasonable. For when we are taken unawares.

Etc.

I'm third generation at this, with this trailer type. Could be also I'm not the only one where depth of experience ought to give you pause.
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:47 AM   #164
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Hi

Well as long as we're drifting off topic a bit (how unusual ...). Here's one that almost gave me a heart attack last week.

We're chugging through the ever popular PA turnpike curves and hills west of here. I'm pretty far back (800' ?) from a Fed Ex guy pulling a pair of what look like 28' trailers. As we go in and out of the wind shadow of this and that the wind hits pretty quick.

He's headed into a curve, down hill and the second trailer starts to sway. It comes out pretty much all the way across the second lane at least twice. Fortunately he did calm it down rather than crash. I was a bit more focused on slowing down incase he rolled than watching all of the gyrations.

So here's the question: I don't ever remember seeing brake lights. I may have missed them. If he didn't brake, how did he get things back running right?

Bob
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:54 AM   #165
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Hi

Well as long as we're drifting off topic a bit (how unusual ...). Here's one that almost gave me a heart attack last week.

We're chugging through the ever popular PA turnpike curves and hills west of here. I'm pretty far back (800' ?) from a Fed Ex guy pulling a pair of what look like 28' trailers. As we go in and out of the wind shadow of this and that the wind hits pretty quick.

He's headed into a curve, down hill and the second trailer starts to sway. It comes out pretty much all the way across the second lane at least twice. Fortunately he did calm it down rather than crash. I was a bit more focused on slowing down incase he rolled than watching all of the gyrations.

So here's the question: I don't ever remember seeing brake lights. I may have missed them. If he didn't brake, how did he get things back running right?

Bob


A guess - gassing it is like pulling a thread so if it was wobbly and he gave it more gas that could have straightened it out - I wonder if braking would have been worse - meaning, the trailer box is pushing its way around so if he slowed the truck it would be MORE susceptible to getting pushed around by the trailers - no? I don't understand physics so go easy if this is totally wrong!
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:57 AM   #166
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Generally speaking, braking only worsens a trailer sway condition. Accelerating slightly while applying trailer brakes with the brake controller can help straighten things out.
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:57 AM   #167
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uncle bob,

If the FedEx driver manually applied the brakes on the rear trailer only, would this have lit up his brake lights? Not sure how those lights are set up. Maybe from the main brake pedal only?

When hitchhiking decades ago, I got a ride in a semi in a snow storm, and he demonstrated applying the trailer brakes only, to induce an out-of-control trailer fishtail situation, which he promptly corrected. Just a single trailer back then. And he was not correcting a sway condition, just demonstrating the trailer brakes.

Can a semi driver manually apply only the rear trailer's brakes on a double rig, in order to calm down a sway situation?

Thanks,

Peter

PS -- Wikipedia article on Long Combination rigs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Combination_Vehicle

B Train: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-train
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:30 AM   #168
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The FedEx driver most likely applied trailer brakes by hand while applying slight fuel.
Not sure the trailer brake hand control illuminates the brake lights.
I will check- I always check the trailer brakes with the hand control at the beginning of every trip.
I may need to enlist the help of my wife to see if the brake lights come on using the hand control only.
Somehow I doubt the hand control only will Illuminate the brake lights.
The brake lights are illuminated by a brake light switch down by the service/foot brake.
The service/foot brake is likely the only means by which the brake lights are illuminated.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:13 AM   #169
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If he has a hand brake and used it the brake light up, most of these freight trucks don't...in this situation all you can do is keep a steady pull forward, and don't look back...I spent 8 winters driving for the big CF pulling doubles and triples...
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:34 AM   #170
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Seems like doubles and triples are straighter uphill than downhill.
Following doubles and triples on a windy day looks like following a slithering snake.
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Old 07-01-2017, 10:45 AM   #171
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The FedEx driver most likely applied trailer brakes by hand while applying slight fuel.
Not sure the trailer brake hand control illuminates the brake lights.
I will check- I always check the trailer brakes with the hand control at the beginning of every trip.
I may need to enlist the help of my wife to see if the brake lights come on using the hand control only.
Somehow I doubt the hand control only will Illuminate the brake lights.
The brake lights are illuminated by a brake light switch down by the service/foot brake.
The service/foot brake is likely the only means by which the brake lights are illuminated.
FYI, applying the hand break will light up the break lights.
And no he would not have applied the brakes. That would be counter productive in pulling the swaying trailer back on track while accelerating.
You don't even have the time to be doing both. You need both hands on the steering wheel.
The most dangerous time for sway is rolling down hill especially for double trailers, that is when a sway control device does most of its work. It is also the least likely scenario to be accelerating.
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:39 AM   #172
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Hi

He could easily have accelerated and I'd not have been able to notice it from as far back as I was. There's only just so much you can notice unless you are right close up behind somebody. I avoid close following if I have any way not to.

Bob
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:15 PM   #173
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Hi He could easily have accelerated and I'd not have been able to notice it from as far back as I was. There's only just so much you can notice unless you are right close up behind somebody. I avoid close following if I have any way not to. Bob
Accelerating may be part of the sway control routine for ProPride or old school trucks, but generally you do NOT control sway by accelerating; you first need to slow down. Any of the newer trucks equipped with electronic sway control will selectively apply the brakes on the trailer and whichever TV wheels the computer determines. This is true on even the largest of newer highway trucks (see Volvo's VEST system):

https://www.volvotrucks.us/why-volvo...active-safety/

In any earlier post a member wrote that electronic sway control would not control individual wheel brakes on the trailer, at least not without significant and prohibitively expensive modifications. That too is just old school thinking. There are relatively simple trailer add-on sway control modules that control individual trailer brakes. They are also faster, more effective, far easier to install, don't require heavy lifting or adjustment with each use, and are way less expensive than a popular mechanical sway control system. The simple add-on modules will also work in conjunction with the truck's built-in sway control system, not fight against it.

For any member here who wants to know more about such systems, here is a good evaluation from a well-known truck/trailer evaluator.

https://mrtruck.com/tuson-trailer-sway-control.htm
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:29 PM   #174
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. . . There are relatively simple trailer add-on sway control modules that control individual trailer brakes.
Are there any commercial trailer sway systems which control both trailers of a double rig like the one uncle bob asked about in Post #164?

Thanks,

Peter


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. . .
. . . I'm pretty far back . . . from a Fed Ex guy pulling a pair of what look like 28' trailers.
. . .
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:27 AM   #175
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Good question, Peter. I don't know enough about the systems used on larger trucks like the Volvo to give you a precise answer. Yes is my speculative answer for what its worth. Here's my thinking. Autonomous driving technology is progressing with large trucks perhaps even more quickly than with passenger cars. Very sophisticated stability and sway control would be integral to this development IMO. Furthermore, if you watched the Mr. Truck vid, you saw they were pulling two large, heavily loaded commercial trailers in tandem; the rear trailer intentionally loaded incorrectly to un-weigh the tongue and induce severe sway. The Tuscon unit handled it easily though.
Unlike mechanical systems which are affected by total trailer weight, the Tuscon and other electronic systems are not. They look only at anomalous trailer movement and correct by selective braking, not by sheer mechanical force. Accordingly, it seems to me an electronic unit like the Tuscon could be installed on any trailer, tandem or otherwise, regardless of size and weight, and perform effectively. So if you have different info, please let me know.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:27 AM   #176
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Accelerating may be part of the sway control routine for ProPride or old school trucks, but generally you do NOT control sway by accelerating; you first need to slow down. Any of the newer trucks equipped with electronic sway control will selectively apply the brakes on the trailer and whichever TV wheels the computer determines. This is true on even the largest of newer highway trucks (see Volvo's VEST system):

https://www.volvotrucks.us/why-volvo...active-safety/

In any earlier post a member wrote that electronic sway control would not control individual wheel brakes on the trailer, at least not without significant and prohibitively expensive modifications. That too is just old school thinking. There are relatively simple trailer add-on sway control modules that control individual trailer brakes. They are also faster, more effective, far easier to install, don't require heavy lifting or adjustment with each use, and are way less expensive than a popular mechanical sway control system. The simple add-on modules will also work in conjunction with the truck's built-in sway control system, not fight against it.

For any member here who wants to know more about such systems, here is a good evaluation from a well-known truck/trailer evaluator.

https://mrtruck.com/tuson-trailer-sway-control.htm
Older trucks did not have built in sway and traction control modules where the brakes would automatically pulsate side to side.
The reason for accelerating just enough to maintain forward momentum is to keep the trailer from jackknifing or rolling over depending on road conditions. That is one scary event I had the bad fortune to experience on Chicago's Eisenhower expressway in dead of winter with a 50' trailer. Not having any traction on the snowy pavement I couldn't maintain forward motion and watched helplessly as the trailer slowly jackknifed into the cab. Fortunately traffic was moving slow and everyone just stopped and watched the show.
That lesson I learned 50 years ago and never forgot. Came in handy a few times toting around with the AS.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #177
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Accelerating may be part of the sway control routine for ProPride . . .
There is no sway control routine for Hensley/ProPride because there will never be any sway when using one. The design keeps the trailer in alignment with the tow vehicle.
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:26 AM   #178
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There is no sway control routine for Hensley/ProPride because there will never be any sway when using one. The design keeps the trailer in alignment with the tow vehicle.
Until it doesn't. In a not far-fetched scenario you find yourself feathering your brakes in a futile attempt to keep from gaining speed on a steep, tree-shaded mountain downhill when you suddenly encounter unexpected black ice on a sweeping turn. Good luck with that mechanical Hensley/ProPride at that point. As FranklyFrank saw when his 50' trailer jack-knife uncontrollably around behind him, your non-ABS, non-selective braking trailer locks up and yanks your TV around in a 360 degree circle just before you soil your undershorts. Your high priced system that depends on your very adroit manual braking and steering effort to avoid disaster is not going to perform up to your misplaced confidence level.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:15 AM   #179
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Until it doesn't. In a not far-fetched scenario you find yourself feathering your brakes in a futile attempt to keep from gaining speed on a steep, tree-shaded mountain downhill when you suddenly encounter unexpected black ice on a sweeping turn. Good luck with that mechanical Hensley/ProPride at that point. As FranklyFrank saw when his 50' trailer jack-knife uncontrollably around behind him, your non-ABS, non-selective braking trailer locks up and yanks your TV around in a 360 degree circle just before you soil your undershorts. Your high priced system that depends on your very adroit manual braking and steering effort to avoid disaster is not going to perform up to your misplaced confidence level.
No traction control system is going to help in that situation. Light snow packed down by traffic to form so-called "black ice" catches people by surprise every year. When there's no friction it's only a matter of time before someone loses control. When drivers are less than a car length (or semi truck length) apart doing 70 the results are predictable.

Don't expect sway control to do anything in that situation. When the temperature on your car thermometer is below freezing it's going to freeze.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:51 AM   #180
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The Hensley/ProPride hitch will perform better on ice than hitches depending on friction sway control because when you steer through a turn and then straighten the tow vehicle, there will be no friction device resisting the trailer from returning to neutral behind you.

When traveling on potentially icy roads using a hitch with built-in friction sway control, the sway control cannot be disconnected without losing weight distribution. Using a w.d. hitch with a separate friction control bar, you can disconnect the friction sway control bar and keep weight distribution, but lose sway control.

The Hensley/ProPride design is a completely different concept, retains sway control and weight distribution with no resistance to the trailer following the steering of the tow vehicle. The trailer simply pivots on its mechanically projected pivot point near the tow vehicle's rear axle.
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