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Old 06-13-2017, 02:50 PM   #113
jcl
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
FYI,

Modern diesels are no more polluting than a comparably seized gas engine.
If that was true VW, Mercedes, and Ram would still be selling the same Diesel engines they offered in previous years, but which can't meet current emissions standards in the real world, at least at a competitive price point. While gasoline engines in the same vehicle can do so.

In Europe they have had more relaxed standards for emissions from Diesel engines, to get the fuel economy benefits. Your quote suggests they don't need that lower bar.

And then we have the real world testing that shows that many diesels don't even meet the lower standard once they are off the dynamometer.

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default...s_20141010.pdf
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:03 PM   #114
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Weight distribution and anti sway equipment?

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However your last paragraph was opinionated conjecture and unnecessary. It would at best confuse at worst prejudice a newbie looking for information to make a decision.
Agreed Frank. In rereading my post I should have omitted that last paragraph which was just an opinion. It doesn't necessarily serve any value.




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Besides you have no clue to the depth of experience gained over a lifetime towing many different trailers with as many varied tow vehicles by a good number of participants on this forum.

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion but I certainly enjoy learning from this forum almost every day and also enjoy sharing my experiences for others to learn from.

Be safe out there… I'm driving across Nebraska right now hauling the 30' with a gentle 40 mph crosswind. Fun times.

PS - went over the CAT scales twice on this trip -once with and once without the trailer connected via weight distribution. All the numbers look great, all well within the published limits of the vehicle (GVWR, GAWR (f/r), CGWR, tongue weight on the receiver, tire load range @ max cold PSI, etc.)

Attached are the numbers if anyone is interested. (CGWR in the line item below should actually read CWR) gross combined is well over 14k lbs...
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:37 PM   #115
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I like the guy a few years ago that said his brake controller was made by Nike.

At least he was humorous.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:41 AM   #116
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That simply isn't true. Yes, there is ammonia and water vapour emitted as a result of the SCR, but also a host of harmful substances, including carcinogens and smog creating NOx.

LEV is an emissions standard. An average.
ULEV is 50% better.
SULEV is 90% better
ZEV has zero emissions. By definition, an ULEV is not a zero emissions vehicle.
Zero emission anything is pure nonsense.
The Standards are set mostly based on hyped emotions and promoted by aggressive PC. Nothing created by a manufacturing process or using energy of any kind is a Zero emission creation.
Everything in the universe emits something.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:41 AM   #117
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Zero emission anything is pure nonsense.
The Standards are set mostly based on hyped emotions and promoted by aggressive PC. Nothing created by a manufacturing process or using energy of any kind is a Zero emission creation.
Everything in the universe emits something.
Tailpipe emissions, in case that wasn't clear.

Whatever the tailpipe standards are, do you concur then that diesels are emitting more than comparable gasoline engines, which was your claim above?
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:18 AM   #118
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Tailpipe emissions, in case that wasn't clear.

Whatever the tailpipe standards are, do you concur then that diesels are emitting more than comparable gasoline engines, which was your claim above?

I am from the Midwest you are in Vancouver BC, I seriously doubt we could ever concur on any subject.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:30 AM   #119
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Interesting the range of Google articles on Diesel vs. Gas. More smog or more CO2 and this one claimed gas spewed more particulate than new diesels. Ah, the wonder of it all.
http://achatespower.com/are-diesels-...oline-engines/
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:39 AM   #120
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Anti-Sway or Anti-Diesel thread?

Somehow it seems we got off topic here?
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:16 PM   #121
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......... From an environmental standpoint, these HD tow vehicles, especially the diesels, are a pollution disaster. New technologies hold the prospect of making these high consuming fossil fueled HD vehicles obsolete, the sooner the better........
Did you include this little tidbit of "truth" because it's your honest opinion based on your expert opinion, or is there some other factor set that we're really ignorant about?

Pot, meet kettle.....

Have you done any research into the reduction of pollution in the US over the last 20 or so years? I'd also like to find out what your expert opinion is about what the I/C tow vehicles are to be replaced with?

Just curious.


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Old 06-15-2017, 07:34 PM   #122
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That simply isn't true. Yes, there is ammonia and water vapour emitted as a result of the SCR, but also a host of harmful substances, including carcinogens and smog creating NOx.

...........
Not sure what you mean by "SCR", but the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) in newer diesel Fords is included in the diesel system SPECIFICALLY to scrub the NOx. It's been used in combustion turbine applications for years for exactly the same reason, as I recall.....


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Old 06-15-2017, 09:27 PM   #123
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Not sure what you mean by "SCR", but the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) in newer diesel Fords is included in the diesel system SPECIFICALLY to scrub the NOx. It's been used in combustion turbine applications for years for exactly the same reason, as I recall.....


Kent
Houston
SCR = selective catalytic reduction = the system that uses DEF
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:53 PM   #124
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Not sure what you mean by "SCR", but the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) in newer diesel Fords is included in the diesel system SPECIFICALLY to scrub the NOx. It's been used in combustion turbine applications for years for exactly the same reason, as I recall.....


Kent
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David clarified what SCR is above.

The SCR system (using DEF) certainly does reduce the levels of NOx. There have been great advances in that area over the past few years. It doesn't eliminate NOx, however, even when working at peak efficiency. It also doesn't work all the time, under all operating conditions. Note the reductions in efficacy at engine start up, at higher temperatures, and so on. Also, as real world testing has shown in numerous examples, some vehicles aren't anywhere near as clean over the road as they are on the dyno, with up to 7 times measured pollutants being emitted.

Then, think about all of the harmful substances coming out of the tailpipe other than NOx.

The original claim was that it was essentially water (and ammonia) coming out the tailpipe. If you want just water coming out the tailpipe look for a hydrogen fueled vehicle.

Even a "clean" diesel is a long way from being clean compared to a gasoline engine, or an alternate fuel vehicle. It is certainly clean, or cleaner, compared to older technology diesels, which is a feat in and of itself. Some posters above appear to believe that a clean diesel is a literal description.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:26 AM   #125
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I'd also like to find out what your expert opinion is about what the I/C tow vehicles are to be replaced with?

Just curious.


Kent
Houston
Don't know about USAtraveler, but here is a scenario for you, looking a little broader than just tow vehicles.

Reduction in use of diesel for lighter duty vehicles. Continued use of diesel for heavier duty vehicles. Lighter includes passenger vehicles. Heavier includes large trucks. You can decide where to draw the dividing line between the two applications depending on your thoughts on how fast it will come. Regardless, look for more restrictions on where and when diesels can operate, ie city limitations on diesel truck operation.

More diesel electric hybrids, especially in heavier trucks.

Increased use of alternate fuels (natural gas in particular, until the price goes up). Spark ignited CNG for lighter duty vehicles, and heavier duty vehicles with sufficient real estate available for fuel storage, or those applications with return to base route profiles. LNG for heavier duty vehicles (spark ignited plus Westport or similar diesel dual fuel technology) and where fuel storage density is important (considering the balance of space limitations and range requirements). See Volvo/KW/Caterpillar/EMD/etc projects.

Steady move towards electric power as replacement for IC. The IC will be around for quite a while, but eventually will be in the same category as kerosene lanterns are today. Interesting relics.

And any of the above can use weight distributing equipment when towing.

Note: For a look at what future tow vehicles may look like, see ohmman's threads on towing with his Tesla. Best info out there IMO.

Jeff
(Who doesn't claim to be an expert)
(But who spent a long career in the heavy duty diesel (and natural gas) engine business - the yellow ones from Peoria)
(And a shorter career in the alternate fuel heavy vehicle engine business leading engineering development of on board fuel storage, LNG and CNG)
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:37 AM   #126
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Yep, I run them yellow ones for 52 years, best engines ever built, the 1693's to the 3606E's......I know how dirty they were....a fun ride...
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