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Old 08-20-2015, 06:02 PM   #71
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. . . I have never seen a body on frame race car nor a unibody semi. They make different tools for different applications for a reason.
But if you took the best characteristics of both, race car unibody and great full independent suspension and the semi's abundance of low rpm diesel torque along with superior barking ability of either, put them together you'd have a Touareg.

Which at least brings us back to the original topic.
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:36 PM   #72
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But if you took the best characteristics of both, race car unibody and great full independent suspension and the semi's abundance of low rpm diesel torque along with superior barking ability of either, put them together you'd have a Touareg.

Which at least brings us back to the original topic.
....and like a LOT of compromises, it would do neither task well !

That's like saying all I need in my toolbox of hammers is a 16 ounce ball-peen.... I can use it to drive either tacks, or railroad spikes......
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Old 08-20-2015, 07:19 PM   #73
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Okay ...
2013 - 30' AS 7,365# trailer weight, 773# tongue, 10,000# GVWR
Pick nits much?
You are getting closer now that you are looking at 30 foot models.

Now look at the Signature, not the Classic. The weights were in post #73.
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Old 08-20-2015, 07:40 PM   #74
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I have never seen a body on frame race car nor a unibody semi. They make different tools for different applications for a reason.
Maybe the SUVs like the VW are for those who want something that handles more like a race car and less like a semi, while also being able to tow 7700 lbs or so when required.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:55 PM   #75
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VW Touareg diesel and 31 foot Airstream

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Now look at the Signature, not the Classic. The weights were in post #73.

Sure, I'll play along, but only one weight listed in your post and it doesn't match ...
AS says a 30' Signature weighs 6,382# without options or variables, 880# tongue, 8,800# GVWR.
I wouldn't do it. I used to get paid for doing crazy stuff, I'm retired now.
BTW, doing the numbers on our 75 Overlander 27', minimum options and medium variables added about 1,000#.
So this 30' with a GVWR of 8,800# and a 7,700# TV - No thanks!
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:55 PM   #76
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Except for the uninformed, torsional stiffness is NOT what you want when designing a vehicle for heavy loads. Ever notice why semi trucks have huge ladder frames and while under load especially from a stop they twist and buck when accelerating? This is by design.
Thank you. And this is why layman are not engineers.

Rigidity, torsional stiffness, strength, and durability are all too often conflated on these forums as singular concepts to justify towing beyond a manufacturers specs.

Fact is, they are at best guessing or justifying why they can tow beyond the manufacturers designed limit without truly understanding the system (because cars are complex systems with compromises to meet particular design requirements) limitations.

Sure you can modify one to suit your use case and I've been known to push boundaries. But some assumptions and justifications on these boards are very flawed, and quite scary to me.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:57 PM   #77
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ditto ...
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:40 PM   #78
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This is exactly the reason why I would never drive a pickup. I like X5 which is just all-purpose car for me. It is capable to tow heavy load, despite whining from truck fans. The ONLY concern I will probably have is the constant harassment on the road from the truck drivers... at least this is what I am hearing from German SUV owners towing larger trailers.

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Maybe the SUVs like the VW are for those who want something that handles more like a race car and less like a semi, while also being able to tow 7700 lbs or so when required.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:02 PM   #79
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Did I miss where the OP was actually asking anyone for their opinion? Maybe the mods should start a dedicated thread where the truck people can feel free to criticize alternative vehicles so that posts like this one, where a person wants to show off his trailer and TV combo, can do so without it being hijacked by people with nothing better to do than rain on his parade.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:04 PM   #80
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This is exactly the reason why I would never drive a pickup. I like X5 which is just all-purpose car for me. It is capable to tow heavy load, despite whining from truck fans. The ONLY concern I will probably have is the constant harassment on the road from the truck drivers... at least this is what I am hearing from German SUV owners towing larger trailers.

Well the issue about towing isn’t just about a machines ability to tow a 5 to 9K lb. rolling weight (or just gas mileage), but it’s ability to do so under all conditions, hills n’ dales and in avoidance situations... safely. My understanding is that an X5 and VW Touareg weigh in at about 4700 lbs. GVW. Most of the trailers we’ve been talking about here have weighed anywhere from over 5K lbs to about 9500 lbs.

Isn’t that a bit like the tail wagging the dog?

I’m pretty much of the opinion to follow directions and stick with what the manufacturer says it’s vehicle is capable of and give it a wide margin of error. It isn’t about trucks vs. minivans vs. tonka trucks or cars. It’s about safety.

I’ve never married myself to a vehicle so much so as to have to have it where I have to make all sorts of compromises to justify it. It can either do the job it was built to do according to the manufacturer or it can’t. If not, find something else. I could care less what they do in Japan, Germany, Canada or Timbuktu.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:31 PM   #81
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I am planning to tow SOB 6,000 lbs dry weight, 33 feet long. The car is rated to 7,700 lbs. It has brakes which are better than in ANY of the trucks on the market. I could mention lower center of gravity, etc. It was discussed to death.

Where is the safety compromised?
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:41 PM   #82
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Did I miss where the OP was actually asking anyone for their opinion? Maybe the mods should start a dedicated thread where the truck people can feel free to criticize alternative vehicles so that posts like this one, where a person wants to show off his trailer and TV combo, can do so without it being hijacked by people with nothing better to do than rain on his parade.

I think missed the part about criticizing alternative TVs just like many missed the part about exceeding a TVs towing capacity.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:46 PM   #83
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I am planning to tow SOB 6,000 lbs dry weight, 33 feet long. The car is rated to 7,700 lbs. It has brakes which are better than in ANY of the trucks on the market. I could mention lower center of gravity, etc. It was discussed to death.

Where is the safety compromised?
Perhaps you should go to the SOB forum and ask...? Again, itís isnít just about the ability of a TV to pull a trailer of any weight, bono. And please remember, most of us here have been towing Airstreams for quite some time.

Iím done.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:43 AM   #84
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I know my post is "devil's advocate" but I want to point out something. The VW can tow, and, has power; however, all the specs go against heavier loads. First, the final drive is 3.21 with final gears of 0.83 and 1.0. The cargo capacity is 716#- (people, stuff and tongue weight) and a "pull capacity" of 7700#. This is a typical moderate towing machine. You would not be using 7th gear (0.83) while towing and the RPMs with 19" standard tires (29.5") would be around 2500RPM@70mph- around 700RPM higher than in overdrive cruising norm (around 1800rpm) dropping MPG and working the diesel low rpm loving engine extremely. This brings up questions about cooling, transmission, etc. Add to that the load limits and it is out of specs and a candidate for voided warranty no matter what you try to modify for such a load.

I know a few have already posted that manufacturer ratings are no count but they are required to test them to that level or use. We do not know the margin of error or final failure point but the ratings for towing are not just about frame. It is the whole vehicle and components- trans, motor, cooling, etc. Is it worth it to gain 2mpg over other options? I say no as, at least in my area, diesel is more expensive. Add to that Urea and that just about costs 2mpg difference. The Airstream is 10,000# with a tongue weight of 800#and, I can only add that my 25' has an advertised tongue of 860# but weighs 990# at the CAT scale with propane and batts. Just an FYI. The Touareg GCWR is in the neighborhood of 12600# while this package GCWR is around 15,000#.
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