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Old 02-16-2013, 08:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
What about a 4Runner with the 4.7L 2wd 4.7L V8 with WDH?

I currently tow a 2009 17' Casita SD that has a hitch weight of 420lbs. I don't use a WDH and only a friction anti sway bar. No issues with sway even in strong cross winds. If I step up to a 23fb and WDH it should work well enough for a few years. Hard to buy a used AS and new/used tow vehicle in the same year.

Thanks

Kelvin
I tow a 1971 Safari (4K lbs dry) with my 2008 4WD V8 4.7L 4Runner and a ProPride 3P hitch. This combination works fine for my needs, but I would not use it to tow extensively through the mountains. I get decent gas mileage when towing (11-12mpg) and the 4Runner is my daily driver. I just replaced the original Michelin Crossterrain tires on my 4Runner with Michelin LTX M/S 2 and stability when towing has improved.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #16
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Warning !!!!

Do NOT exceed the TV max tow rating !

If you do and have an accident your insurance will NOT cover you !

The lawyers will have a field day with you !

If someone is killed god help you.

When considering a trailer look at its gross weight rating and max tongue weight.

The TV has to be rated to handle at least that when fully loaded.

Better yet the TV should be rated 20 percent more then the trailer max weights.

Having the right TV will make towing easy on you and the TV.

Trailer Life magazine has a annual Tow Rating book online. Check it out.

Which trailer shouldn't be towed with the SSR ?
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:58 PM   #17
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The SSR has 400 h.p., automatic trans., 4.10 gears.

The tow rating of the SSR is 2500# and 250# tongue weight.

On paper the SSR looks like it could easily tow all the trailers, BUT the tow rating is not just about power. It also takes into consideration the cooling system, frame, suspension, hitch, tires, wheels, axle capacity and ratio, wheelbase and brakes, Frontal Area of the trailer and some other engineering voodoo.

"Which trailer shouldn't be towed with the SSR"

The 13' Casita Deluxe meets the tow rating at 2500# with 250# tongue weight.

The car trailer weighs 1875# with 180# tongue weight EMPTY. As pictured its just under the SSR tow rating.

The P/U Trailer weighs 1270# with 75# on the tongue EMPTY. It can haul 1000#.

The Airstream 25' Trade Wind as it sits weighs 4300# with 465# tongue weight.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #18
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So the '98 Tahoe is Rated to tow all of the trailers with capacity to spare.

The '84 Datsun not so much.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:21 PM   #19
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I'm going to try this tomorrow. I weigh 192lbs and my wife 160lbs. Our Casita has a hitch weight of 420lbs. We are going to measure the distance from the bottom of the vendor to the ground unhitched, hitched and hitched with with both of us sitting on the edge of the rear door opening. I'll get a camera and take shots of each with a yard stick along the side. I remember measuring the distance with the trailer hitched and it came down 2 inches but the 4Runner rear seems to ride high anyway. It will be interesting to see way another 350lbs will do.

So the hitch weight for the 2013 23FB is 467lb in the Airstream brochure and 720lbs for the 23D. What will the actual tongue weight be for a 23D?

Kelvin
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #20
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You are better off taking the truck and Casita to a weigh station to get accurate weight measurements.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:57 PM   #21
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Yesterday my wife and I went to our storage site to measure the affect of loading up the hitch of our 2005 4Runner 2wd SR5 4.7L V8 using the weight of our 2009 17' Casita and our body weight. I backed up the 4Runner under the Casita's coupler. The 4Runner has a full tank of gas and I have my two plastic bins that contain my water hoses, sewer hose supports, Lynx blocks, various bits and pieces for water and electrical connection. The other bin has my green grass rug and a tire lug cross wrench.

First measured the distance from the ground through the wheel hub to the bottom of the vendor lip. About 35 1/8"

The I lowered the Casita onto the hitch. Approximate weight is 420lbs. One propane tank is full and the other is probably 75% full. The Casita has two 20lb tanks. The 25 gallon holding tanks is behind the single axle and is empty. The 32 gallon gray and 15 gallon black is empty and the 6 gallon water heater is empty. The single batter is in a compartment near the rear bumper. I wouldn't be surprised in the hitch weigh is greater than 420lbs at this time. The fender dropped from 35 1/8" to 33 7/8".

Then I had my wife stand on the hitch. Another 160 lbs. The distance to the fender is 33 1/2".

Then I set the camera up on a tripod, set it on the 10 second timer and ran and got on the hitch along with my wife to add my 195 lbs. Examining the photo the measurement was 33". So the the 4Runner sinks about 2 1/8" on the rear when about 775 lbs is on the hitch.

Today I went to a CAT scale solo with almost a full tank. With me out of the 4Runner the results are compared to GAWR:

Steering axle: 2220lb GAWR is 2495 lb (275lbs under GAWR)
Drive axle: 2060 GAWR is 3020 lb (960lbs under GAWR)
Total 4280lb
GVWR is 5490 lbs so the payload is 1210 lbs. The door sticker states its 950lbs so maybe this refers the amount of weight you can added to the rear axle since I'm under the GAWR of the rear axle by 960l lbs.
BTW, the label on the 4Runner hitch states 750 lbs for dead weight and 1090 lbs allowed with weight distribution.

So when weight distribution is used less than 275 lbs can be transferred to the font axle. If the WDH can transfer from the 800lbs only 380lbs then the 4Runner will be at the same level as when there is 420lbs. To pull it up another 1/2" which seems what Equalizer recommends then another 160lbs needs to be transferred. I'm not sure how much gets transferred to the front axle vs the trailer axles. I've never used a WDH.

So if the 23FB or D hitch weight is around 800lbs then left over payload is 400 lbs. Not much to play with. Is it possible to increase the payload a few hundred pounds using suspension air bags etc?.

Kelvin
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenritas View Post
Warning !!!!

Do NOT exceed the TV max tow rating !

If you do and have an accident your insurance will NOT cover you !

The lawyers will have a field day with you !

If someone is killed god help you.
Why throw this stuff around without substantiating it? No one ever has, could you kindly give an actual example?

doug k
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:12 AM   #23
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This IS absolutely true. The GVWR are published to protect you and more importantly the auto manufacturer. Guaranteed if the insurance company learns that the manufacturer specs. were exceeded, they won't pay. Also, if law enforcement discovers that you exceeded the manufacturers GVWR and are at fault for an accident, you will be cited accordingly. Take this from someone who was involved in an accident with a truck (semi) which was overloaded (exceeded the GVWR). Although this had no bearing on the accident, the driver (and company) were sued and are no longer in business since they had to declare bankruptcy after paying fines, medical expenses, collision and compensation to the involved parties.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post

So if the 23FB or D hitch weight is around 800lbs then left over payload is 400 lbs. Not much to play with. Is it possible to increase the payload a few hundred pounds using suspension air bags etc?.

Kelvin
Do a search on here for "4Runner" and particularly posts by Andrew T. Apparently, Older 4Runners were never great at transferring weight forward but you may see where others have managed to around the issue.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:08 AM   #25
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This IS absolutely true. The GVWR are published to protect you and more importantly the auto manufacturer. Guaranteed if the insurance company learns that the manufacturer specs. were exceeded, they won't pay. Also, if law enforcement discovers that you exceeded the manufacturers GVWR and are at fault for an accident, you will be cited accordingly. Take this from someone who was involved in an accident with a truck (semi) which was overloaded (exceeded the GVWR). Although this had no bearing on the accident, the driver (and company) were sued and are no longer in business since they had to declare bankruptcy after paying fines, medical expenses, collision and compensation to the involved parties.
Glenritas was talking about the manufacturer's tow rating rather than the GVWR. I'd agree that the GVWR is important and overloading a vehicle, whether with a trailer, cargo or passengers is something you should avoid. As to enforcement or liability, the rules relating to commercial vehicles like the example you were quoting are stricter and much more rigidly enforced than those for private vehicles so I'm not surprised that litigation was involved. I'm sure you could get into difficulty if you were seriously exceeding your private vehicle's GVWR but you won't be routinely checked by anyone unless it's glaringly obvious.

Regarding the tow rating, we've been around that buoy many times. It's an ill defined figure that can't be proven legally (which is why they're not legally binding) nor in cases of liability (because there's no standard definition, nor any technical data to back up the rating). There are no cases of people being prosecuted for exceeding tow ratings and there are no lines of lawyers out there looking to sting unsuspecting trailer folk with liability claims. If there were, we'd surely know about it.

Doug is right to ask Glenritas to substantiate his claims because statements like the those he's made are the worst possible scaremongering.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:34 AM   #26
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Comparing commercial operators' towing regulations and liability to recreational towing is like comparing the uptown restaurant's regulations to kids selling kool aid at the street corner.

We don't get pulled over by the cops or run through weigh stations for this. It is our responsibility to our family and others to use common sense when setting up our rigs, as well as good driving practices going down the road. Clearly some have it and some don't, and there's a lot more to it than a label on the tow vehicle or Airstream.

doug k
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:04 PM   #27
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Tow Rating & GVWR & CGVWR & GAWR These are things that should not be exceeded.
Those that do, do so at everyones risk.

BTW call your claims department and ask them if they'll pay off if you do and have a claim.

This is a sue happy country, why risk it all to save a few bucks.

No scaremongering here just common sense.

Set up the correct TV Trailer combo and be happy.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Do a search on here for "4Runner" and particularly posts by Andrew T. Apparently, Older 4Runners were never great at transferring weight forward but you may see where others have managed to around the issue.
So I searched the members and found Andy Thompson and looked through all his posts.
This first post was from 2008.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...tml#post568122
It interesting what Andy thinks of the receiver. The label on my 2005 factory receiver states 1095 lbs with weight distribution.

"Don't buy a 4Runner to tow with. It is a great off road vehicle but I use it as an example of how not to build a tow vehicle. Every spec on it is bad for towing. The factory hitch receiver is extreamly weak and will not transfer weight properly and the only way to strengthen it means removing the spare tire. As well the receiver tube is so short it soon strethes so the ball mount wobbles all over."


This second post is from 2011 and he has come up with some suggestions for 4Runner owners.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f353...tml#post966450
"Modifying them for towing is relatively simple."
1. If you have the factory Toyota receiver it is too weak and the length of the receiver tube is too short so remove it (6 bolts) and add an aftermarket class three receiver."
2. "When you add the reciever it is pretty simple to weld a piece of steel in bettween the mountin points of the factory receiver and the aftermarket one to strengthen it even more."
3. "Once you have a solid hitch receiver you want to use a Hensley style hitch on the Airstream. The Hensley is the only hitch that will give you stable towing with this vehicle."
4. "One other change we usually make to the 4Runner is we install smaller tires with firmer sidewalls. You will notice a big improvement in solo driving as well with this change. If you have 17" rims we change to P235/65R x 17" XL tires. If you have 18's We use a 235/60R x 18" XL (extra load) tires. The computer can be recalibrated so the speedometer still reads properly. These tires also give you more power and a litte better fuel economy."

"With these changes you can tow a 27 or 28' as easily as the 25'. In fact I think the 28 may be a touch more stable than the 25"

I'm not sure you have to do all this for a 23'. I could get an after market hitch and have supports welded but I don't want to loose my spare tire and I can't thrust anyone around me to know how best to weld on extra supports.

Kelvin
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