Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-05-2018, 04:48 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
2019 23' International
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 63
TV Tow Capacity Include 2 (average) Adults?

I was just at the Airstream dealer in washington and i am having max capacity tow weight for the TV. The salesman said that the manufacture (jeep) factors in to the 3500 max tow capacity 2 avg adults. In my house thats 280 total my wife and me.
So my question is, is that true. He asked two other sales people on the floor in front of me and they were like "yep 2 avg adults" so i just want your guys input.

I am just being very tight on my weight spread sheet for the sport 16 and my jeeps 3500 towing capacity so if i can take the 280 pounds out for my wife and my self that would be a nice buffer as fully loaded we are close to the max with gear food and tools etc
thanks

Brad
__________________

Bradley G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 05:14 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,353
From the 2018 Grand Cherokee Manual:

Payload
The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load
weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the driver,
all passengers, options and cargo.

and

NOTE: The trailer tongue weight must be considered as
part of the combined weight of occupants and cargo, and
should never exceed the weight referenced on the Tire and
Loading Information placard. Refer to “Tires” in “Servicing
And Maintenance” for further information. The addition of
passengers and cargo may require reducing trailer tongue
load and Gross Trailer Weight (GTW).

My interpretation of this is that Gross Trailer Weight is the maximum trailer that the vehicle could tow when properly equipped with no passengers or cargo in the vehicle. When considering the Payload specification for the tow vehicle one must also include the tongue weight, but it should not be counted twice, i.e. it could be subtracted from the trailer weight when considering the maximum tow.

All this math should give you an idea of how you rank compared to the specifications but the proof of the pudding is to weigh the combination to verify it. A weight distribution hitch may be required to ensure that the rear axle weight is within the axle GAWR limitation.

In short, no, it does not appear, at least for the 2018 Grand Cherokee, that the towing capacity includes the weight of driver and passengers.

Look in your manual for what applies to your vehicle, and look at the door label for the payload specifications.

My opinion only, others will probably advise differently.

Al
__________________

__________________

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"

Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
2002 Classic 30 Slideout
S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
2001 Safari 25 RB Twin (Gone, but not forgotten)
WBCCI 1322, TAC FL-39, AIR 82265

Al and Missy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 06:14 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar

 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Austin (winter) Lincoln MT (summer) , Texas & Montana
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,587
Payload is listed on "EACH" vehicle door...typically, it will say:
"The combined weight including passengers and cargo should never exceed xxxxl lbs "...see picture. That means passengers, cargo in the bed, and also your tongue weight. Don't listen to the sales guys; they rarely know this is the bible. This is the legal max load from MFG:...you really don't want to exceed it should you get in an accident and they check.

Tow capacity can be much higher per vehicle...many vehicles have high tow capability...it's the Payload that is also very important that gets overlooked, or ignored...mistakes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Payload sticker example 2018 Denali.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	334.7 KB
ID:	310208  
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer in Lincoln, MT- Winter in Austin, TX
gypsydad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 06:08 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
2012 19' International
Southeastern MI , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley G View Post
I was just at the Airstream dealer in washington and i am having max capacity tow weight for the TV. The salesman said that the manufacture (jeep) factors in to the 3500 max tow capacity 2 avg adults. In my house thats 280 total my wife and me.
So my question is, is that true. He asked two other sales people on the floor in front of me and they were like "yep 2 avg adults" so i just want your guys input.

I am just being very tight on my weight spread sheet for the sport 16 and my jeeps 3500 towing capacity so if i can take the 280 pounds out for my wife and my self that would be a nice buffer as fully loaded we are close to the max with gear food and tools etc
thanks

Brad
Which Jeep are you towing with? Lots of people tow 16s with Grand Cherokees and do fine. 3500lbs is not a GC though. Are you getting a Wrangler?

If I had to worry about 280lbs I would pick another vehicle. They won’t explode or crash if overloaded by 300 lbs, people do it all the time. But the location of that weight might be a problem.

Need more info!
Countryboy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 10:34 AM   #5
2 Rivet Member
 
2018 27' International
Jacksonville , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
First, the numbers are the numbers, as others have pointed out.
That said, I've seen the comments in owners manuals mentioning "two average adults."
Interested in trivia?
I teach boating safety, and see the need to explain the line on a boat capacity plate that states number of people, and the weight of those people. My boat's plate indicated "4 people or 475 lbs. Law enforcement, when doing a safety check, expect compliance to each of those. These numbers average 118 per person.
Back in about 1941, when the Coast Guard began developing and posting "safety guidelines," they sampled a bunch of adults, to come up with the number of the people, to make it easy to estimate boat capacity. The average adult, then, was 141 lbs.
I dare submit if the survey was take in our country today, the number would be larger.
Boat capacity plates also have a "total" for "motor, gear, people." That's the number I point to, as the boat doesn't know or care the shape of what it's supporting, just the total pounds.
Deeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 10:51 AM   #6
1 Rivet Member
 
Clyde Hill , WA
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 5
Calculating TV capacity

What the dealers may be referring to is the J2807 standard for calculating tow capacity, which specifies that it has to be calculated/measured with two average size adults (150 lbs each), a driver and a passenger. Toyota, Ford and GM have adopted this standard in their calculations.

I can't find any reference to J2807 on the Jeep site, so I suspect that they don't follow the standard, but who knows.

You can read more about J2807 at https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/no-go-for-standardized-tow-ratings.html

Jim
jimewel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 01:58 PM   #7
2 Rivet Member
 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Olympia , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 29
Towing capacity model (SAE recommended practice) assumes two 150-lb people. Axle loads are totals, just weigh loaded vehicle on CAT scale with WD active. Can be quite informative.
Pat.Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 03:36 PM   #8
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley G View Post
I was just at the Airstream dealer in washington and i am having max capacity tow weight for the TV. The salesman said that the manufacture (jeep) factors in to the 3500 max tow capacity 2 avg adults. In my house thats 280 total my wife and me.
So my question is, is that true. He asked two other sales people on the floor in front of me and they were like "yep 2 avg adults" so i just want your guys input.

I am just being very tight on my weight spread sheet for the sport 16 and my jeeps 3500 towing capacity so if i can take the 280 pounds out for my wife and my self that would be a nice buffer as fully loaded we are close to the max with gear food and tools etc
thanks

Brad
Brad,

You & they are muddling up the weight specs on this question.

Since you cannot put people into the trailer - there is NO passenger/driver factor in the tow wt. rating - that is simply the max. trailer wt. which you can tow - but that has to add in any fluids, propane, hitch (some are heavier than others, & all of your stuff in the trailer & hung on the rear bumper &/or A-frame ("wet & loaded") - in other words everything you'll take on the trip.

What the Airstream sales folks aren't telling you - is that all of that is NOT included in the trailer weight - nor are any or the options added to the trailer. Sounds like they gave you typical sales BS!

The curb wt. include a driver at 150 lbs plus all fluids full (incl. full gas/diesel tank).

To that, you must add driver wt. over 150 + all passenger plus any cargo in the TV.

Then you deduct that from the GVWR (& from Axle WRs for F & R axles), also from the Combined vehicle wt. rating = what's left is what you can tow &/or carry in the vehicle.

If you can only tow 3500 lbs with your Jeep as equipped, then you're severely limited in what you can tow, & that excludes all of the silver sink AS's - including the lighter Bambi Sport 16' - once you add LP, water, & stuff, plus added options. If it's their new non-aluminum skin trailers branded as AS, then you still need to have 500-1000 lbs for stuff beyond the trailer's base wt.

So do the math to figure what you can actually tow within the tow rating, as well as for the gross combined wt. & GVWR & at each axle of the Jeep.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 10:14 AM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
2019 23' International
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 63
Thank you everybody for all your helpful information. This helps alot. I need to digest all this info before i make my decision. Nothing seems to be easy

thank you all again!!!!

Brad
__________________

Bradley G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Average speed you tow at? John Community Polls 294 10-24-2015 02:45 PM
Classified Ad fails to include description Airhouse Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 6 10-31-2012 03:46 PM
How do I include a picture in a posting? dickwhite1 Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 23 04-10-2007 06:31 PM
How to include multiple pictures in a post! PeterH-Airstreamer Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 1 02-23-2002 10:36 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.