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Old 05-28-2018, 04:00 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tyvekcat View Post
Yeah, and you only have to turn 'Five grand' while going up !

Pass.

That would wear me and the truck out.
If it spins that fast youíre doing it wrong. I never even see 4000 rpm. They are designed to run at that rpm, it wonít wear them out.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by YippieKiYa View Post
Thatís a great overview, but it fails to mention payload capacities or max tongue weights. All of these vehicles are living with generally limited payloads when hitched to the big ASís. Thatís something the OP will need to sort through as they choose a vehicle. A 28í or a 30í Classic will put you in a spot where youíve exceeded (or are very close to) max tongue or payload weights, while still being within max tow spec.

Andy at CanAm is a great source of info to make sure the vehicle can handle the tongue weight. For instance, GM SUVís are max 1000# with WD, something like 800# without. They can be reinforced to handle more. Not sure about the new Fordís tongue numbers. I can tell you that the Expedition Max Platinum Trailer Package I looked at a couple weeks ago had only slightly more payload than my Ď16 Suburban LTZ HD Tow. We didnít even bother to look at 30í trailers, and quickly ruled out 28ís after crunching the numbers. In the case of the 28í and the 30í International, we could pull them, but the payload shrunk to the point of being impractical or unusable. Both needed hitch reinforcements as they were over the max rated tongue weight.

My point is that we love the big SUVís, but compromises have to be made and you have to look at more of the numbers to have a safe experience. At the end of the day, youíll be close to or over at least one of the three limits with a big AS and a big SUV. Itís up to the OP to sort through what theyíre willing to live with if theyíre set on a big SUV (or until the return of the 2500 Suburban).
Sure, it's good to be aware of those parameters and how you will be using your tow vehicle. It typically follows that a vehicle with higher towing capacities will have higher payloads and greater hitch structure to support the loads. Though it's also true that the higher trims and configurations of each model, will also eat into usable payload. So one has to do the due diligence to check the sticker on each actual vehicle.

Personally, I'm not as concerned about payload capacity as most. Most of the time, it's due to the suspension springs fitted. As spring rate is the primary dictator or load support. Too much spring rate on a stock unladen vehicle, results in ride harshness.

Springs are an easy thing to augment or change. And one can gain significant additional payload capacities from it.

I agree with you that hitch structure is also a concern. Especially on those vehicle that are unibody. I personally wouldn't opt for that type of vehicle for heavier loads as structural fatigue is a concern for long term durability when at the upper end of the capacities.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by gr.austin View Post
Unfortunately the towing capacity is never the issue. A bicycle can tow an Airstream. It is the payload that is the killer. A F150 can have a higher payload than a F250. Say what? Yes, a stripped F150 can have a payload of over 2300# and the loaded (all the bells and whistles) F250 can only have a payload of 1900#. The only place the trucks payload is published is on the tire pressure sticker on the door column.


Don't do what I did. Think all F250's can pull a Classic 30'. They can pull but not stop. My F250 with a payload of 1956# has a tongue weight of 1250 (fully loaded with food, water, and all the stuff you need in the trailer) Trailer weight is 8600# with 15% tonque weight. Now my wife and I weigh 400#, Stuff in the backseat, maps, audio CDs, Books on audio, umbrellas, flashlights, and a lot of misc things you might need 50#. This brings the total payload to 1700#. I have a cap enclosure over the bed of the truck that weights 300#. What a blunder I made $72,000 down the drain. I can't even put 2 empty suitcases in the bed of the truck. The tires on the truck are overloaded as are the breaks. What do I do with the folding chairs and table, the grill, the propane, fishing gear, bicycles, emergency tools, i am illegal all the time until I buy that 1 ton F350. Don't be a fool like I was and buy a tow vehicle just because it can pull the load. Make sure the breaks and tires and axles are up to the job as well. (The F350 cost only $600 more than the F250).
Happy Streaming..
..
I have no idea where you got your F- 250 information but you are dead wrong on every issue you cited. FYI I have a 2017 F-250 with the 6.7 diesel pulling a 2017 30' Classic. It's a Lariat Ultimate with all the bells and whistles including a Sunroof and Panoramic Window. Payload is 2,300 Lbs with the 6' + bed and E rated tires. The Truck is a towing monster at 920 lb tourque. So are the brakes which I only need to use sparingly because of the engine break. I upgraded from a very capable F-150 but there is no comparison. I will never go back to a smaller TV.
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:46 AM   #18
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Being inclined to the K.I.S.S. approach, I'd be driving a 3/4 or 1 ton crew cab 4x4 if I were pulling a Classic.

Currently I drive a '17 F250 crew cab 4x4 that has 3,100 pounds of cargo capacity.......NICE!
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:06 AM   #19
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Quote "I don't know what year your F-250 is but, for what it's worth, the current F250/F350 have identical brakes with 14.29" rotors front and rear. The same E rated tires are also used on both models. The main difference between the two is the number of leaf springs at the rear. At least with regard to the late model Super Duty trucks, an upgrade to the rear springs could put an F250 on a par, payload wise, with an F350 especially if the F250 were equipped with the max tow package which includes the larger rear differential from the F350. It would be a lot cheaper than buying a new truck!"



You are right. But my 2016 F250 Platinum is the last issue of the Steel Body. The Aluminum Body did produce the extra 400#s payload. My point trying to be made is the STICKER on the door column is the only place the payload is identified. Not in the brochure, not on the internet no place else. Every truck is different. You can't say ALL F250 can handle 2300#s.

As far as the axles I really don't know about the F350 but I do know that my rear axle rated at about 6100#s is overloaded. The tires do have extra capacity and with a little more air they are fine. Brakes I don't know, but if they can handle the 3000#+ load of the F350 then the axles must be different.


The cost of changing the springs from a Ford Garage was $2200. But changing the springs does not increase the payload. It only improves the handling/ride.


The important thing here is to know what you need and make sure the tow vehicle is rated for that.



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Old 05-29-2018, 06:06 AM   #20
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Hi

If you are worried about the manufacturer's payload number ... diesel may not be the way you want to go. It's a heavier drive train and that nukes their payload calculation. My F-250 has the same payload numbers as a F-350. These days there is really no difference between the two models. They just decide at some point to slap a different badge on them.

Can you go to a dually on a 350 and pump up the numbers. At that point you have a very different vehicle. It's got a whole new list of compromises associated with it.

The same nonsense happens on the F-150 / F-250 divide point. They seem to have a "big" F-150 with the same numbers on it as the bottom end F-250. Marketing has a wonderful time with it. Price wise, just like the F-250 / F-350 divide .... pretty much the same money.

Keep in mind that all this applies to the "new" F series trucks. We're talking about the aluminum body post-redesign lineup. Things moved around a bit before the aluminum era, but really this is all post-aluminum stuff. They had to do some major work to get the new bodies functional. That gave the 150 / 250 / 350 the same stuff in a lot of areas.

Bob
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:18 AM   #21
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I have a 2017 F350 srw Diesel and tow a 17 Classic, my payload is 3555lbs. The only way you will get that kind of payload in a F250 is with a gas model.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:10 AM   #22
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Hi

Indeed none of these models come in only one "size" anymore. You can boost the springs through multiple steps on all of them. Toss in this or that option and the axle ratings change even on the same model. About the only way to be *sure* of what any individual version is rated at is to check the real sticker on one set up exactly the way you want it.

Bob
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by majorairhead View Post
Being inclined to the K.I.S.S. approach, I'd be driving a 3/4 or 1 ton crew cab 4x4 if I were pulling a Classic.

Currently I drive a '17 F250 crew cab 4x4 that has 3,100 pounds of cargo capacity.......NICE!
So I gave up 800 lbs for my bells and whistles and the diesel. Ouch, however it works for me. My payload including 1,040 lbs tongue weight typically runs around 1,900 lbs total so it works for me just fine. That was the main reason I had to give up my much beloved F-150 Platinum Eco with only a 1,560 lbs payload. It became a tail wagging the dog situation with the 30' Classic.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j View Post
I have a 2017 Classic. I also have a RAM 2500 and wish I would have gone with the 3500. My bad. Iím ok and well within the limits but itís just me and two small dogs. I travel very lite, no bikes, no generator, no extra stuff, no cap, no bed rack, nothing.
Everyone has their own opinions on TV so only you will be able to decide what you want to do with your money. Pulling the Classic is a breeze, you just want to make sure you have the right brakes.
Funny. I have a RAM 3500 CTD CC std bed and wish I bought a RAM 2500 CTD ext cab long bed.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:16 PM   #25
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Sometimes I wonder if the massive discussions on tow vehicles are related to the perceived need for a different tow vehicle from what someone is running. Maybe its a dissatisfaction thing, or a 'want something different, but not sure what?
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by gr.austin View Post


Don't do what I did. Think all F250's can pull a Classic 30'. They can pull but not stop. My F250 with a payload of 1956# has a tongue weight of 1250 (fully loaded with food, water, and all the stuff you need in the trailer) Trailer weight is 8600# with 15% tonque weight. Now my wife and I weigh 400#, Stuff in the backseat, maps, audio CDs, Books on audio, umbrellas, flashlights, and a lot of misc things you might need 50#. This brings the total payload to 1700#. I have a cap enclosure over the bed of the truck that weights 300#. What a blunder I made $72,000 down the drain. I can't even put 2 empty suitcases in the bed of the truck. The tires on the truck are overloaded as are the breaks. What do I do with the folding chairs and table, the grill, the propane, fishing gear, bicycles, emergency tools, i am illegal all the time until I buy that 1 ton F350. Don't be a fool like I was and buy a tow vehicle just because it can pull the load. Make sure the breaks and tires and axles are up to the job as well. (The F350 cost only $600 more than the F250).
Happy Streaming....

My F350 has a GVWR of 9,900 LBS. I weighed it last Friday with a full tank of fuel, two people, fiberglass topper and some tools and a small floor jack in the back, along with a few gallons of oil and coolant and a suitcase of clothes. I have the long bed crew cab 4X4 diesel, she weighed in at 8,860. This only leaves me with 1,040 Lbs left for tongue weight. The rig weighs about 7,540 empty and with no topper which leaves 2,360 payload but as you can see I ate that up quick.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:27 PM   #27
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A further observation, my front GAWR is 5,200 LBS and I am at 5,080 with two people in the front seat and a full tank of fuel....not much of a margin there.

Another one: I looked up my payload numbers from Ford and it is 2,930 lbs. So even empty and no topper somehow I gained almost 600 lbs. Unless Ford counted the 38 gallons of fuel as payload, and maybe the spare tire? I can account for another 230 lbs....I was sitting in the cab at the 7,540 weigh. That would about come to the 600 lbs.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:12 AM   #28
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Hi

With the stuff we roll with, the F-250 stops just fine with a 30' Classic behind it. The bed is full of junk, we are in front with the two dogs. Total added weight (not including the trailer ) is between 800 and 1,000 pounds. The trailer runs around 9,000 pounds in our typical "ready to go" loading.

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