Trailer Sway

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Froglips

Wow, I didn't know I was an elitist. I went from a 2012 EB 25' to a 2019 Classic 30'. I tow with an F150. It is a lot of trailer. I was getting a scary amount of sway with the Equalizer I moved from the EB to the Classic. I tried everything. Yea, the Pro-Pride was $3000 (not $6000) but it stopped the sway dead in its tracks. For my rig it is a Godsend.

I tow a 30' Classic without a Pro Pride hitch and I never experience any sway whatsoever under any conditions.
Uncontrolled Sway causing an accident is a myth in any event.
When it does occur it is driver induced and no hitch will ever prevent that.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I tow a 30' Classic without a Pro Pride hitch and I never experience any sway whatsoever under any conditions.
Uncontrolled Sway causing an accident is a myth in any event.
When it does occur it is driver induced and no hitch will ever prevent that.

It's all the fault of the driver?...I'm glad that's just an opinion and NOT a fact. 🤓
Just plain dum.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[Wconley]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

When it does occur it is driver induced and no hitch will ever prevent that.

In the end analysis this is actually more correct than not. I taught high performance driving for almost 20 years and our collective motto was:

“Getting hit by a meteor is an accident, everything else is driver’s error.”

Trailer sway is initiated by conditions and the driver’s preparation or response to those conditions. Driving too fast for conditions, wind, downhill grades, presence of sideline obstacles and/or passing semis in crosswinds, abrupt changes in speed or steering, etc. Not paying attention to the dynamics of your TV/trailer combination and taking this into account is part of that responsibility so yes, the proper installation of a weight distribution anti-sway hitch is part of that. There are a lot of good hitches out there for us to choose from and each has its merits you much pay attention to. Abuse of any of these can result in trailer sway and ultimately the driver owns it.

[pteck]

Sway is not a perceived issue. It is very real and physical manifestation of stability, or instability. Many countless hours in engineering are dedicated to system stability, whether in electronics, control systems, mechanical systems, literally every system known to man.

Every rig/setup has a threshold in the performance envelop that once exceeded, with the right environmental factors (including the driver), will be subject to sway.

WD as a tool, expands the stable performance envelop of the rig. Allowing higher speeds and additional resilience to external stimulants, before the onset of sway. Given a choice, I'll always take an opportunity to expand stable performance.

It's very possible those that don't want that tool never drive faster than the critical threshold in their setup. Much like European don't utilize WD, because they drive slower.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by pteck

WD as a tool, expands the stable performance envelop of the rig. Allowing higher speeds and additional resilience to external stimulants, before the onset of sway. Given a choice, I'll always take an opportunity to expand stable performance.

I would have to disagree with that. A weight distribution hitch removes load from the rear axle and tires making the tow vehicle LESS resistant to sway.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I would have to disagree with that. A weight distribution hitch removes load from the rear axle and tires making the tow vehicle LESS resistant to sway.

You don't know what your disagreeing to, but carry on.

[out of sight]

I do know. Think about it. If you remove all the weight and the friction force from the rear wheels your trailer is going to push your tow vehicle around. You will now need to install sway control devices to keep the sway under control.

[DKB_SATX]

No one ever actually does this on the road, but they sure do imagine...

[rmkrum]

And, if you don’t have the right load on the front axle, you can’t steer the rig. Proper FALR is part and parcel of WD setup.

I cannot imagine a scenario where any WD hitch could take enough load off a rear axle to reduce rear axle loading enough to “...push your tow vehicle around.”

The entire point of WD hitches is to get axle loading across the entire rig to a condition that allows appropriate axle loads to provide proper steering, braking, and control of the whole rig. That’s why a smart driver will weigh axles across a CAT scale and make appropriate adjustments.

It’s very easy to determine the proper loading on my rig. The front of the tow vehicle ‘porpoises’ if the WD is not set right. Once tweaked in for the load I’m carrying in the truck and in the trailer, it runs like it’s on rails. Smooth, controllable, and safe handling in both normal travel and hard-over emergency maneuvers.

[jcl]

That is exactly the picture I had in my mind when I read the comment about removing all the weight from the rear wheels. It was good for a chuckle.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I do know. Think about it. If you remove all the weight and the friction force from the rear wheels your trailer is going to push your tow vehicle around. You will now need to install sway control devices to keep the sway under control.

Why do you make up these ridiculous extreme examples? Why would you want to remove all the weight?. You are adding weight to the rear axle when you hitch up. The discussion is simply about not adding more to the rear axle than the value of the tongue weight as applied at the hitch ball.

If you have 1000 lbs tongue weight applied well aft of the rear axle, and you use a WD hitch to get 100% FALR (double what your tow vehicle manufacturer recommends), then you would have 1000 lbs added to the rear axle. How is that removing all the weight?

[out of sight]

I can only say that the more friction force on the rear tires the less you will have to worry about sway. Try towing without a wd hitch and you'll see what I mean.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

And, if you don’t have the right load on the front axle, you can’t steer the rig. Proper FALR is part and parcel of WD setup.

I cannot imagine a scenario where any WD hitch could take enough load off a rear axle to reduce rear axle loading enough to “...push your tow vehicle around.”

The entire point of WD hitches is to get axle loading across the entire rig to a condition that allows appropriate axle loads to provide proper steering, braking, and control of the whole rig. That’s why a smart driver will weigh axles across a CAT scale and make appropriate adjustments.

It’s very easy to determine the proper loading on my rig. The front of the tow vehicle ‘porpoises’ if the WD is not set right. Once tweaked in for the load I’m carrying in the truck and in the trailer, it runs like it’s on rails. Smooth, controllable, and safe handling in both normal travel and hard-over emergency maneuvers.

Note that porpoising is aggravated by the presence of wd springs at the hitch point. But I think that's obvious.

[mkcurtiss]

These conversations always come down to the same conclusions.....

There are basically three categorical situations that define the differing
circumstances we face as "Airstream Towing People".....

1)Folks trying to haul their Airstream with a vehicle that is too small, and
need a w/d hitch to try to compensate for the inadequacies of their tv.....

2)Folks with vehicles that are properly sized and capable of hauling their
Airstream without the need for some gadget to help their vehicle
haul a trailer that is too big and heavy for their tv......

3. Folks that may or may not have a capable vehicle, but their setup is
so screwed up, their trailer is not weighted properly, they made
modifications to their trailer without maintaining proper weight
distribution, and or, they have another issue that causes unstable
towing, that prompts them to seek some alternative to good
setup and proper hitch height, good driving habits, etc......

The positional arguments are always the same......
If someone has spent 3000-5000 on a complex w/d hitch, they will swear on their momma's soul that it is a must have for everyone, and you are an irresponsible jackass if you do not have one......

If someone has proper setup, and a capable vehicle, they have no need for
gadgetry to compensate for underpowered and physically challenged
vehicles, and they argue their point, but to no avail, because the
w/d folks will never back down on their position, or else they would have
to face the fact that they need a bigger vehicle, or that their setup is
screwed up in some way.

But at the end of the day, if you pull your PROPERLY setup Airstream with an ADEQUATELY SIZED AND POWERED vehicle, you do not need a w/d hitch. If you have a properly setup Airstream and hitch, and an Adequate vehicle, you will not need a w/d hitch. Its just that simple. If by chance you do have an Adequate vehicle and proper hitch setup, and you have sway, there is a problem with your Airstream, and masking it with a w/d hitch could prove dangerous.

It is typical at this point, for the w/d folks to start scoffing and making snide remarks about "folks towing on just the ball".....and "being dangerous" and " disrespecting other motorists"........
.....Conversely, it is the folks towing with vehicles that are overloaded, underpowered, physically challenged, and not capable of towing their Airstream without a w/d hitch that are the hazard. In a dangerous situation, where the bulk of a bigger vehicle is needed to harness the weight of the Airstream, and bring it into control, a bigger heavier vehicle will prove its worth, while the small, lightweight, vehicle will totally lose control, and possibly cause catastrophic results.

[SteveSueMac]

Trolls. Dumpster fires. Egos.

I’ll take “Things Not To Feed” for $1000, Alex....

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

These conversations always come down to the same conclusions.....



There are basically three categorical situations that define the differing

circumstances we face as "Airstream Towing People".....



1)Folks trying to haul their Airstream with a vehicle that is too small, and

need a w/d hitch to try to compensate for the inadequacies of their tv.....



2)Folks with vehicles that are properly sized and capable of hauling their

Airstream without the need for some gadget to help their vehicle

haul a trailer that is too big and heavy for their tv......



3. Folks that may or may not have a capable vehicle, but their setup is

so screwed up, their trailer is not weighted properly, they made

modifications to their trailer without maintaining proper weight

distribution, and or, they have another issue that causes unstable

towing, that prompts them to seek some alternative to good

setup and proper hitch height, good driving habits, etc......



The positional arguments are always the same......

If someone has spent 3000-5000 on a complex w/d hitch, they will swear on their momma's soul that it is a must have for everyone, and you are an irresponsible jackass if you do not have one......



If someone has proper setup, and a capable vehicle, they have no need for

gadgetry to compensate for underpowered and physically challenged

vehicles, and they argue their point, but to no avail, because the

w/d folks will never back down on their position, or else they would have

to face the fact that they need a bigger vehicle, or that their setup is

screwed up in some way.



But at the end of the day, if you pull your PROPERLY setup Airstream with an ADEQUATELY SIZED AND POWERED vehicle, you do not need a w/d hitch. If you have a properly setup Airstream and hitch, and an Adequate vehicle, you will not need a w/d hitch. Its just that simple. If by chance you do have an Adequate vehicle and proper hitch setup, and you have sway, there is a problem with your Airstream, and masking it with a w/d hitch could prove dangerous.



It is typical at this point, for the w/d folks to start scoffing and making snide remarks about "folks towing on just the ball".....and "being dangerous" and " disrespecting other motorists"........

.....Conversely, it is the folks towing with vehicles that are overloaded, underpowered, physically challenged, and not capable of towing their Airstream without a w/d hitch that are the hazard. In a dangerous situation, where the bulk of a bigger vehicle is needed to harness the weight of the Airstream, and bring it into control, a bigger heavier vehicle will prove its worth, while the small, lightweight, vehicle will totally lose control, and possibly cause catastrophic results.

Yeah but my Hensley equipped 14 year old half ton is sheer joy to tow with....

And heres a kicker, I have what were two near identical trailers, one a 72 Sovereign, the other a 75 Sovereign...

I use the 72 a lot, a whole lot. It's modified and remodeled, it weighs over 8,000 pounds loaded, full fresh tank, full of crap and ready to camp....

The 75 is rock stock, it weighs 4,900 pounds dry and empty, which is the only way I've ever towed it.

Both become highly susceptible to sway at about 62 MPH when towing on the ball. In fact their behavior on the ball is identical.

So, I have this old truck that I really like,,,, and my options are to buy a new one ton that costs me 60K, so then I can tow my trailer that's still going to sway at about 62 mph, OR a thrifty and practical guy like me can shop ebay for a good used Hensley for about $1,200, so I get to keep the truck I really like, and my trailer won't sway no matter how fast I drive or in what conditions....

Which of those choices are better for ME?

For me, the choice was easy, and I couldn't be happier. Your milage may vary, and your choice can be different than mine and that's cool with me.....

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Yeah but my Hensley equipped 14 year old half ton is sheer joy to tow with....

And heres a kicker, I have what were two near identical trailers, one a 72 Sovereign, the other a 75 Sovereign...

I use the 72 a lot, a whole lot. It's modified and remodeled, it weighs over 8,000 pounds loaded, full fresh tank, full of crap and ready to camp....

The 75 is rock stock, it weighs 4,900 pounds dry and empty, which is the only way I've ever towed it.

Both become highly susceptible to sway at about 62 MPH when towing on the ball. In fact their behavior on the ball is identical.

So, I have this old truck that I really like,,,, and my options are to buy a new one ton that costs me 60K, so then I can tow my trailer that's still going to sway at about 62 mph, OR a thrifty and practical guy like me can shop ebay for a good used Hensley for about $1,200, so I get to keep the truck I really like, and my trailer won't sway no matter how fast I drive or in what conditions....

Which of those choices are better for ME?

For me, the choice was easy, and I couldn't be happier. Your milage may vary, and your choice can be different than mine and that's cool with me.....

And what you did there was to apply gross generalizations while grasping for the conclusions that suit your predisposition.

I think you should kinda chill out on that, it's not a good look, and it invites social discord in the forum.

I can remember more than a few times when I was sure people were making a mistake, only later to have it proven to me that the only mistake was mine in making that assumption.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

These conversations always come down to the same conclusions.....

There are basically three categorical situations that define the differing
circumstances we face as "Airstream Towing People".....

1)Folks trying to haul their Airstream with a vehicle that is too small, and
need a w/d hitch to try to compensate for the inadequacies of their tv.....

2)Folks with vehicles that are properly sized and capable of hauling their
Airstream without the need for some gadget to help their vehicle
haul a trailer that is too big and heavy for their tv......

3. Folks that may or may not have a capable vehicle, but their setup is
so screwed up, their trailer is not weighted properly, they made
modifications to their trailer without maintaining proper weight
distribution, and or, they have another issue that causes unstable
towing, that prompts them to seek some alternative to good
setup and proper hitch height, good driving habits, etc......

The positional arguments are always the same......
If someone has spent 3000-5000 on a complex w/d hitch, they will swear on their momma's soul that it is a must have for everyone, and you are an irresponsible jackass if you do not have one......

If someone has proper setup, and a capable vehicle, they have no need for
gadgetry to compensate for underpowered and physically challenged
vehicles, and they argue their point, but to no avail, because the
w/d folks will never back down on their position, or else they would have
to face the fact that they need a bigger vehicle, or that their setup is
screwed up in some way.

But at the end of the day, if you pull your PROPERLY setup Airstream with an ADEQUATELY SIZED AND POWERED vehicle, you do not need a w/d hitch. If you have a properly setup Airstream and hitch, and an Adequate vehicle, you will not need a w/d hitch. Its just that simple. If by chance you do have an Adequate vehicle and proper hitch setup, and you have sway, there is a problem with your Airstream, and masking it with a w/d hitch could prove dangerous.

It is typical at this point, for the w/d folks to start scoffing and making snide remarks about "folks towing on just the ball".....and "being dangerous" and " disrespecting other motorists"........
.....Conversely, it is the folks towing with vehicles that are overloaded, underpowered, physically challenged, and not capable of towing their Airstream without a w/d hitch that are the hazard. In a dangerous situation, where the bulk of a bigger vehicle is needed to harness the weight of the Airstream, and bring it into control, a bigger heavier vehicle will prove its worth, while the small, lightweight, vehicle will totally lose control, and possibly cause catastrophic results.

I'm gonn'a snide 'ya...you are wrong, but it makes no difference to me, you are too far away to worry about it.
Just continue with your Ford E-350 W V-10 booom! and leave the us 'know nothings" be. 😂
A WD hitch 'compensates' for nothing, it's a tool to make the experience safer.
If you don't agree, so be it, the right to be wrong is what made this Country great.

Bob
🇺🇸

[smithcreek]

I was going to get involved in this, then I remembered, I have a life.

[Profxd]

Out of site is basically correct in regard to removing weight off the rear axle. If you understand the difference between weight and mass then understanding it becomes clearer. Tires need weight to generate the cornering forces required to resist the inertia of mass during lateral acceleration. A WDH reduces weight on the rear tires by lifting the mass that was pushing down on them. That mass is still right in the same place just higher. When that mass moves the tires have less cornering force to resist it. Most on here believe it’s the front axle weight that is the most important when the physics and PE’s says it’s the rear axle. If the application of tongue weight without a WDH lightens the front axle to the point steering is unsafe you have the wrong TV. If you take any TV regardless of size or class and try to use it at its maximum rated TW, you’ve gone too far especially towing these high yaw inertia TT’s.