Towing with 2017 Audi Q7 tongue weight

[DBinSD]

Originally Posted by KZGoodchild

snip—- having a trailer behind you that outweighs the TV is a recipie for disaster.



Be safe out there. And if you do not carry a chain saw at least carry a good Swede saw.

Exactly!

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by Silverbuckle

Hi Airstream Fans,

Need some advice on towing tongue weight. The Audi Q7 2017
has a Tongue weight max of 770 Lbs. The Flying Cloud RB25 has a tongue weight
of 837 Lbs. Is the only thing I have to do is Move about 80 Lbs. to the rear
of the trailer. I was thinking moving the Spare thats 20Lbs and maybe the
batteries. That would certainly be at least 80 LBS.

As a novice just want to make sure I'm thinking right.

Silverbuckle

Simple answer here is pay attention to whatever it is you think you are trying to do...if you must the Audi for whatever your reason is, find an
Airstream that has a tongue weight that the vehicle can handle safely.

If the tow vehicle is "out of specs", or the trailer "is out of specs", find a combination that will work safely......

You haven't even mentioned what you will be carrying in the vehicle in regards to passengers or accessories....

For whatever it's worth

Larry

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Rather than say that you can or cannot setup....
Go read through the topic on Tauoreg/Q7/Cayenne below & contact other Q7 owners on there:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...rs-134917.html

And also contact Andy Thompson at CanAm RV to talk about what can & cannot be done:

http://www.canamrv.ca/



Also the gas V6 may be able to tow it by spec, but the droning of higher revs on long trips, grades, headwinds, etc. - as well as less throttle response in merging, passing, & emergency etc. maneuvers, & slower on steep & long grades.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Great advice and exactly what we did before opting for a Touareg. Only VW May cause us to change vehicles due to the emissions issue. We love our Touareg for towing our 28 Eddie Bauer.

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by GMFL

I’ve said it before and I will say it again a tow vehicle should be made/manufactured to tow not Forced/Begged to. The Q7 is not a vehicle that should tow that trailer. Dry weight and ready to camp weight are two different things.

Actually they are designed to tow exactly that trailer. 7700 lbs is the towing limit. Lots of room to tow an Airstream. No begging required.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Ford recalls 350,000 trucks and large SUVs over transmission problem

The recall covers 2018 F-150 pickups and Expedition large SUVs with 10-speed automatic transmissions. Also covered are 2018 F-650 and F-750 trucks


https://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...mpaign=180406E

I guess those trucks weren't designed for towing since the transmission didn't hold up?

You might check your facts a little closer...it was a cable/clip issue; not the transmission, but nice try!
"Ford says that on some vehicles, a clip that locks the gear shift cable to the transmission might come loose"

[BobPG]

I think some one or some people might be thinking that a weight distribution hitch reduces the tongue weight. It does not reduce the tongue weight. It places a moment on the hitch connection to transfer some weight from rear axle of the tow vehicle forward and back. Audi doesn't prohibit WD hitch, as someone stated, because the front axle can not take the weight. Audi says it is because the hitch can detach from the vehicle. That would be due to the moment placed on the connection by the WD hitch.

[out of sight]

The Audi has a unibody construction and there is no solid frame to connect a hitch receiver to. So obviously this is a concern for the Audi engineers. A wd hitch puts a large upward bending moment on the hitch receiver which could cause damage to the unibody. It's not just the static load they are concerned about. When you hit a series of ripples in the road at the right speed the rig can experience violent porpoising which can severly overload the hitch receiver connections. They have to cover this with a large safety factor in their design.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

The Audi has a unibody construction and there is no solid frame to connect a hitch receiver to. So obviously this is a concern for the Audi engineers.....

It isn’t at all obvious. It is much more likely that Audi didn’t consider, design for, or test the strength of their standard receiver with this type of load, most likely because they live and work in Germany, where WD hitches aren’t common.

The receiver may or may not be strong enough in and of itself. The attachment to the unibody may or may not be strong enough. The front axle may or may not have sufficient capacity. It is all speculation.

The most informed answer to these questions would come from someone who professionally installs hitches on these vehicles for use with WD equipment. And someone who is using such a setup could provide a reference as to how well it works.

The Audi is a cousin to the Porsche SUV. When Porsche of North America wanted to set up their SUV for towing with WD equipment and an Airstream trailer, they didn’t call their factory engineers. They hired a shop in Ontario with a solid reputation.

[out of sight]

The Audi engineers are simply protecting their company's reputations by being extremely conservative. I have a similar tow vehicle with unibody construction, a Mercedes ML 350. I towed 35k miles with a WD hitch without any damage, despite the fact that I often experienced violent porpoising that would bottom out the hitch shank on the pavement with a violent shock. There was no damage, thanks to the large conservative safety factor. But if there was damage of course I would accept the responsibility for it, because they said I shouldn't do it.

[waninae39]

we have a q5 with WD and anti-sway. no issues in 3 years

i think the info in the q7 manual is from the EURO market. where WD is not an issues and the EURO hitches have so little weight capacity, the pull will never reach the Q7 limit

give andy a call at CANAMRV in london ON, he can give you the TRUE facts on this questions
1 (866) CAN-AMRV or
1 (866) 226-2678

[out of sight]

I would ask him if he accepts the responsibility for damage if he installs a wd hitch when the manufacturer says not to. He may very well say yes if he understands the conservative safety factors that are applied by factory engineers, knowing that 99% of the time it'll be OK.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I would ask him if he accepts the responsibility for damage if he installs a wd hitch when the manufacturer says not to. He may very well say yes if he understands the conservative safety factors that are applied by factory engineers, knowing that 99% of the time it'll be OK.

That is twice in this thread where you have claimed that the manufacturer of your vehicle (2014 ML350) doesn’t allow WD equipment. When you have previously claimed this, and it was pointed out that your owner’s manual includes no such ban, you then posted and agreed that they didn’t actually ban WD equipment.

Originally Posted by out of sight

That's correct. They don't address w/d hitches....

Continually repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it true.

[BobPG]

In my comment stating WD hitches don't reduce tongue weight I was just trying to caution people who posted in this thread that possibly they can reduce tongue weight to meet tow vehicle specifications by using a WD hitch.


Audi sells more vehicles outside Europe than inside Europe. I believe their manuals are written for the market they are sold in. To access the manual online requires the VIN number and I have noticed that the manual that came with my car and the one I can access online is specific to what is on my car and includes the hitch that is on my car. I believe what Audi writes in the manual is correct for the car it comes with.



The hitch receiver can be reinforced by a hitch company such as Can-Am RV and Can-Am RV will probably work with a local hitch company in the US if the car owner wants to use Can-Am RV's reinforcement design. Other car owners may want to go with the car as is and rely on towing in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications which also includes recommendations for max towing speed.



Towing capacity of European Q7 is 3.5 metric tons which is 7700 lbs. That is with the retractable ball hitch that has no provision for a WD hitch. That is the same tow rating as in our market with the Audi supplied tow package.



It is quite confusing for people to decide what to do when the car manufacturer is saying one thing and people with towing experience in the US say something else.


Regarding the comment someone made about poor braking with a Q7 while towing; the Q7 has large brakes and large soft tires that allow it to stop way shorter than pickup trucks and shorter than most other vehicles on the road. It is hard for me to believe that a 5,000 lb Q7 can not stop safely while towing a trailer that has properly adjusted brakes.


If you go to Airstream Europe site you will see that Airstream sells 6,000 max. weight trailers and their site includes pictures of these trailers being towed by what else, SUVs, not pickups. I don't have time to look at other caravan sites in Europe but there are quite a few caravan manufacturers and some of them manufacture caravans larger than the Airstream models.

[gator.bigfoot]

My Mercedes dealer is very aware that I tow a larger trailer than specified. They have never disallowed any warranty. They in fact encouraged me to get this trailer when I asked. To date I have not had any issues with the towing of my 30 classic in regard to the TV.

In a recent trip to europe there were quite a few people towing with trailers of this size with smaller TVs. But over there most trailers have a tongue weight of 100 to 150 kg, since no Weight distribution is allowed. But they also have roads with a much steeper terrain than here. It was not uncommon to have 18% grades. I found it surprising that they are able to tow on some of these grades and narrow roads.

[kbplatt]

I tow a 23 ft with a 2019 Ford expedition max and use an equalizer hitch with a customize shank i.e. more holes which allows me to tow level. I connect hitch with the ball and then use the jack to raise the tonque until the sway bars can be placed in position. Then I lower the tonque and all is well. Be sure to follow manufacturers instructions to distribure the weight appropriately.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

My Mercedes dealer is very aware that I tow a larger trailer than specified. They have never disallowed any warranty. They in fact encouraged me to get this trailer when I asked. To date I have not had any issues with the towing of my 30 classic in regard to the TV.

In a recent trip to europe there were quite a few people towing with trailers of this size with smaller TVs. But over there most trailers have a tongue weight of 100 to 150 kg, since no Weight distribution is allowed. But they also have roads with a much steeper terrain than here. It was not uncommon to have 18% grades. I found it surprising that they are able to tow on some of these grades and narrow roads.

Not to be too cynical, but really...ask your MBZ dealer if they would stand behind you pulling that AS with your MBZ if an accident were to happen...and your found to be out of spec on any of your MBZ "towing or weight" specs...I really would be interested in hearing...

[out of sight]

No dealer or manufacturer would ever cover an accident. They also would not cover any damage caused by exceeding their recommendations.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Not to be too cynical, but really...ask your MBZ dealer if they would stand behind you pulling that AS with your MBZ if an accident were to happen...and your found to be out of spec on any of your MBZ "towing or weight" specs...I really would be interested in hearing...

I don’t understand your question. Are you saying that if there was a hypothetical crash, would the dealer take responsibility for it? Why would they?

I think that after the initial sale, the dealer is responsible for servicing the manufacturer’s warranty, which generally covers defects and not intended use. A better question might be, if a part were to fail because it was defective in design or manufacture, would the dealer honour the warranty or would they try and avoid it (on behalf of the manufacturer) by attempting to pin it on an unrelated issue related to towing?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

No dealer or manufacturer would never cover an accident. They also would not cover any damage caused by exceeding their recommendations.

Fully agree. They would also not cover damage that occurred if you were not exceeding their recommendations. They should cover defects if there is a warranty in effect. Defects are not synonymous with failures.

[bono]

Logic applied by some people is sometimes interesting... classic question or even assumption is that the dealer will void warranty, if you tow above towing specs. First, they would need to know that you were towing above the specs. I assume that nobody who knows how to use brain would not show up at the dealers with the trailer attached or tell the dealer that he was towing above specs when something happened. Interesting logic...