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Old 06-30-2013, 08:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
I received a PM today (and I have read on threads from others) that their non Hensley/propride in very windy conditions or with trucks passing erc is not a problem (assuming proper install and adjustment)

What the heck are new comers to think with anecdotes that state the polar opposite? And often as such.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:37 AM   #16
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Cutting Through Smoke & Mirrors

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Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
im in the same boat, but with a 30' bunkhouse on order...ive read ALOT on this site about this subject.

In principle, I have no issue with the logic that "the trailer is so expensive, why cut short on a hitch"....

My beef however is that many many areas of consumer products do not follow a logical cost to cost-benefit direct correlation.

What I would like to see is a double blind study of hitches funded by a neutral 3rd party......drivers are blinded to the hitch (I suppose they would need noise canceling headphones as well to ensure proper blinding), and they would rate the experience and perhaps guess which hitch.

In school they spoke about for example not needing to conduct an randomized control trial on the benefits of a parachute for skydiving...not having experience with hitches and towing such stuff, i could not say how analogous that would be to this...but given the widespread equal and opposite anecdotes on this subject, such a study could help settle the matter....food for thought anyway for fellow science nerds
Here’s what I did to cut through the smoke and mirrors. I researched the matter and found that the Hensley (and now ProPride) are based upon what is called a “4 sided problem”. Basis that I fabricated my own “4 sided problem” using some tongue depressors (I happened to have many for mixing epoxy) and screw type aluminum paper binders.

In the following first photo my “Hensley” is in the straight position with the trailer tongue to the right and the tow vehicle to the left. The blackened area on the left is the center of the tow vehicle. When one holds the trailer tongue in the right hand and places the left hand fingers on opposite sides of the blackened area of the tow vehicle, WITHOUT EXERTING ANY LATERAL TORQUE, then attempting to torque the trailer tongue with the right hand only puts lateral pressure on the left hand fingers; the “4 sided problem” will not allow the trailer tongue torque to bend the “Hensley”.

In the second photo, while still holding the right hand tongue torque’d against the left hand fingers, the left fingers can still pivot the Hensley as per steering down the road or turning. [/SIZE]
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:48 AM   #17
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Uh...I don't get it...
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:17 AM   #18
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Uh...I don't get it...
I can't copy the link but go to YouTube and search for this: ProPride 3p hitch Lego model
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:10 AM   #19
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:13 AM   #20
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Thumbs up The biggest hurdle....

......with understanding the PPP hitch.

We all have used variations of the conventional hitch. It's function is pretty easy to grasp.

Users of the PPP can describe their experiences, but until you actually use one the benefits are still a mystery.

Ironically the first thing I noticed with ours occurred on an interstate ramp.
While turning in I glanced the rear view and was struck with the view.
The Airstream was staying almost directly behind the TV. Very little if any articulation at the hitch. I thought, "this thing IS different", if it's not out of line on this constant radius turn what chance does a gust of wind or an 18 wheeler have in moving the trailer around at speed.

I havent been disappointed.

Several times while camping I've tried to explain the Hensley experience to the curious. Not until riding with us did the benefits become more obvious.

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Old 07-01-2013, 06:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
I received a PM today (and I have read on threads from others) that their non Hensley/propride in very windy conditions or with trucks passing erc is not a problem (assuming proper install and adjustment)

What the heck are new comers to think with anecdotes that state the polar opposite? And often as such.
Many times you can see people rationalizing their choices by defending them on line. You see it in truck brands, hitches, generators, trailer lengths etc. I have no problems with somebody saying that they like something. I tend to listen more carefully to people who have tried several "brands" and report back.
I find it especially helpful if I hear criticism of one or both brands from a poster. It helps eliminate the "I have it it is the best" syndrome.

It is up to you to discern the difference between a review given by someone because they own it and one given by someone who has found a product that successfully alleviates a concern or problem. I personally dismiss extreme views in most reviews.

My thoughts on hitch choice?

1. It is necessary. You could probably tow a long time without any sway control and have no issues "if" you are lucky. I personally want all the help I can get with the luck thing. I use a sway control hitch.
2. Most (all?) brands offer a solution that helps control sway.
3. Some work better than others at reducing sway.
4. Nothing is going to save your bacon if you really screw up. I use the example of anti lock brakes; in a 20mph corner anti lock will help on a wet day if you need to stop and you are driving 20mph, if you hit the same corner at 50mph in the snow....... well you know what will happen !. Same thing with the hitch!

We switched from an Equalizer to a ProPride. I made the switch after about 6000 miles of driving on the Equalizer and we have about the same number of miles now with the ProPride. I have never used a Reese, Andersen or many of the other choices out there. Between the two I have tried, the winner is the ProPride, hands down! The trailer just feels much better towing with the ProPride. Way, way better! Way way way way way better. I would have never complained about the Equalizer, I only changed after listening to a large number of Airstreamers who said "you will not believe the difference...".

You wont believe the difference!
Bruce

For the uninformed ProPride and Hensley are much the same technology.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
Uh...I don't get it...
If you observe the trapezoidal geometry, the NON-parallel sides of my "Hensley" tongue depressor model PROJECT towards the blackened area, i.e. they PROJECT the pivot (yaw) point from the hitch ball to the blackened CENTER of the tow vehicle. The center of the tow vehicle can't be pivoted (yawed/wagged/swayed) unless the yaw force is great enough to literally skid all 4 tow vehicle wheels sideways, and if that is so you've gotten yourself WAY out of your envelope and probably shouldn't be driving on any road with the rest of us.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:37 AM   #23
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the lego model demonstration was fascinating I must say...the "other" hitch model he used though...that was a model without any anti-sway features correct?

Also, really quick point:

"Many times you can see people rationalizing their choices by defending them on line."

Exactly. But does this criticism not plausibly apply one way or the other?

Person A: did not want to shell out the $$$ for propride, rationalizes the compromise by assuming equivalencies.

Person B: shelled out the $$$ for propride, rationalizes the spending by assuming equivalencies.

I will say this though...even the folks that argue that the non-propride/hensley style hitches work just fine, do appear to believe the propride to be plausibly superior.....as in one of the people who PM'ed me, still thought it worth consideration to buy the PPP style hitch if I had the money to do so...

I just think that such a topic that could influence safety so much should undergo proper research to make things clear.

Would you advise that if the dealer buys it they install it...I am likely ill equipped with still to install such a hitch I presume?...although I do have tools at home and such to do alot of basics
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:46 AM   #24
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My rationale when purchasing my Hensley was that with $100,000+ invested in the assembly another $2,500+ was just small change to assure absolute control of the assembly.
That's a great point.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #25
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PharmGeek - you seem so excited about your progress - you've been planning this for a while and getting close to making it happen. You're doing the right things with research.

First things first - I have no skin in this game. Your choice of hitch doesn't affect me financially or personally in any manner.

Second - I'm a rookie too. I have NO OTHER EXPERIENCE to relate to so I can't tell you that the PP is better than all others in my experience. I can only tell you my experience with it has been outstanding. That's not too valuable to you - many people are satisfied with whatever they have and that's great!

Third - I'm not an engineer. It took MONTHS for me to understand what the heck virtual pivot point projection meant and why I should care. Once I grasped the concept that there was a MEANINGFUL difference between hanging the trailer on a single point (coupler/ball) vs the 4-box trapezoid, my mind was made up because in my order of priority, preventing sway from happening was tops.

Fourth - even with that understanding, my decision process is mine, yours is yours. Everyone's mileage varies. I am fortunate (today, knock wood) to be in a position to afford the hitch and given that it met my top criteria and I could afford it - "that was easy". As someone else said (was it mstephens?) going in a different direction does NOT make someone evil, stupid or wrong. Life isn't perfect, there isn't a single perfect answer for most questions, including which hitch, tow vehicle or trailer to buy - too many independent x-factors with intensely personally weights assigned differently by each person.

Based on my admittedly limited personal experience on the criteria I mentioned above, I would highly recommend the PP even at its higher cost. Whatever you decide, I'm not excited or deflated either way - it's your call and so long as you know why you're making your own decision, you'll be pleased. And of course , you'll drive safely and like all of us, will hope "the other guy" doesn't put you in a bad position. FWIW - I have noticed that non-trailer drivers are basically jerks :-)

And FYI - I had my dealer install mine because at the time, I didn't think I could do it. Today, I'm half-tempted to take it off and reinstall it myself and ALMOST convinced I could do it well. ALMOST! I'd probably want to partner up with someone who installed theirs as a reference point. I was my dealer's first ProPride and I do wonder if anything got list in translation (though their service department is excellent!!)

Ok - enough there. You're spending a ton on a new trailer and TV - the ratio on the hitch isn't huge whether Blue Ox, Reese, Andersen, Equal-I-zer or ProPride over the life of your investment. Be crystal clear in your own mind and you'll be fine.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #26
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[QUOTE= Would you advise that if the dealer buys it they install it...I am likely ill equipped with still to install such a hitch I presume?...although I do have tools at home and such to do alot of basics[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine the PP would be much different...
The owners manual for the Hensley covered the install very well.
It was pretty straightforward...maybe others will offer their experiences.

Steve,

Very good point on the R&R....

I do it every Spring after Winter storage.....40min.



Bob
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:53 AM   #27
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"My rationale when purchasing my Hensley was that with $100,000+ invested in the assembly another $2,500+ was just small change to assure absolute control of the assembly."

Respectfully, I find this rationale highly problematic.

The question of "can I afford this" is a seperate question than "does it work much better" or "does it provide a meaningful pragmatic improvement over some other hitch?"

I have no issue with the cost of the hitch...if I decide to believe that it may be more effective based on testimonials alone here on this forum, I can afford the hitch. If I chose to forgo purchasing the hitch, it would be under the idea that I still am keeping skepticism that it is truly necessary and that other hitches will provide "a proper safety margin for my family". Of course If I did opt out of the PP style, I would watch very carefully for any unsafe problems...and in that example..I would simply shell out the money.

My point is:

I do not mind shelling out the money if I am convinced the money is well spent.

I do mind shelling out the money if I think there is a risk of it being entirely superfluous.

Frankly, I am leaning a tad toward purchasing the PP hitch at this point I suppose...but I want to do a bit more digging on the subject.

I am wary of anecdotes, but it does seem clear that folks who have owned several hitches really *enjoy* pulling their trailor with this hitch...perhaps if I even assume it is superfluous, but that the pulling is that much more enjoyable...it is worth it..and then IF it is truly safer, then I will gain that benefit as well.

The construction of it does seem intuitively more up to the task perhaps...but being that I am mechanically rather ignorant, intuitions kinda induce skepticism...

Thanks for all of the input so far everyone...

Let me ask this again, how much should I expect to pay the dealer to purchase and install this thing? If I get serious about this, then I am going to need to consider this. Rolling it into my loan will be perhaps (for now) much less painful and worth considering.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post

I am wary of anecdotes, but it does seem clear that folks who have owned several hitches really *enjoy* pulling their trailor with this hitch...perhaps if I even assume it is superfluous, but that the pulling is that much more enjoyable...it is worth it..and then IF it is truly safer, then I will gain that benefit as well.
Back on the anecdotes eh, Geek?

The trouble is that no one ever gives any of these devices a thorough, independent test; there's just not enough money in it I guess. As a result you have to listen to what others say, their anecdotes, and see if you can sort things out from there.

I've been lucky in having the services of someone who has done extensive testing over a considerable period of time. He will admit that it's not independent because he sells specific brand hitches, but he has the best knowledge base of anyone in the business, I think, and if he says something will work then he's likely right. If it won't, he'll tell you why and point you to a solution that will.

From what I hear, Hensley and ProPride are the best and I've heard very little against either of those products. It doesn't mean that I'm rushing out to get one but if I was going to upgrade my hitch, I'd start looking there.
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