Towing capability basics.

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by dkottum

When the trolls are done I would like to come back into the discussion and see what we can learn from it.

Who are the trolls, dkottum? Anyone but you that has input?

All of the responses in this thread are either thanking the original poster or adding more information based on their own experiences or preferences. No different than your input.


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

[jcl]

Originally Posted by PaulnGina

Who are the trolls, dkottum? Anyone but you that has input?

All of the responses in this thread are either thanking the original poster or adding more information based on their own experiences or preferences. No different than your input.


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

I thought he was referring to the Chrysler 300 reference, whereby a recently purchased used vehicle with a failed rad cap and a cracked expansion tank overheated, and that is somehow relevant for any sedan towing an Airstream.

I'll take a sedan, or a sport utility, if the payload capacity is there. If it isn't, my first step would be to take less stuff with me when vacationing. If that doesn't work, then by all means purchase a truck. That is what they are for. But it is required in that case for carrying stuff, which is certainly a valid reason, but not necessarily for towing. The two concepts frequently get blurred, IMO.

I like the Taurus SHO that CanAm writes about, with a high output Ecoboost, and less tow vehicle weight to carry around than an F150.

Jeff

[rostam]

Originally Posted by jcl

I thought he was referring to the Chrysler 300 reference, whereby a recently purchased used vehicle with a failed rad cap and a cracked expansion tank overheated, and that is somehow relevant for any sedan towing an Airstream.

I'll take a sedan, or a sport utility, if the payload capacity is there. If it isn't, my first step would be to take less stuff with me when vacationing. If that doesn't work, then by all means purchase a truck. That is what they are for. But it is required in that case for carrying stuff, which is certainly a valid reason, but not necessarily for towing. The two concepts frequently get blurred, IMO.

I like the Taurus SHO that CanAm writes about, with a high output Ecoboost, and less tow vehicle weight to carry around than an F150.

Jeff

May be you did not read the thread fully. The jury was out whether the cooling system failed because of the tow, or the towing test failed due to faulty cooling system. Anyway, thats the only member experience with 300 and at a minimum should be taken as a data point. Calling people trolls for having a differing opinion is unacceptable in my book.

I personally have never seen a sedan/minivan towing a large trailer (on the road or in a campground). You can see video of any truck/SUV towing a large trailer up and down a grade on YouTube. I am yet to see a similar video for a sedan/minivan. Why is that? I cannot see them work anywhere but in flat, cool terrain, and used periodically for local trips.

[Jim Flower]

Hmmmm. Some guys in the city have never seen a Moose.

[Hamish]

Here you go. An SUV towing a large trailer. And by someone with a great deal of experience with Airstreams. His tag line is Airstream Life

https://youtu.be/Hmg3A5l9s0M


Shawn & Kara
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[slowmover]

How many of you have towed with both? I have, and going back 45-years. The car (1970s unibody among others) was better in every respect save payload, then, and according to Andy, still is.

A truck is NOT a stable platform, empty, loaded or towing. It can simply carry more. Everything else is compromised for that goal. 4WD only makes bad into worse.

It's okay from 55-65 mph operated within its limits, but not above that. Hitched to an Airstream it is the truck which will initiate the accident. The weak link.

All we have to do is give it broken surface roads and/or wet surfaces. A pickup is a three legged dog.

I use a one ton bought for business nine years ago. Spec'd it for longest life at lowest cost. 2WD for better COG, IFS plus rack & pinion steering.

My grandfathers luxury police spec '68 Dodge Monaco was a better TV. Even though I'd put that Dodge truck up against the similar trucks of anyone here for a test.

Physics of the thing is fact.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Hamish

Here you go. An SUV towing a large trailer. And by someone with a great deal of experience with Airstreams. His tag line is Airstream Life

https://youtu.be/Hmg3A5l9s0M


Shawn & Kara
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

Actually, my TV is a GL350 (same as the one in the video), and I'm pretty familiar with them. It has a very powerful turbo Diesel engine and is rated at 7500#. As I mentioned, I'd like to see a video of a sedan/minivan that have very low tow ratings do the same.

[Hamish]

Sorry, end of a long day and misread your post. I almost had one of a 911 towing an Airstream in the UK last year but couldn't stop in time. Not a large trailer but large enough. I've been in a sedan pulling a large Airstream but didn't have a chance to video. As long as the vehicle is rated to pull, and carry the weight I don't see any issues. I will have to set an objective to video said combo when/if I see one again.


Shawn & Kara
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Hamish

Sorry, end of a long day and misread your post. I almost had one of a 911 towing an Airstream in the UK last year but couldn't stop in time. Not a large trailer but large enough. I've been in a sedan pulling a large Airstream but didn't have a chance to video. As long as the vehicle is rated to pull, and carry the weight I don't see any issues. I will have to set an objective to video said combo when/if I see one again.


Shawn & Kara
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

No worries. BTW, some Porsche sedans have a relatively high tow rating. I believe Panamera is rated at 4800#. Towing a 5400# trailer with a turbodiesel Benz rated at 7500#, I have a difficult time believing a sedan rated at 1000# (or a minvan rated at 3500#) can tow a triple axle trailer anywhere but on flat cool terrain. A video would definitely help (The fast lane truck guys have videos of pretty much any truck/SUV going up and down a grade).

[Docster]

Originally Posted by slowmover

How many of you have towed with both? I have, and going back 45-years. The car (1970s unibody among others) was better in every respect save payload, then, and according to Andy, still is.

A truck is NOT a stable platform, empty, loaded or towing. It can simply carry more. Everything else is compromised for that goal. 4WD only makes bad into worse.

It's okay from 55-65 mph operated within its limits, but not above that. Hitched to an Airstream it is the truck which will initiate the accident. The weak link.

All we have to do is give it broken surface roads and/or wet surfaces. A pickup is a three legged dog.

I use a one ton bought for business nine years ago. Spec'd it for longest life at lowest cost. 2WD for better COG, IFS plus rack & pinion steering.

My grandfathers luxury police spec '68 Dodge Monaco was a better TV. Even though I'd put that Dodge truck up against the similar trucks of anyone here for a test.

Physics of the thing is fact.

Another thing to remember is modern trucks (2010 and newer) are nowhere near what trucks from 2007 where like. They drive like cars, super smooth, loaded and unloaded. Are much more capable on the road than ever before. Making them even better tow vehicles as well. Older trucks bounced around at the smallest imperfections and had rough rides. Any of the big 3 built in the last few years rides as good if not better than any sedan I have been in. They really are that good now.

[Cannonball]

Following post.


Cannonball, Deep in the Heart of Texas!

WBCCI #4387, Air #84080

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Cannonball

WBCCI #4387, Air #84080

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

What are those WBCCI and AIR numbers?

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Docster

Only way to know your trailer weight is checking it on a scale. It’s cheap and only takes a minute, but will keep you safe and legal. And yes, you can be pulled over and they can force you to stop and next weigh station. If you are over you can be ticked, and they will not let you leave with your trailer until an adequate tow vehicle shows up.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Always wondered about this, whenever I see those CanAm specials rigged 400% over the tow vehicles design specs.

Do you have first hand knowledge of this happening?

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by cazual6

What are those WBCCI and AIR numbers?

Membership numbers.

[Docster]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

Always wondered about this, whenever I see those CanAm specials rigged 400% over the tow vehicles design specs.



Do you have first hand knowledge of this happening?

Yes. It has happened to a family member of mine. He had to leave the trailer and come back and get it with his work truck. He was initially pulled over for a non functioning tail light on the trailer. Then they asked him to stop at the next weigh station since he appeared overloaded. He was pulling a double axle utility trailer with a diy pole barn kit on it. Pulling it with a Grand Cherokee.

[Ambot]

I would suggest a link to a summary of the j2807 standard to understand how towing numbers are calculated. If you are bumping up against max numbers in theory or practice, one should understand what the vehicle is capable of at those limits.

You can be within limits, and you may also have to accept 30 sec 0-60 times and 21 sec 40-60 pass. How about 35mph up the mountain? I think this is why people want additional capability in their TV and operate below max published limits.

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/tow...-the-standard/

So many posts on opnion and second hand knowledge. If you are stating fact provide a footnote to your source, otherwise it does not belong in this topic.

[bono]

Interesting, please share more details about this, I am truly interested... So they went to the weight station and what happened next? They weighted the trailer / TV, called the car manufacturer to verify the towing capacity of the vehicle, the max axles loads, etc.?

Please tell us.

Originally Posted by Docster

Yes. It has happened to a family member of mine. He had to leave the trailer and come back and get it with his work truck. He was initially pulled over for a non functioning tail light on the trailer. Then they asked him to stop at the next weigh station since he appeared overloaded. He was pulling a double axle utility trailer with a diy pole barn kit on it. Pulling it with a Grand Cherokee.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by Docster

Yes. It has happened to a family member of mine. He had to leave the trailer and come back and get it with his work truck. He was initially pulled over for a non functioning tail light on the trailer. Then they asked him to stop at the next weigh station since he appeared overloaded. He was pulling a double axle utility trailer with a diy pole barn kit on it. Pulling it with a Grand Cherokee.

Doc is 100%, at least in PA. I checked with a good friend who is a state judge. Tow a trailer not properly hooked up, ie. Brakes, breakaway connection, crossed chains you can get a ticket and if in an accident big issue. Same as towing Amy trailer with a tow vehicle with not enough payload capacity, it's against the law. Officials will simply check the sticker on drivers side door and then sticker on trailer. If tow vehicle is shown to not have the proper weight compared to trailer, ticket and park it. They do not need scales, they do it by stickers. I have seen a Dodge caravan towing a 30' AS, in PA totally illegal.

[bono]

paiceman - your friend is good a state judge. It would be great for the community to know what legislation your friend is referring to. With all due respect, ticketing somebody based on sticker, I would called BS. Just to give you the basis for this statement - my TV does not have any sticker information on the towing capabilities, payload information is inaccurate and in fact the sticker value is lower than it results from weighting of the vehicle (manufacturer is using the same sticker throughout the same model, regardless of the engine, options, etc.).

Trailer sticker? Trailers are being modified. The sticker information can't be basis to ticket anybody. You are towing a trailer with certain weight which needs to be verified and not a sticker.

[rostam]

Discussing "alternate" TVs in this forum is very similar to religious/political discussions. I am confident that even if the chief designer of X5 tells you that WDH cannot be used on X5, you would still come up with some way of justifying its use. Same thing for overloaded vehicles. Even if Chief Justice John Roberts tell you that exceeding tow ratings might not be such a good idea, you would still somehow justify it.