Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-05-2016, 12:08 AM   #57
2 Rivet Member
 
Milford Center , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by avionstream View Post
Opinions vary on so many of these things. Hashed and rehashed by the same two or three people.
I think this is one of the most useful bits of information in this thread. Anyone who doesn't know much about towing & is searching for the basics (such as myself) can read countless threads about towing on this forum, all rehashing the same arguments. If you read enough of them, you'll see that it's the same 5-6 posters repeating the same arguments over and over again.

I'm not saying that any of these people are wrong - I'm just saying that at this point, when I see threads like this one I skip 75% of the posts because I already know what those people are going to say.

Again, I don't know anything about towing. If/when we get around to this, I'll probably start from scratch and look at all available tow vehicles. But the one thing that keeps coming back to mind regarding tow vehicle size is what happens when people switch tow vehicles. Many people are happy with their minivans or cars, and have towed them all over the country without any problems. The same goes with 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks. However, of the people who switch from one vehicle to the other, most seem to go heavier. The most satisfied posters on this forum - at least from what I've read - are the people who have gone up to the 3/4 ton truck and have been truly amazed at how much better their towing experience has been. I know it happens the other way around - people do trade their giant trucks for smaller vehicles - but the majority of 3/4 ton truck buyers seem to be the happiest with their purchases. It's hard to argue with that.
__________________

__________________
DPRoberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:41 AM   #58
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Washington , Washington, D.C.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 200
Personally, I found the video made by the MB owner kind of amusing. He's taking a very long time to reach 60 on what appears to be flat ground. In any kind of traffic, most people would not enjoy that experience, leave alone on a grade. His engine is doing 2,000 rpm at 60 on level ground? My 6.2 liter gas engine is turning 1600 rpm under the same circumstances. 14 mpg towing on level ground? My best 400 mile average is 13.8 in Southern California and Arizona at 55-60.
And that's with a half ton pickup. I've never failed to comfortably negotiate any curve at the posted "maximum safe speed." And my 2015 GMC is quieter towing my Airstream on level ground at 1700 rpm than is my 2008 Honda Pilot, which spins at 2000 rpm under the same circumstances not towing anything.
Did you ever ask yourself why Honda rates the towing capacity of my "4wd" Pilot at 3500 lbs. when it can "really" tow twice that with a few jury-rigged pieces of steel welded to the bottom? Wouldn't Honda sell more Pilots if it advertised that they can tow, say, 8,000 lbs.?
Here's a hint: when I bought my Pilot, the dealer practically begged me to add an auxiliary transmission cooler, even though it was not equipped with a hitch receiver. It turns out, I later learned, that Honda had experienced a large number of transmission failures with the V-6 and that transmission--on Pilots, Odysseys and even Accords. So he was trying to get me to buy "insurance." Fortunately, by the time of my Pilot, Honda had corrected the problem, and my Pilot, after over 110,000 miles has had no problems. But I have never towed my Airstream with it.
__________________

__________________
DC Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 10:41 PM   #59
3 Rivet Member
 
Mountain View , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 203
Some people could find kind of amusing you trying to find a parking spot with your 6.2 liter TV in more populated areas. The same with you trying to travel comfortably with 7 people on board.

You are comparing V6 diesel with your 6.2 liter engine? Maybe try to compare V8 Mercedes GL with yours?
__________________
bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 06:53 AM   #60
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Westfield , Indiana
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
Those numbers are great. i will look at them more closely later.

What puzzles me, I saw some videos, can't remember where, I think it was something CAM, anyways, I saw what looked like a Chrysler 300 towing a three axel AS. I don't know if that was an example of what NOT to do. If not, how does a sedan tow a three axel AS?
Cazual6, FYI that was Can-Am RV in Tronto, ran by Andy Thomson. Andy set up our Ford Edge and it tows like a dream. I have towed with Ford pickups (F-150, F250 and F350). For stability and maneuverability, there is no comparison. I had V-8s in the trucks. The Edge would keep up at highway speeds and it does better than the 4.6 V-8 at 65-75mpg towing. Starting from a dead stop the Edge is respectable. This is where the weight (GCWR) and gear ratios comes into play. Once you are up and moving, wind drag is more of a concern than the weight. I have two trailer. A 78 Argosy Minuet and a 07 25FB. To my surprise, once I am up an moving, they feel the same behind me. And my gas mileage is nearly identical towing either trailer.
The big deal for me is handling and maneuvering. The Edge can turn on a dime with a 25' AS on the back.
Having said all this, if you need more storage in your TV, an Edge is not for you. Maybe a minivan is better. Or a full size van. Or a pickup. But understand you do not need a SuperDuty just to tow an AS.
__________________
DonDiego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 08:31 AM   #61
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,689
Images: 1
Towing capability basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPRoberts View Post
. . However, of the people who switch from one vehicle to the other, most seem to go heavier. The most satisfied posters on this forum - at least from what I've read - are the people who have gone up to the 3/4 ton truck and have been truly amazed at how much better their towing experience has been. I know it happens the other way around - people do trade their giant trucks for smaller vehicles - but the majority of 3/4 ton truck buyers seem to be the happiest with their purchases. It's hard to argue with that.

I use a three-quarter ton. Bought for business use originally.

Anyone who believes it better has one or more things happening:

1) Carrying more junk than they'll ever use; and,

2) Are "reassured" by numb steering and poor overall feedback that all is well.

In this line, do not make the mistake that "happiest" is to be equated with "best", as it assuredly is not.

Understand that a pickup is always a safety compromise in favor of carrying more junk.

Were I to see pickups with a good lash-up in my 2500-3000/mile average week, I might relent. In fact it's the least likely to be basically hitched well. Or at all.

Was northbound on IH75 a few days back, between Knoxville and the Kentucky line. Saw an SUV hauling a new AS coming up in the left lane. Grand Aero mirrors, extra short hitch and, surprise, surprise, an Ontario plate on the trailer.

Best setup I've seen in years BASED on the way the combo handled.

NEVER seen a pickup do as well (though I suspect JMorgan has his nailed pretty tight).

It would have been (and is) foolhardy to run as hard as the driver of this combo did were he using a pickup.

Were it Thomson himself I wouldn't have been surprised. Driver knew what he was doing (with a couple of caveats).

Somehow my grandparents travelled most of Canada, the US and Mexico pulling their their heavier than an Airstream Streamline the mid and late 1960s. Left the trunk empty except for a few folding chairs. Used a Dual Cam once that was available.

How on earth did they travel so well for months at a time? Apparently, a mystery.

A truck may be the default choice. By ignorance or stupidity is what is to be understood making that entailed choice.

58-63 mph works in that event. But one also next to never sees that either. Hopefully it's 300-miles or less ( but one doubts that as well).

Better make sure road and conditions are otherwise perfect. Assumptions about "skill" and experience" are really more about today's tires and those perfect conditions.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 09:42 AM   #62
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,070
Slow - I don't feel ignorant (which may mean I am) or stupid (depending on how that's measured I'm probably good there). I do tend to tow under 65 (even with the Michelins since the speed limit wasn't my reason for swapping GYMs) and 300-350 miles a day is in fact my limit and I drive defensively despite the horrific level of disrespect people tend to show one another on the roads.

I love the Duramax for towing my 27FB with a ProPride. The rig is solid as a rock. I'm nowhere near your level of skills as a professional driver, but you may be a bit heavy handed there on your assessment. Certainly that's your right - even if you're wrong 😀

Have a salubrious day everyone!
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 12:45 PM   #63
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,451
There are a lot of different towing combinations that owners are very happy with.

This is our third half-ton pickup, the soft ride for us and our Airstream with plenty of load capacity for six months a year on the road exactly what we were looking for. The fuel economy is remarkable and the ProPride hitch ensures absolute stability and safety.

Early this year at Jackson Center with our Ram 1500 EcoDiesel/FC 25 we had the good fortune to meet forum members SteveSueMac with his Duramax/FC 27, and Jim Flower with his Jeep GC EcoDiesel/FC 30. Of the things we had in common, we all were very happy with our quite different tow vehicles.

Interesting, of the little group Jim Flower had the smallest tow vehicle towing the largest Airstream, and the one without a ProPride hitch. But his Jeep GC did have full independent suspension and a hitch setup by Andrew Thomson at Can-Am RV.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 12:49 PM   #64
Avion Owner
 
PaulnGina's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol' , USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,776
I don't think I'm ignorant OR stupid (and won't accuse someone else of being either due to the tow vehicle choice they make), and we don't generally haul more stuff than we can ever use. We're relatively "light" campers from what I've seen. If we were limited to only flatlands, I might consider a smaller SUV or something like the Edge (I have always like the original Edge styling). However, to have the most flexibility and capability, I will always recommend a 3/4-ton truck for anything over 25' or so. That way, if you DO want to pack more than you could ever possibly use, you can.
__________________
"Every day is a good day.... some are just better than others!"
1987 Avion 34W
PaulnGina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 01:17 AM   #65
Stay CazuaL
 
cazual6's Avatar
 
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 418
Images: 1
My recent experience on my last trip to Big Bear (so cal) made me realize that tow capacity does make a difference. My Chevy Traverse towing capacity was maxed out and it was taking a toll on that steep'ish climb (the back way).

When I replied seeing a Chrysler 300 towing a 3 axel AS, made me wonder, sure anything can tow anything, heck, you can put a hitch on a VW bug I suppose, but I can't imagine how limited you would have to be. Any incline is where a vehicle of choice comes into play. Tell me if I am missing anything here?

Ever since my trip, and seeing this ad's about DiamondBack with ATV's on the back, made me want to get a truck with higher towing capacity upwards of 10k and up.

After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?
__________________
"No job is so simple that it cannot be done wrong."
"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege."
"Either I will find a way, or I will make one."
"Sweat is your fat crying"
WBCCI 9164
cazual6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 04:31 AM   #66
CLOUDSPLITTER Phone home
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,806
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
.........

"After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?"
Missing?......extensive mod's to the TV & receiver platform, (that do very little/nothing for payload).

TETO.

“If your happy with what your using…it’s adequate.
If other people are un-happy….it’s not”
RLC

Bob
__________________
"If your confused about what to do, whatever you end up doing will turn out to be the right thing to have done."
DJT

"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that it's hard to be sure of their authenticity."
Abe Lincolan
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 05:38 AM   #67
Avion Owner
 
PaulnGina's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol' , USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,776
You are not missing a thing, IMHO. Your brain is reacting exactly as it should when it's telling you "that's not a good idea".

I could modify my garden tractor to get my Avion 34W moving down the road....



Rear end and frame could be modified to support the load. We'd get going down the road in some fashion, but the pickle would be braking and any "hard" towing you might encounter. Engine/transmission combination would be WAYYYYY over-taxed, and the braking system is definitely not up to the task...... I don't care HOW good the trailer brakes might be. My garden tractor excels at what it was designed to do.

I know this is an extreme, ridiculous example, but it makes as much sense as some of the combinations I've seen presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
My recent experience on my last trip to Big Bear (so cal) made me realize that tow capacity does make a difference. My Chevy Traverse towing capacity was maxed out and it was taking a toll on that steep'ish climb (the back way).

When I replied seeing a Chrysler 300 towing a 3 axel AS, made me wonder, sure anything can tow anything, heck, you can put a hitch on a VW bug I suppose, but I can't imagine how limited you would have to be. Any incline is where a vehicle of choice comes into play. Tell me if I am missing anything here?

Ever since my trip, and seeing this ad's about DiamondBack with ATV's on the back, made me want to get a truck with higher towing capacity upwards of 10k and up.

After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?
__________________
"Every day is a good day.... some are just better than others!"
1987 Avion 34W
PaulnGina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 06:26 AM   #68
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 970
Images: 1
I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).

If you need sports car handling characteristics to frequently do sudden lane changes to avoid accidents, you should change your driving habits, not your TV.

I've seen videos of a V10 Touareg pulling a 747, or a Tundra pulling a space shuttle. I understand those do not mean they can tow those across the country, in public roads, at high way speed
__________________
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 07:27 AM   #69
3 Rivet Member
 
Thiss's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
Monmouth , Oregon
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).

If you need sports car handling characteristics to frequently do sudden lane changes to avoid accidents, you should change your driving habits, not your TV.
Well put!

Knowing to look far enough ahead, understanding how to enter and exit a corner, and keeping proper stopping distance are all important.
__________________
Thiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 08:49 AM   #70
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).
For your items 1 to 4, it would be silly to expect such things. But your error is in thinking that those factors are somehow limiting for a specific vehicle. They may not be. Consider a heavy pickup truck with a 10,000 lb tow rating. Install a 3500 lb receiver on it. Your combination is now rated to tow 3500 lbs. But what about your transmission cooler, your engine torque, your large brakes? Irrelevant to the 3500 lb rating. Now consider that the 3.5 Ecoboost can tow 10,000 lbs in many trucks. Install that same power train in a sedan with 1000 lbs less curb weight. Why would engine power then be a tow limitation?

As to your item 5, "road hugging weight" is a joke as much as it was when it was an advertising slogan in the 1960s. Spend the time setting up the combination. If you are relying on TV weight to compensate for improper setup, the battle is already lost.
__________________

__________________
jcl is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'76 Agrosy MH: Towing capability? MrJ Argosy Motorhomes 3 09-08-2014 08:52 AM
Subwoofer no work-y and TV capability TennisMan 2007 Safari SE 6 08-09-2009 03:49 PM
Shorewwod RV - Anoka MN - Service Capability TomR Commercial Listings 11 09-10-2006 05:25 PM
Increase Load Capability? RDM16CCD Axles 18 03-15-2006 03:15 PM
Towing equipment basics Craig Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 11 04-19-2003 10:36 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.