Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2016, 11:40 PM   #127
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,608
Towing capability basics.

Illustrated the usual marketing stupidity, IMHO.

Same category as a mass-produced vehicle making a "personal statement".

Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
__________________

__________________
KE4GNK/AE
'The Silver HamShack' (2007 International 22FB CCD 75th Aniversary model)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch
2012 shortbed crewcab 4x4 Toyota Taco TV with more antennae on it
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 01:16 AM   #128
2 Rivet Member
 
Milford Center , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 87
Fun fact: according to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, the death rate when driving an RV is 0.44 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles.

The death rate for all US vehicles (i.e. regular cars) is 1.48 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles.

In other words, being in an RV is about three times safer than being in a regular car.

Looking at it another way, there's roughly one death in an RV per 200 million vehicle miles. So, if the average RVer drove 10,000 miles per year (which may be a high estimate), then one in 20,000 of them would be killed in an accident.

If you only drive 1,000 miles per year, your odds of being killed are one in 200,000 - which is almost exactly the same as your odds of being killed by falling down a set of stairs. Funny, I don't see any raging arguments on step-related safety...

Source: Recreational Vehicle RV Accident Facts


I'm beginning to think that everyone's generalized worries about towing safety - cars and SUVs are too small, 3/4 ton trucks are too big, etc. - are all way overblown.
__________________

__________________
DPRoberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 06:18 AM   #129
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,607
Rather than searching the internet for facts to match our thoughts at the time (which is going on here), when we bought our first Airstream we talked to some Airstreamers and trailer campers about their own experience.

Varied experiencess that came down to many vehicles used successfully. Those who needed a good daily driver often choose lighter duty tow vehicles, those who wanted to carry heavy truck loads and the trailer choose heavier duty trucks.

There was no correlation between accidents and tow vehicle used, most trailer campers have learned through experience that a margin of safety is best achieved with slowing down for towing conditions. Some fifth wheel campers with big trucks had been in trouble, even pushed off the road by high winds. The only Airstreamer we met who actually rolled their camper due to high winds, downhill in the mountains was an F250/Airstream 28 combination.

We have had two Airstreams and three half-ton trucks. The best thing we did for the stability and comfort of our Airstream towing was the installation of a Hensley/ProPride style hitch, completely different experience in gusting wind and semi traffic.

The discussion centered on tow vehicle is missing the point without discussion of the entire combination, trailer and hitch setup and tow vehicle.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 11:22 AM   #130
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
Trying to get a handle with specs vs real world examples vs what people say.

Look at this post <--- click

This shows a sedan pulling what looks like a 30ft'er AS.

How is this possible?
Looks like a good setup. Not if you want to carry two generators and a load of firewood, or some variant of that, but with a light load in the tow vehicle, it seems like a great starting point.

The SHO uses the same Ecoboost 3.5 as the F150, tuned slightly differently. 365 hp. The engine cooling is designed for that power output. The SHO model also has more coolers (engine oil, AWD transfer case) because these models can see track use sometimes. Optional lower (higher numerically) axle ratio. The base vehicle weighs less than a comparable (super crew, 4wd) F150, so it has more power for pulling. It has performance brakes, which the stopping distances show.

That people are surprised by this being a very competent tow vehicle just shows how far we have gone down the "must have a truck" road.

I would rather have some form of wagon or SUV, for cargo flexibility, myself.

Jeff
__________________
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 06:52 AM   #131
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Currently Looking...
Westfield , Indiana
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
Trying to get a handle with specs vs real world examples vs what people say.

Look at this post <--- click

This shows a sedan pulling what looks like a 30ft'er AS.

How is this possible? I've travelled a bit, never been on a flat only road, at least here in LA area.

I can't imagine this Sedan handling grade both up or down. How would this sedan slow this down, how would this sedan stop this AS in an emergency?

So what does this illustrate? I just don't get how people talk about specs, about weight, power, ratios, etc., and this comes into play.

Please advise.
The first and easy question you asked it about 'how it can slow down'. It is often thought that the TV must slow down the AS. Actually, the brakes on the AS can help slow down the TV. The AS should stop itself. Many on this forum will say, 'but what if the AS brakes fail". To me that is the same as, 'what if the TV brakes fail". There are a lot of 'What ifs".

As far as power to tow, I believe others have addressed that it has got plenty of power/torque. It is not really about how much it has, but the ratio of available forward thrust to weight. CanAm RV/Andy Thomson is the expert on that analysis.
As many have noted, braking, torque/HP and load volume are factors to consider. But maneuverability, especially in an emergency is in my opinion a major factor in a tow vehicle. And I believe a car or mini van excels in this area, over the trucks.
__________________
DonDiego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 07:17 AM   #132
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDiego View Post
... Actually, the brakes on the AS can help slow down the TV. The AS should stop itself....
I hear this a lot on this forum. Do you have any data to support this? Say, 60 to 0 stopping distances for TV solo vs TV with trailer, where the stopping distance is the same or less with trailer? Seems counter intuitive to me.

I have a GL 350. It has huge brakes, but the stopping distance with trailer attached is noticeably more (BTW, the trailer brakes were recently serviced and are in great shape). I know some people have switched to disc brakes and still say the combo does not stop on a dime.

Not to pick on you, but this is one of (at least a dozen) popular statements I've read in this forum which does not make any sense to me.
__________________
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 07:34 AM   #133
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,290
Images: 21
Something conspicuously absent in this ongoing "I use a ridiculously under-rated sedan to tow and it's awesome because it won't roll over like a top-heavy SUV and it's softer on my delicate Airstream semi-monocoque frame" argument is the impact this type of vehicle use has on its warranty.

No way MMWA 1975 covers this. Not in my experience with dealers and warranty work.

http://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty...-warranty.html

Power:weight ratio is only part of the equation. That power goes thru lots of components between the flywheel and where the rubber hits the road. Chevy de-tuned the 496ci big-block in my old 'Burb because folks were roasting the very heavy-duty 4L80E transmission.

Sorry, but I don't buy the "it's all marketing to sell vehicles" argument.
Vehicles have operating limits.
The ratings are very clear.
I'm all for pushing the envelope, but when you're exceeding max limits by 300-400%, you're asking for all kinds of trouble.
__________________
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 11:34 AM   #134
3 Rivet Member
 
2007 30' Classic
Ayr , Ontario
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
Trying to get a handle with specs vs real world examples vs what people say.

Look at this post <--- click

This shows a sedan pulling what looks like a 30ft'er AS.

How is this possible? I've travelled a bit, never been on a flat only road, at least here in LA area.

I can't imagine this Sedan handling grade both up or down. How would this sedan slow this down, how would this sedan stop this AS in an emergency?

So what does this illustrate? I just don't get how people talk about specs, about weight, power, ratios, etc., and this comes into play.

Please advise.

I have personally test driven this combination. And it performs very well. Braking and acceleration are not an issue and neither is handling.

If you have any doubts take a trip to CanAm and they have several vehicles for you to test drive with a good selection of trailers. Believing is driving it.
__________________
gator.bigfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 01:07 PM   #135
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDiego View Post
The first and easy question you asked it about 'how it can slow down'. It is often thought that the TV must slow down the AS. Actually, the brakes on the AS can help slow down the TV. The AS should stop itself. Many on this forum will say, 'but what if the AS brakes fail". To me that is the same as, 'what if the TV brakes fail". There are a lot of 'What ifs".
I agree with you, based on our experience.

Our Airstream has excellent brakes. I haven't tried to stop the combination from higher speed, but the trailer brakes will stop itself and our truck at lower speeds. Easily. How the Airstream brakes do with a heavy duty pickup weighing 2,000 lbs more plus another 1,000 lbs of additional payload I don't know.

That was a consideration when we chose our new tow vehicle, less overall weight is easier to stop, accelerate and change direction suddenly if we have to. The lower that weight the better, the wider the suspension attachment to the body the better.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 01:58 PM   #136
Rivet Master
 
Wingeezer's Avatar
 
2005 30' Classic
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
I agree with you, based on our experience.

Our Airstream has excellent brakes. I haven't tried to stop the combination from higher speed, but the trailer brakes will stop itself and our truck at lower speeds. Easily. How the Airstream brakes do with a heavy duty pickup weighing 2,000 lbs more plus another 1,000 lbs of additional payload I don't know.

That was a consideration when we chose our new tow vehicle, less overall weight is easier to stop, accelerate and change direction suddenly if we have to. The lower that weight the better, the wider the suspension attachment to the body the better.
I "Think" our trailer brakes are ok, but never really been sure. Even without the trailer brakes operating, I can stop the combination reasonably quickly with the truck brakes which are pretty substantial, but with the trailer connected and its brakes operating, I don't really notice a huge difference.

They do work. If I manually apply the trailer brakes with the truck coasting, the braking effect is evident, however not as substantial as I would have expected even though I generally have the brakes set to max gain.

I'm pretty sure they are working as well as can be expected - I put all new brake assemblies on last winter (ie complete new backing plates and complete assemblies.)

However with my last (SOB trailer) I could very easily lock up the trailer wheels by applying too much gain - not so with the AS.

Could be due to the fact however that the last trailer had a dry weight of around 3500# and the AS is 7400# dry.

Wondering what other folks find with the effectiveness of their brakes?(Drum type).

The only other thing I can think to try is to replace the drums. When I replaced the rest of the brakes, I did not change the drums as they looked fine. No indication that they are grease contaminated. Maybe they are glazed?


Brian.
__________________
Brian & Connie Mitchell

2005 Classic 30'
Hensley Arrow / Centramatics
2008 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD,4x4,Crew Cab, Diesel, Leer cap.
Wingeezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2016, 09:16 PM   #137
Avion Owner
 
PaulnGina's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol' , USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,801
Brian, when I replaced the 6 complete assemblies on our Avion (which weighs similar to your AS), I adjusted the assemblies as close as possible without creating noticible drag. I cannot skid the wheels of the Avion other than on loose gravel, but on pavement the stopping power is substantial...... And I'm quite happy with that.


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored
__________________
"Every day is a good day.... some are just better than others!"
1987 Avion 34W
PaulnGina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 05:59 AM   #138
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Currently Looking...
Westfield , Indiana
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 28
Brian, on our 25FB, if I manually apply the trailer brakes, it will come to a screeching stop. I am wondering if it might not be your brake controller. I do know there are big differences in controllers. If the trailer brakes (when manually applied) won't stop the TV & trailer, I believe something is wrong.
__________________

__________________
DonDiego is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'76 Agrosy MH: Towing capability? MrJ Argosy Motorhomes 3 09-08-2014 08:52 AM
Subwoofer no work-y and TV capability TennisMan 2007 Safari SE 6 08-09-2009 03:49 PM
Shorewwod RV - Anoka MN - Service Capability TomR Commercial Listings 11 09-10-2006 05:25 PM
Increase Load Capability? RDM16CCD Axles 18 03-15-2006 03:15 PM
Towing equipment basics Craig Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 11 04-19-2003 10:36 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.