Towing 2018 33' Classic

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Airstream trailers were much lighter in the 60's and cars were longer wheelbase and heavier.

Cars weren't.

A current Chrysler 300 with driver and fuel is very nearly the same weight as a 1967 Imperial Coupe. The former at 120" and the latter at 127".

As to trailers it depended on what you had. Our families Streamline and Silver Streak TTs were at, if not above 7000-lbs for extended travel.

Full up weight was near to 13,000+ combined. Not much different than a F150 SCREW with a 25' from today from scale tickets.

As to AS there have been arguments as to the validity of brochure numbers. Lack of options, fuel, water, etc. Someone likely has a current Scale ticket.

AS trailers are heavier than in earlier years. So?

As to speed limits it was out West on the new Interstate system. Slower back east, except in the South.

Didn't lose any major components, but all cars were more maintenance intensive. One had to be serious about that. Tires and shocks plus batteries were an annual affair, for instance.

Most whom we knew (and observed) towed at 55 or so. Then as now, concerns about fuel economy and preciously short trailer brake capacity.

The nice thing: those incapable of budgeting for car expenses or could read a map weren't on the road. Trucking was mainly short distance/regional. IOW, what traffic was present was less, better-mannered, and the police took time to correct bad assumptions (not just write tickets).

Tee shirts and tattoos were nowhere to be found.

And, as we've learned with climate science, the 1960s (especially) and 1970s were a cool period. Summer was hot, but not nearly so punishing. Which sure made the National Parks easier to bear. Not to mention roadside picnics.
.

[Moflash]

Better reread your 1967 Imperial specs.More irrelevant BS?

[MarkFinATX]

I always cringe when the discussion rolls around to Tow Vehicles. Pun intended. My experience towing Airstreams is limited to the Ford, F-150. Mine is a 2015, SuperCrew, Lariat, 5.0L V8, short box, w/ factory tow package. Began with a Sport 22FB (you could tow that with a go-cart) and then made the jump to a Pendleton (7400 lbs., loaded). Equipped that with the Hensley. Love the hitch. Yes, there's a learning curve. So 385 hp, out of the box with 387 ft. lbs of torque. It's been a good tow vehicle. I do carry a bunch of junk in the bed (yes, even a Honda 3000i- if we end up bivouacking or boondocking I want that AC!!!) with an ARE tonneau cover. One of these days I AM going to get to a scale!!! But all in all it's been great. Nice comfortable ride, stable on the road, goes fairly decent up hills... no real complaints.

Then "truck envy" struck... all of the friends and fellow Airstreamers that had BAD (big assed diesel) tow rigs. Then it hit me! You GOTTA HAVE ONE OF THESE!!!!! 440 horsepower and a whopping 925 ft. lbs. of torque!!! Went with the Lariat again and I made sure it had the added weight rating as I'm setting it up with a topper and a bed slide. Will be putting a rack system on the roof of the topper for a couple of bikes, maybe a gear box. Recently got a nifty inflatable Kayak, www.flycraftusa.com It packs down pretty small but holds two people with swivel seats.
Can't wait to have the new F-250 finished and get out on the road with it. My wife has already claimed the F-150. Oh well... it was nice while it lasted.
Here's my two cents worth on the cost difference for maintenance- I've had good results with Fords Maintenance Plan and Extended Warranty. OK- pricey, I know, but for 8 years and 100K miles the only expense is a $100 deductible on any repair. Tranny, a 100 bucks, new engine, a 100 bucks. I went with the 7,500 mile service interval so 13 oil changes plus all scheduled maintenance. Did the same program with the diesel.

But, I agree with the posters that subscribe to the theory that these are just toys. Tools we use to go have FUN camping... the way each individual chooses to camp. Hope to see ya'll out there!!!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Better reread your 1967 Imperial specs.More irrelevant BS?

Weighed that car a few years ago with owner and full fuel. Fully optioned original beauty.

[paiceman]

Older cars were framed, not unibody.

Plus, if towing, and I've posted this prior - IF the weight sticker on the door frame of the tow vehicle does not list a CGVW more than the combined weight of the tow vehicle and trailer combined one is illegal in the state of PA. I have a friend who is a PA judge, based on some discussions a way back on these forums I asked him, he knew the answer, but looked it up just to be sure. If one is overweight one is illegal and subject to a ticket. Plus, if in an accident the investigators will or are supposed to check the two stickers and note the numbers. An F150 is overweight towing a 33' Airstream and a Caravan or some such passenger car is overweight towing a 30' Airstream.

It's all a personal decision. Good luck and enjoy whatever you do or have decided.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

At least with the crowd we traveled with, it was a lot more than just tires. All sorts of random drive train bits and pieces "went" a lot sooner when towing than not. Indeed it was a relative thing. You replaced a lot more parts on those cars than you do today, no matter what you did.

We have a lot more wiz bang gizmos on a car today than we did in the 50's or 60's. Air conditioning .. wow ... There's a lot of strange stuff that we all haul around today that didn't go into a base model car back then. Factor that into both weight and reliability and the difference is bigger still. Sure wish you could still get the big V8 option that everybody used for towing back then ....

Bob

[Moflash]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Weighed that car a few years ago with owner and full fuel. Fully optioned original beauty.

4900 to 5200 Lbs depending on options for a 1967 Chrysler Imperial.And 7 extra inches in wheelbase is significant.

[slowmover]

The preferred car of the era was Chrysler. All brands unibody (Imperial after 1966). Stronger and lighter. Other advantages as well. Give it up, MoFlash, you're floundering. Some others of you appear to be outside of experience. Are today's cars and trucks "better"? Yes. So what?

The legality of overweight is funny. Axle ratings and tire/wheel ratings matter. See what regulates DOT rulings in commercial service. Not an advisory about "towing capacity", etc. Who will weigh the rig after a wreck? Loss of control is always down to the driver. A ticket if warranted and that's it.

If the OP wants a one ton, have at it. If he loads the bed to 1-2k in weight prior to hitching, it'll work. If not, then something else.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by paiceman

Older cars were framed, not unibody.

Plus, if towing, and I've posted this prior - IF the weight sticker on the door frame of the tow vehicle does not list a CGVW more than the combined weight of the tow vehicle and trailer combined one is illegal in the state of PA. I have a friend who is a PA judge, based on some discussions a way back on these forums I asked him, he knew the answer, but looked it up just to be sure. If one is overweight one is illegal and subject to a ticket. Plus, if in an accident the investigators will or are supposed to check the two stickers and note the numbers. An F150 is overweight towing a 33' Airstream and a Caravan or some such passenger car is overweight towing a 30' Airstream.

It's all a personal decision. Good luck and enjoy whatever you do or have decided.

CGWR (combined weight) is not listed on the weight sticker if our trucks, I kind of wonder where the judge is coming from. Probably commercial towing, not recreational.

I have learned to quit guessing and use the CAT scale to verify our towing combination. Axle weights (GAWR) tell us what the truck and trailer can carry, the scale tells us if the rig weight is properly distributed and within mfg axle limits. We have looked up combined weight rating (CGWR) which tells us what the mfg believes the truck can carry and stop. GVWR/payload doesn't tell us anything useful when towing using a weight distribution hitch; takes us back to guessing.

We do consider GVWR/payload when loading our truck for hauling duties. However I think we may have been over rear axle weight (but within GVWR/payload) earlier this week with a load of long 2x12 boards hanging over the rear.

[pt.reyesfan]

We are quite fortunate to have three tow vehicles in the family (2 adults + 3 children that drive):
1. 2004 Chevy 2500 Suburban 8.1 liter 4.11 rear-end gasser (104k miles), engine and trans still in great shape), Prodigy P3.
2. 2010 Toyota Sequoia 5.7 liter, Limited gasser (52k miles), Prodigy P3, adjustable air bags.
3. 2016 Chevy 3500 Duramax diesel, crew cab, long bed, 1 ton dually, ARE shell. (8k miles), GM built-in internal brake controller.

All have towed our 2016 31ft Classic (with ProPride hitch in place).
Never drive over 65MPH.

Here is the Scorecard:

3/4 Ton (2500) 8.1 Suburban: [LIST]
* Does the job, but engine and trans are workin' fairly hard on steep uphills and downhills. Payload limited : Can't load much in the 'burb other than people.
* Driving Stability = OK.
* Braking: Fair
* Mountain passes out West: Fair.
* Downhill on the passes: Nail-biting at times, even in low gears (trans really revs up). Brakes get quite hot. Trans temp = limiting factor. Brakes = limiting factor.
* I love this SUV. No rust at all yet! It is dependable and is the perfect Home Depot weekend job and take the kids on an adventure vehicle, but I don't feel real safe on downhills with a heavy trailer. Does the job with the big trailer, but I have to take it really slow on the downhills, and a few times I have stopped to let the trans and brakes cool down.

Sequoia 5.7:
* Does the job, but workin' at it. Very smooth, well-engineered machine.
* Payload limited: Can't load much in the SUV other than people.
* Stability: OK.
* Braking: OK
* Mountain passes out West: Good to fair.
* Downhill: Nailbiting at times, even in low gears (trans really revs up). Brakes get hot, but they are better than those in the Suburban (less fade on the downhills).
* Note: The Sequoia drivetrain engineers did an excellent job! Believe it or not, the trans set-up in this gem makes the 5.7 liter perform slightly better than the 8.1 liter in the Suburban. Very impressive drive train! Does not labor as much as the Suburban. The added trans speeds make the shifts much smoother. I enjoy driving this SUV. It is our go-to tow vehicle for our 16' 4,500 lb (loaded) ATC motorcycle/kayak/bicycle trailer trips. (Many trips out west with this combo.) The third row of seats has much more room than the Suburban 3rd row, but the space behind the seats has less room (of course).
This vehicle is fun to drive. It is comfortable. Wish the fuel tank was bigger!!! (Without a trailer behind it, is a bit twitchy in emergency/quick maneuvers, but with the trailer behind it, feels quite stable when having to make sudden course adjustments.) Does the job with the big trailer, but I have to take it really slow on the downhills, and a few times I have stopped to let the trans and brakes cool down. [/I]

1 Ton Chevy Crew Cab 3500 Long Bed Duramax Dually:
* Does the job very well. I hardly notice the trailer is there (which is not necessarily a good thing).
* Payload: Absolutely no problem. We put 2 kayaks on top of the shell, 3 to 5 bikes, WeberQ-BBQ, LPG canister, heavy toolbox, extra spare tire for trailer, aluminum ladder, hiking/climbing gear, heavy garage-style jack, vacuum cleaner, 20 gals water, extra fuel containers, + 300lbs of other stuff in the bed/shell, and still have lots of payload capacity left.
* Stability: Excellent
* Braking: Great
* Mountain passes: No problems at all, uphill or downhill. Engine has never worked hard. Engine exhaust brake is excellent. My stress level on downhills is very low! (Did I say that the exhaust brake was excellent!?)
* Bottom Line: It's a truck, but a smooth-riding one than I can drive in for many hours. (Of course, the ride in the Sequoia is smoother.) The slight inconvenience related to parking a CrewCab-long bed dually in town is well worth the peace of mind and added safety factor related to downhill travels and potential emergency maneuvers, IMO. GM - finally - did a great job with this engine/trans combo, although the older ones also worked quite well (I used them at work.)

Regards,
Ed

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by slowmover

I own the same truck as you.

The singular difference between a car with a given engine and a pickup with the same is that the pickup "might" have larger coolant capacity. Maybe lower Drive Axle gearing.

And, the pickup has greater cargo capacity.

That's it for the pickup "advantage".

"Engineered to Tow" is funny. Is that part of someone's marketing?

The negatives for any pickup are a long list.

To listen around here, I just can't understand how we used cars across the US, Mexico and Canada from the 1960s onwards with 30' TTs heavier than the comparable Airstream. Had to listen to that poor motor run 2800-rpm all day. Still would last to 200k without a valve job. Etc.

Upgrading trailer brakes to disc would matter. Those who tow at 65+ have NO trailer brakes before finishing an emergency stop. Or, with some badly chosen grade descent speed plus tactics.

Steering and braking matter. The rest is add-ons.

.

My memories of the 60's plus or minus automobiles are not as glowing as slowmover's. My parents routinely traded cars (Mercury, Ford, Chevrolet) with 30,000 to 40,000 miles on them and most were traded because of a catastrophic transmission or engine failure. They never towed anything.

Al

[Moflash]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The preferred car of the era was Chrysler. All brands unibody (Imperial after 1966). Stronger and lighter. Other advantages as well. Give it up, MoFlash, you're floundering. Some others of you appear to be outside of experience. Are today's cars and trucks "better"? Yes. So what?



The legality of overweight is funny. Axle ratings and tire/wheel ratings matter. See what regulates DOT rulings in commercial service. Not an advisory about "towing capacity", etc. Who will weigh the rig after a wreck? Loss of control is always down to the driver. A ticket if warranted and that's it.



If the OP wants a one ton, have at it. If he loads the bed to 1-2k in weight prior to hitching, it'll work. If not, then something else.

Once again nothing to ad but bs?

[Tater]

I tow a 2012 30' Classic with a 2015 Silverado 2500 diesel. My wife and I both tow with that vehicle. I believe you would be very happy with any of the big 3 diesels. Would love to have a new 33' to pull around. Good luck and happy camping.

[EarlM]

We tow our 33 FB with a GMC 3500 Denali SRW Diesel works great