Tow Vehicle Recommendation

[abone]

I have the Ram Ecodiesel fully loaded crew cab Laramie Ltd, 4WD with 3.92 gears and factory air suspension. I find the acceleration adequate, not great but not a limiting factor. I've climbed 8.5% grades for 20 km and never dropped below 80 kph. The transmission is by far the best I have ever owned and I've had Suburban's, Denali's, Infiniti's, F150's etc. Nothing comes close to this 8 speed. And as others have stated, it achieves excellent fuel economy. I am easily getting 15 litres/100 km towing which is just under 16 US mpg. And as a daily driver I jump into this truck before our Infiniti FX-50S, I like the truck that much. It gets better mileage around town too.

My issue is three-fold, and it's enough of an issue I am currently pricing out 3/4 tons and 1 tons:

*The Ram has a lousy payload - mine is 911 lbs - which just isn't enough for a truck and trailer loaded for camping.
* It is extremely difficult to transfer weight to the front axle. I have the equal-i-izer 4 point 10,000 lb and have spent hours making all the potential adjustments and can't get it closer than 480 lbs difference between front and rear axles, loaded for camping. I've gone across the scales 5 or 6 times while making the adjustments.
* Finally, the transmission just can't hold the trailer back on steep grades so either truck or trailer brakes, or both, have to be deployed.
I know there are many towing heavier trailers than mine with this truck and happy doing so and I have no issue with that. In my case I just am not comfortable being up against axle ratings, GCVW and well over on payload whilst using the truck and trailer brakes to maintain a safe speed down steep grades. Living in Western Canada we have lots of steep grades.

I've got another round of hitch adjustments to make and if I can't get the axle weights within 200 lbs I'll be moving up to a heavier truck.

My trailer is a '17 27FB with a weighed tongue weight of 850 lbs.

[slowmover]

Hitch receiver may not be up to the job. May need reinforcement. For that and WDH questions I'd contact Andrew Thomson at Can Am RV.

Your limits are axle/tire/wheel. Payload limit is relative, at best.

My Dad towed a larger, heavier trailer with a car for the first twelve years out of a quarter century of ownership. Similar payload limit. But a far better hitch receiver than what is OEM today as frame rails tied together at several points forward to axle, not just at rear crossmember.

See if Andy has some ideas.

1990 35' Silver Streak
2004 555 Cummins

[abone]

Thanks...I spoke to Andy a few days ago. He knows the Ram Ecodiesel very well, and is a big fan of the truck too btw. He isn't a fan of my particular hitch however.
He isn't concerned about being over on GCVW and payload, but I am. The trucks are rated for a reason, and downhill braking limitation isn't an engineering parameter, its real.
He made some suggestions which I will try next.

[VernDiesel]

Abone, Your main issue seems to be safe braking down a grade. As you probably know both PPEI & GDE have a tune with dramatically improved turbo braking. As well as a noticable improvement over adequate acceleration. I think you know I have the GDE & I've come down grades with 8,000 pounds of AS pushing me. Steep enough and you will have to occationally & lightly supplement the turbo brake with either the trailer brake controller or the truck brakes or both if you prefer. In any case it's no drama.

Fwiw Ram has a max CVWR rating on the 1500 Hemi to 15,950. Not that this makes any sense as it doesn't have any turbo or other brake like we have with the ED. To 6,000 pounds the GDE tune turbo brake will control the speed on a 6 percent grade by itself.

If Andys suggestions get you closer to a 50/50 bias where you are at or below your axle ratings you may yet have a situation you are confident with on the truck that you like so much. I have a different WDH & aftermarket rear axle to frame bags so not sure that I can help you there. Hopefully Andy can. Regardless all the best.

[abone]

Thanks Vern,
I always appreciate your input and its been very helpful while I get to know the capabilities of the truck. You make an excellent point about the Hemi GCVW. I always assumed it was due to the ED engine being heavier, which it is, but not that much. What, a couple hundred lbs heavier?
Andy suggested I drill another hole in the shank to move the load closer to the truck, and recommended which Michelins to try when I replace mine for additional load capacity. I can still add a spacer or two to my hitch, plus the dealer didn't place the brackets at the max distance, 32", because of the propane lines being in the way. That will help get more flex into my bars. Finally my last trip across the scales I was loaded a little more heavily than I would typically travel. So I have a few little adjustments to make which hopefully make a big difference.
Finally he suggested a different hitch but that would be a last resort.
Slomover above suggested reinforcing the hitch receiver so I want to ask about that too.
Thanks again,
Andy

[slowmover]

Using the service brakes on a downgrade is normal. A requirement dependent on descent speed, total weight, and grade.

One chooses a speed. Say, 40-mph. And begins the descent at 30-mph. As the combined rig passes 40 and hits 45, one uses the service brakes to ease it back down to 30. Repeat as required.

If Andy says dump the hitch for a better one, I'd agree. It's cheap to do so.


1990 35' Silver Streak
2004 555 Cummins

[VernDiesel]

Seems to me I read on Allpar the ED is only like 211 pounds heavier than the Hemi. It's actually physically a little smaller package it's just that much beefier.

I've also been wanting to drill a hole in the receiver shank that is closer to the truck. There looks to be just enough room to do it and it would have to help. (In many ways not just in giving leverage to the WDH) You would need a good drill & bit as it would be hard. Propane lines are quick & easy to move out of the way on an AS. Lol Refastening them to your satisfaction may not be. Many just leave them hang as their is not a lot of extra length. The combination of those two should be measurably better on the scale. Like how a little length makes a world of difference on a pry bar.

I've good experience with Michelin Defender LTX M/S & also the General Grabber HTS both having stronger side walls makes the truck feel a little more shore footed & stable. The welded strengthened receiver should also make a difference. Think I would sooner buy one of the excellent aftermarket receivers. There was a post on the ED forum where a guy bought a used ED without a receiver. Someone posted a link with an install video & review which impressed me as being much better than the factory receiver. Think the link was from etrailer. I inspect my receiver for stress cracks from time to time so far none found. Naturally a better WDH is always an option but I don't think you are going to need it. I'm sure somebody is reading thinking you should have just bought the $2k wonder hitch or bought a kidney & AS jarring HD. Tis ok I get satisfaction in going & extra mile & coming out with something better.

[tjdonahoe]

The receiver shank is not hard, if it was it would break, stick it in a drill press and drill it...

[Milo1952]

That 211 lbs takes away 211 lbs of payload
Seems to me Ram should ofer a haevy paylkoad package

[joshjack]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

That 211 lbs takes away 211 lbs of payload
Seems to me Ram should ofer a haevy paylkoad package

They do - it's called a RAM 2500...

[Milo1952]

The deed is done
2017 AS International signature 30 queen

2016 f250 diesel

So Happy

Should have it home from California by Tuesday

Bought it as a pkg deal. Thank you Jan and Howard

Got. Caught in a blizzard in Falgstaff. Came to a dead stop on a monster uphill.no traction
put it put it into 4wd and never looked back.

What a great tv

[Vitaver]

Congratulations on your purchase and I hope you thouroughly enjoy your excelent choices. If you plan ot risk towing on mud/snow/ice I suggest you complement your choice with diamond shaped chains for your TV. Worst case they add weight (traction) to your TV if not used. Best case (as it happened to me) they help you pull somebody else from a ditch and/or save your own. I've been through both scenarios.

[KathrynB]

DKottum: How does your Dodge Ram 1500 handle towing in the mountains? My husband and I are considering getting a 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 turbodiesel with a 3.92 axle ratio to tow our 25' Intl. Serenity. Half the year we'll be based in Los Angeles and half the year we'll be traveling around the western U.S., so ideally we'd like a Tow Vehicle that's safe on the downgrades but gets reasonable mileage w/o the trailer. What I've read is that diesel will give me more power for getting up the hills. What about going down?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by KathrynB

DKottum: How does your Dodge Ram 1500 handle towing in the mountains? My husband and I are considering getting a 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 turbodiesel with a 3.92 axle ratio to tow our 25' Intl. Serenity. Half the year we'll be based in Los Angeles and half the year we'll be traveling around the western U.S., so ideally we'd like a Tow Vehicle that's safe on the downgrades but gets reasonable mileage w/o the trailer. What I've read is that diesel will give me more power for getting up the hills. What about going down?

Kathryn, we just love our Ram EcoDiesel whether towing our Airstream or as a daily driver when we are away from home 6-7 months a year. The turbo diesel engine, 8-speed transmission, and 3.92 axles are a near perfect match to us and our 25' Airstream.

You asked about downhill grades but first the combination must be loaded properly and the weight distribution hitch must be capable of distributing enough weight and stabilizing the Airstream. I cannot emphasize the importance of the hitch setup enough. We use a 1400 lb ProPride hitch which enables us to load our truck's axles evenly, distribute about 200 lbs of the truck's load to the Airstream's axles, and hold the combination absolutely rock solid in all road, traffic, and road conditions.

When you have stable, well balanced towing combination you can be assured it will have the best possible braking performance as well. Our transmission will automatically downshift and allow the engine rpm to increase significantly to build up enough back pressure to help hold the combo on steep downhill. If you are not satisfied with the auto downshift, you can select lower gears manually.

We start the steeper descent on highways at about 40 mph, and it will want to increase. That is where it is normal to use the truck and trailer service brakes to hold the speed to 40-45 mph for our comfort and a sense of complete control should something happen on the road in front of us. I like to use the manual brake controller to apply the trailer brakes for this and stay off the truck's brakes, so we always have cool, fresh truck brakes if we need them.

If we were doing a lot of steep mountain driving very regularly, I would have disc brakes installed on the trailer for better braking with much less chance of brake fade. I would do this no matter what truck we were using, because trailer braking combined with engine and truck service brakes as needed is the safest method of downhill braking.

If you are new to this, I would suggest getting familiar with descents on shorter grades until you become confident, and then tackle the long steep grades with some experience on using the equipment you have. Less dramatic that way.

[tjdonahoe]

Out here in Montana, every direction is up hill, i like my 2500 dodge with the 6.7 Cummings, the exhaust brake is standard, you very seldom touch your service brakes..1300 rpm at 63 mph with our 31' classic. 6000 front, 6500 rear, 17200 max trailer weight...

[joshjack]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Out here in Montana, every direction is up hill, i like my 2500 dodge with the 6.7 Cummings...

Cummins...

[dkottum]

Out here in New Mexico, Arizona, and California where we spend six months of each year there are plenty of mountain grades to test the power and braking of our EcoDiesel as well. Our Airstream weighs 7200 lbs loaded to the gills, no need for 10,000 lbs excess towing capacity.

Considering the all-around use of our truck as a tow vehicle and daily driver it's pretty hard to beat.

[abone]

Originally Posted by KathrynB

DKottum: How does your Dodge Ram 1500 handle towing in the mountains? My husband and I are considering getting a 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 turbodiesel with a 3.92 axle ratio to tow our 25' Intl. Serenity. Half the year we'll be based in Los Angeles and half the year we'll be traveling around the western U.S., so ideally we'd like a Tow Vehicle that's safe on the downgrades but gets reasonable mileage w/o the trailer. What I've read is that diesel will give me more power for getting up the hills. What about going down?

I have a 2014 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel, 3.92, crew cab, air susp, short box in Laramie Ltd trim, so fully loaded. It is an incredible truck except for one issue - they are payload, GVW and GCVW limited. My doorsill sticker is 911 lbs payload. I have a 2017 27FB Int Sig and its real tongue weight is 850lbs. Sure some can be transferred to the truck, but moving weight to the front axle on a half ton is a challenge. I have run across the scales many times and made multiple changes to my Equalizer-4-Point hitch and the closest I can get the front to rear axle weights is 450 lbs difference so far. A couple more adjustments and I am confident I can move another 100 or so lbs but thats it. I am right at max GCVW, axle weight limits, GVW and tongue weight. The difference in dry weight between a 25 and 27 is very little...a couple hundred lbs if memory serves so realistically you will top out around 7000 lbs +/-.
Going uphill is not an issue, the engine is a gem. I have achieved as high as 17 US mpg on a 800 mile trip. I have never dropped below 50 mph on any uphill (highway) grade. Where it becomes an issue for me is downhill towing, and payload management. The transmission is awesome but simply can't hold the load on a steep descent without using the service brakes. I do not have an aftermarket tune and do not wish to install one for various reasons. I live in British Columbia so lots of mountains here and in the Pacific Northwest.
So can the truck handle a 25 AS? Sure it can, but you have to be comfortable being right at all the tow rating limits, using your service brakes on a steep descent, and managing your payload at all times. I am not and have decided to go to a Ford Super Duty.

[Andrew T]

It is interesting how many people focus on one number in a vehicle spec such as payload or engine size. and ignore several other specifications.

[Andrew T]

I find it interesting how people will focus on one vehicle spec such as payload or displacement for example and ignore all the other specifications. Many of the specs on an F250 including breaking ability are worse than the 1500 ED.