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Old 11-03-2017, 03:08 PM   #161
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No, not at all. I'm actually a big advocate for the strength of the F150 EB at towing most airstreams.

My only point was agreement with earlier posts that buying with the mindset of 90% of the time comfort versus 10% of the time critical use. My point has never been everyone should drive a dually 350, but that they should have enough to cover their planned use, the problem with this is most do not have enough foresight, kinda like buying 3 trailers within 6 years to get another 2ft each time. They purchase for flatland empty highway towing, not 8% high winds and emergency braking and then decide they want to see Utah..

If your stability is actually greater than 80% of the 3/4 tons, then you're ahead of the game. As slowmover always points out, it is the lash up that matters along with stopping ability, too many only look at what will pull it.
You do realize that if one stays withing the GVWR (or GCWR if towing), Axle ratings, etc., then the manufacturer has certified that the powertrain, braking, suspension and all systems and components will meet or exceed their minimum and/or FMVSS performance requirements.

I have towed many miles with GM's 2500s and 1500 (maxtows) with my 30' classic. Properly spec'ed, the 1500 has no less performance, stability or safety than the 2500. In fact, the powertrain performance is substantially better with the 1500 6.2L maxtow than the gas 2500.
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:18 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
You do realize that if one stays withing the GVWR (or GCWR if towing), Axle ratings, etc., then the manufacturer has certified that the powertrain, braking, suspension and all systems and components will meet or exceed their minimum and/or FMVSS performance requirements.



I have towed many miles with GM's 2500s and 1500 (maxtows) with my 30' classic. Properly spec'ed, the 1500 has no less performance, stability or safety than the 2500. In fact, the powertrain performance is substantially better with the 1500 6.2L maxtow than the gas 2500.


Ah! This is good stuff. Information is power. Please keep it coming... only if you feel the need, and its on subject. Thx!
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:30 PM   #163
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Len and/or Jeanne, give it up. The only thing that would make him happy is if you bought a Dodge Charger with a hemi and a pro pride hitch. Then you would be soul mates.
And you only snipe from the sidelines, AFAIK. Point us to where this isn't the case on this subject. And your choice of a non-pickup TV and utility trailer could carry far more than the bed of your current TV. Far more useful, in fact.

But, you're right on one count. That car would do a better job than the truck. As would others. And in every roadgoing respect. Unless the truck was worth the compromise due to specifics. Not generalities. That's the question needs answered.

Go to post 22 of the recent thread, "Fuel Economy Comparison". It doesn't take a monster truck to beat a pickup to the top of a hill. The Davis Dam road (SR-68) is part of the J2807 protocol and plenty of TVs can run this course. Some that can wax the pickups.

There is Adequate performance (meets the target); there is Good performance (exceeds it); and there is then ordering these categories per importance. For a given model/brand of a given vehicle type. Lower than Average is the problem for pickups in important categories.

It's vehicle type comparison comes first. The vehicle type with the greatest number of shortcomings is dead last. Never to be the default choice.

Emotions/ego needs to be left out.

As is blaming the TV for the operators shortcomings.

.
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:21 PM   #164
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And you only snipe from the sidelines, AFAIK. Point us to where this isn't the case on this subject. And your choice of a non-pickup TV and utility trailer could carry far more than the bed of your current TV. Far more useful, in fact.

But, you're right on one count. That car would do a better job than the truck. As would others. And in every roadgoing respect. Unless the truck was worth the compromise due to specifics. Not generalities. That's the question needs answered.

Go to post 22 of the recent thread, "Fuel Economy Comparison". It doesn't take a monster truck to beat a pickup to the top of a hill. The Davis Dam road (SR-68) is part of the J2807 protocol and plenty of TVs can run this course. Some that can wax the pickups.

There is Adequate performance (meets the target); there is Good performance (exceeds it); and there is then ordering these categories per importance. For a given model/brand of a given vehicle type. Lower than Average is the problem for pickups in important categories.

It's vehicle type comparison comes first. The vehicle type with the greatest number of shortcomings is dead last. Never to be the default choice.

Emotions/ego needs to be left out.

As is blaming the TV for the operators shortcomings.

.
Man, relax. Dont you ever go camping in your AS and just have fun? Isnt that the point of this rather expensive hobby?
Why not just tell us about the cute name you gave your AS instead of blowing a gasket because others dont share your view of the most desirable TV? I know. That would really be hijacking this thread...
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:56 PM   #165
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Slowmover, it's really hard to take a man serious when he doesn't do as he preaches. Same sermon over and over on this forum about how bad trucks are as tow vehicles and you still drive that big A$$ pickup. Just makes you look like a fool....or troll. Take your pick.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:01 PM   #166
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Some of us feel that it is childish to name an inanimate object. Slow mover is not a troll.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:57 PM   #167
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Some of us feel that it is childish to name an inanimate object. Slow mover is not a troll.


Also not an Airstream owner and tows with a pickup.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:50 AM   #168
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Hi

The point that keeps getting ignored (and thus gets yelled about) is that we *all* head towards a truck. That's based on emotion more than logic. There are a *lot* of vehicles out there that tow very well. Yes, I tow with an F-250.

In some cases odd little specifics *do* matter and matter a lot. I'm a bit on the tall side. There are *very* few vehicles that I can sit up in. It's not just a matter of height (6'4") it's also a matter of how much is in your legs. Yes, that's a very strange constraint. Each of us has their constraints.

I'd love to pick between a wide range of vehicles, even for daily use. There are a surprising number of trucks I can't sit up in (moonroof = no go). Large SUV's mostly don't work either. Driving with the seat tipped horizontal ... that doesn't work either ... tried it

Could I buy this or that vehicle and have custom seats installed? I probably could. Warranty wise that could be "interesting". I've seen articles that talk about *lots* of electronics being stashed in modern seats. Numbers like > 50 CPU's in the seat get tossed around. It's a crazy world .....

All that said, the truck decision is still an emotional one.

Bob
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:22 AM   #169
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Fact is, guys like pickup trucks. I would hate to do a slalom course with mine and I know the Grand Cherokee was probably safer all around. But I like sitting up with 7000lbs of metal around me in detroit traffic.

I'm well aware of the handling issues with pickups. Can't remember the last panic maneuver I made, I was probably 19 years old. And drivers suck a lot more than they did back then. If you make a lot of panic stops etc, might want to get something that handles better. But I don't really need it.

I also like hooking up and heading down the road. I don't have to weigh my stuff every time to make sure I don't bust my 3900 lb payload or axle limits. Crank the Hensley til it's level, and go.

By the way, I'm getting worse mileage with the 27' than I did with the Bambi. About 14 not towing and 11 towing. But I'm not in this for mileage lol
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:13 PM   #170
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Slowmover, again, we acknowledge your superior technical knowledge. Truly. We don't dispute it, it's just that a vehicle is also a component in a suite of total lifestyle choices.

I might add that as a couple of retirees in the boonies who commute nowhere and sometimes haul stuff, we are a one-vehicle household. With 97% of our driving being on western highways, we actually didn't lose on the highway mileage from our Tacoma when we bought the Tundra.

Out here, a Tundra is an average-sized truck, not a hugie.

For us the big advantage of a truck with a topper (cap, canopy) vs. an SUV is the commodious storage. On a typical camping trip, we've got ample space for the camp chairs and side tables, the biffy box (if we might need it,) bucket, shovel, generator, jerry cans for gas and water, canoe paddles, life jackets, canoeing blue barrel, box for recyclables, picnic cooler, and any clothing items that won't fit in the AS. In the past we had a dog and sometimes travel with other people, so that accounts for the back seat in the crew cab.

Recently, in a typical year we probably spend 2-3 months camping/on the road, notably in BC, to visit family in central Colorado, southern Utah's canyons, and the Mojave desert in late winter. The only disadvantage we've found with the Tundra in all these places honestly has been the longer wheel-base, after we drop the AS at a campsite and explore dirt roads with squirrely steep bedrock pitches better suited to jeeps and OHVs. Otherwise the length is probably an advantage.

Happy trails. Seriously. If you're ever out this way, please give a shout and we'll stake you to the beverage of your choice while learning more about the finer points of towing.
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:08 PM   #171
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Fact is, guys like pickup trucks. I would hate to do a slalom course with mine and I know the Grand Cherokee was probably safer all around. But I like sitting up with 7000lbs of metal around me in detroit traffic.

I'm well aware of the handling issues with pickups. Can't remember the last panic maneuver I made, I was probably 19 years old. And drivers suck a lot more than they did back then. If you make a lot of panic stops etc, might want to get something that handles better. But I don't really need it.

I also like hooking up and heading down the road. I don't have to weigh my stuff every time to make sure I don't bust my 3900 lb payload or axle limits. Crank the Hensley til it's level, and go.

By the way, I'm getting worse mileage with the 27' than I did with the Bambi. About 14 not towing and 11 towing. But I'm not in this for mileage lol
Here here, well said. But I drive my F350 6.7 long bed the same way I drove my 500 Arbarth, people just get out of the way a lot faster now.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:50 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne View Post
Slowmover, again, we acknowledge your superior technical knowledge. Truly. We don't dispute it, it's just that a vehicle is also a component in a suite of total lifestyle choices.

I might add that as a couple of retirees in the boonies who commute nowhere and sometimes haul stuff, we are a one-vehicle household. With 97% of our driving being on western highways, we actually didn't lose on the highway mileage from our Tacoma when we bought the Tundra.

Out here, a Tundra is an average-sized truck, not a hugie.

For us the big advantage of a truck with a topper (cap, canopy) vs. an SUV is the commodious storage. On a typical camping trip, we've got ample space for the camp chairs and side tables, the biffy box (if we might need it,) bucket, shovel, generator, jerry cans for gas and water, canoe paddles, life jackets, canoeing blue barrel, box for recyclables, picnic cooler, and any clothing items that won't fit in the AS. In the past we had a dog and sometimes travel with other people, so that accounts for the back seat in the crew cab.

Recently, in a typical year we probably spend 2-3 months camping/on the road, notably in BC, to visit family in central Colorado, southern Utah's canyons, and the Mojave desert in late winter. The only disadvantage we've found with the Tundra in all these places honestly has been the longer wheel-base, after we drop the AS at a campsite and explore dirt roads with squirrely steep bedrock pitches better suited to jeeps and OHVs. Otherwise the length is probably an advantage.

Happy trails. Seriously. If you're ever out this way, please give a shout and we'll stake you to the beverage of your choice while learning more about the finer points of towing.
Ya'll are as bad as me.

What's necessary is different from what's desired. That's number one. Why I borrowed your post that got this rolling. But what we advise someone new is different (he ain't planning to carry a half-cord of firewood and a complete set of 1926 Griswold cast iron cookware like us).

We don't advise children to play with matchsticks. We don't advise the worst handling, braking and steering TV when others are more suitable in every single role, either.

Have a look at Post#22 of the 2/2017 thread, Fuel Economy Comparison. That's not me, nor the many who've passed on that rolled the mountains and hills in what today's ignorance screams "you can't do that". Really? We were doing it before you were born, just as the man who posted them is doing them. And not less safely is the rub. MORE.

I like my old truck fine. I get it about the convenience. And when I've finished what renovations my trailer wants, I'll gladly go back to using a car. Carrying less junk.

But, since I'm no longer married, I won't be one of those old coots I remember from childhood who hid the booze under the spare tire so the missus wouldn't scold. My trunk will probably light up with a three tier bar like a cheap Vegas casino, ha!

.
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:22 AM   #173
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Ya'll are as bad as me.
Taken as a compliment.

Quote:
.....I won't be one of those old coots I remember from childhood who hid the booze under the spare tire so the missus wouldn't scold. My trunk will probably light up with a three tier bar like a cheap Vegas casino, ha!

.
If you're carrying that much booze on a camping trip, slowmover, let us know where to find you, just to stop by and say howdy. Oh, around 5:00? Bring our own camp chairs?

Cheers.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:23 AM   #174
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Hi

One of the most interesting things about all this is how full sized vans vanish from the conversation. We talk about customizing vehicles for towing. Full size vans are the most often customized vehicle out there.(At least as a percentage of sales). I have yet to see any of the custom van guys decide to do an "RV tow special". Given how often we have this conversation and how long the various threads run in parallel, there's a market out there ....

Indeed, it's been a while since a big van was "cool". There once was a day when they were. Retro has it's appeal in the market....

Bob
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:27 AM   #175
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I saw a big van towing what I think was an 80s Airstream west on I 10 in southern New Mexico yesterday... it seemed to be doing just fine.
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:27 PM   #176
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Hi


Indeed, it's been a while since a big van was "cool". There once was a day when they were. Retro has it's appeal in the market....

Bob
Reminds me of a quote from the 60s :if you see this van a-rockin, dont come a-knockin

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Old 11-05-2017, 01:35 PM   #177
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Ah, conversion vans

Actually we had a GMC conversion van a long time ago. Crushed velour and polished mahogany everywhere. Pulled a pop up camper with it. Properly equipped I can see that working as a tow vehicle.
The thing about a pickup, however, is the bed is separate which is good for hauling smelly stuff like generators.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:38 PM   #178
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Our 1979 GMC home made conversion was a very capable tow vehicle, although we only pulled a Camry on a dolly one time. Plenty of V8 power, solid transmission and air bags in the rear.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:42 PM   #179
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We have several customers towing with Sprinters. Some are conversion vans like the Interstate. 2 carry their motorcycles in them. I think the Ford Transit may be even better.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:04 PM   #180
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If your stability is actually greater than 80% of the 3/4 tons, then you're ahead of the game. As slowmover always points out, it is the lash up that matters along with stopping ability, too many only look at what will pull it.
As an example, I posted the above 2 days ago, today someone posted (snippet of) in response to "does my vehicle have enough power and braking" their recommendation

The important factor is that the tow vehicle have the power, brakes, systems to PULL the load.

Ya, who cares about stopping or controlling the load...
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