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Old 11-01-2017, 07:42 AM   #141
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I would think most of the industry design work for towing centers around 5th wheel towing.

Ford did make a van set up for towing at one time but dropped the line.

Not sure there is room under CAFE for a car that tows. How many gas sippers would they have to sell to make up for a vehicle with some low end torque?
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:01 PM   #142
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Not sure there is room under CAFE for a car that tows. How many gas sippers would they have to sell to make up for a vehicle with some low end torque?
The two aren't mutually exclusive. More transmission gears, and forced induction (turbocharging) both contribute to better CAFE figures, and good low end torque. There is an opportunity to improve towing performance through software as well (eg more sophisticated tow modes) which doesn't harm CAFE numbers.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:09 PM   #143
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Sigh.... have it your way, slowmover. Possibly before you moved to eastern Texas you lived in the Rockies, or visit them frequently now. Or tow your AS in on long steep uphill grades several times per month 3 seasons of the year, as we do. There is nothing "delusional" about the desirability of extra power going up hill on a long steep grade.

We hear you loud and clear on the issues of heading downhill on these roads. The frequency of runaway truck ramps on downhill grades says a lot.

And if you're happy on those long steep uphill grades driving at 25 mph behind big semis when you're on a tight schedule, that's fine. (I'd say, "More power to you," but that would be a bad pun.) We'd rather stick with about 55-60 mph uphill on the Interstates.

We're extremely conservative about passing, but especially on two lane roads with a long way to travel, extra power is Godsend.

Meanwhile, we've never regretted trading in the Tacoma for a Tundra.

Just as a separate side-note, on I-70, the elevation of Denver is 5,280 feet. Its high point is the Eisenhower tunnel on the continental divide at 11,158 feet-- over a distance of 57 miles. I-80 crosses Salt Lake City at 4327 feet and climbs up to 7,028 feet at Parley's Summit over a distance of 22 miles. Donner Pass in the Sierras is at 7, 056 feet, with SF, of course, at sea level. Big trucks and RVs, of course, use these routes all the time: some more enjoyably than others.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:52 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne View Post
Sigh.... have it your way, slowmover. Possibly before you moved to eastern Texas you lived in the Rockies, or visit them frequently now. Or tow your AS in on long steep uphill grades several times per month 3 seasons of the year, as we do. There is nothing "delusional" about the desirability of extra power going up hill on a long steep grade.

We hear you loud and clear on the issues of heading downhill on these roads. The frequency of runaway truck ramps on downhill grades says a lot.

And if you're happy on those long steep uphill grades driving at 25 mph behind big semis when you're on a tight schedule, that's fine. (I'd say, "More power to you," but that would be a bad pun.) We'd rather stick with about 55-60 mph uphill on the Interstates.

We're extremely conservative about passing, but especially on two lane roads with a long way to travel, extra power is Godsend.

Meanwhile, we've never regretted trading in the Tacoma for a Tundra.

Just as a separate side-note, on I-70, the elevation of Denver is 5,280 feet. Its high point is the Eisenhower tunnel on the continental divide at 11,158 feet-- over a distance of 57 miles. I-80 crosses Salt Lake City at 4327 feet and climbs up to 7,028 feet at Parley's Summit over a distance of 22 miles. Donner Pass in the Sierras is at 7, 056 feet, with SF, of course, at sea level. Big trucks and RVs, of course, use these routes all the time: some more enjoyably than others.
👍
There’s not a one-size-fits-all answer for everyone. Some people say “prioritize on your daily driving needs, not occasional towing”, but they don’t get the whole picture. Most people have more than one car. I am a very high mileage driver so my car is a Camry hybrid (Great car). It handles great in the GA “mountains” (nothing like the mountains you have) and gets great gas mileage.

My wife, on the other hand, works part time only 3 miles away. All of her driving involves short trips— she drives the Tundra. She might go two weeks or more before buying gas. When it comes time to tow, the Tundra handles our 23D very nicely. We’ve taken the Tundra/23D combo through mountains in VA, TN, NC and GA through all kinds of weather. Not the Rockies, bit plenty of steep grades and windy roads. So far the “bi**ch hadn’t even attempted to pass the TV”, nor does it seem to want to.
You like your Tundra and it’s doing the job for you, then it sounds like a good fit.
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:18 PM   #145
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Its simple enough,

1. learn your vehicle, and if it feels right drive it the way it should be driven.

And-

2. Don’t drive like a .....
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:22 AM   #146
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There’s not a one-size-fits-all answer for everyone. Some people say “prioritize on your daily driving needs, not occasional towing”, but they don’t get the whole picture.
This thought process always makes me chuckle and cringe... Kinda like, my seatbelt is uncomfortable so I only wear it when I know I'm gonna be in a crash...

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best..
But what you need to tow and learn to like it for the rest. If single, hey whatever kill yourself, responsible for a family, take responsibility..
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:26 AM   #147
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This thought process always makes me chuckle and cringe... Kinda like, my seatbelt is uncomfortable so I only wear it when I know I'm gonna be in a crash...



Prepare for the worst, hope for the best..

But what you need to tow and learn to like it for the rest. If single, hey whatever kill yourself, responsible for a family, take responsibility..


What if my half ton Airstream combination is more stable than 80% of the 3/4 and one Ton Airstream combinations?
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:04 AM   #148
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This thought process always makes me chuckle and cringe... Kinda like, my seatbelt is uncomfortable so I only wear it when I know I'm gonna be in a crash...

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best..
But what you need to tow and learn to like it for the rest. If single, hey whatever kill yourself, responsible for a family, take responsibility..
That was clear as mud. What’s your point?
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:08 AM   #149
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That was clear as mud. What’s your point?


I think he might be saying that anyone towing an Airstream with a smaller tow vehicle than his is the same as a suicidal murderer.

But I am open to correction about that.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:50 AM   #150
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Sigh.... have it your way, slowmover. Possibly before you moved to eastern Texas you lived in the Rockies, or visit them frequently now. Or tow your AS in on long steep uphill grades several times per month 3 seasons of the year, as we do. There is nothing "delusional" about the desirability of extra power going up hill on a long steep grade.

We hear you loud and clear on the issues of heading downhill on these roads. The frequency of runaway truck ramps on downhill grades says a lot.

And if you're happy on those long steep uphill grades driving at 25 mph behind big semis when you're on a tight schedule, that's fine. (I'd say, "More power to you," but that would be a bad pun.) We'd rather stick with about 55-60 mph uphill on the Interstates.

We're extremely conservative about passing, but especially on two lane roads with a long way to travel, extra power is Godsend.

Meanwhile, we've never regretted trading in the Tacoma for a Tundra.

Just as a separate side-note, on I-70, the elevation of Denver is 5,280 feet. Its high point is the Eisenhower tunnel on the continental divide at 11,158 feet-- over a distance of 57 miles. I-80 crosses Salt Lake City at 4327 feet and climbs up to 7,028 feet at Parley's Summit over a distance of 22 miles. Donner Pass in the Sierras is at 7, 056 feet, with SF, of course, at sea level. Big trucks and RVs, of course, use these routes all the time: some more enjoyably than others.
Some of my family was in Colorado before the Civil War. And the three generations of those of us who've owned this trailer type have covered from Mexico City to Alaska the last fifty years plus. I've covered the major passes with cars pulling trailers heavier than yours. Was I glad when the Eisenhower opened? Sure was.

But, you've missed the point made. First, it wasn't about your choice, but the rationalizations made that those posts were common. Failure to understand that the specifications of a good tow vehicle are inclusive, not exclusive.

You didn't note the difference between "adequate" and "good", did you?. We can go farther to cover suspension, steering and finer details in what matters for a tow vehicle. They can all be tested. Thus a range of vehicles can be defined.

There are other TVs that would annihilate your TV up a grade. So? The point would be to see where the rest of the package is better or worse. Distance on a grade of W-percent at X-speed requires Y-power with a combined rig of Z-weight (and further down into details).

And, would you find the quote where I used the figure of 25-mph? (And your estimate of the time increase for that trip would be? Where was your test? Engine hours versus miles over that route; A-B-B-A protocol. Was it seconds or mere minutes? And how did it balance risk against speeding past slower vehicles more than 15-mph below ones speed? Don't answer, this is rhetorical.

As to "schedule", that's nothing but poor discipline and/or planning by the operator. By someone claiming familiarity with a geographical region, doubly so, thus making that "need" laughable. It isn't a need, first, and TV choice isn't its solution, second.

Where "safety" is said to be paramount, engine power is not top of the list. It's not even top five.

Where "speed" is said to be paramount, then engine power is high, but it would otherwise exclude pickup trucks.

Where "cargo capacity" is chief is only where a pickup competes. And is lower on the list than vans. And only then when solo miles also carry a load above what other vehicle designs -- superior to pickups -- might carry.

Etc.

It's risk entailment.

.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:58 AM   #151
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Hi

I might point out that there are other parts of the country that ..... errr .... have highways with 8 to 10% grades due to mountains .... In some cases they go on and on / up and down for quite a ways.

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Old 11-02-2017, 06:43 PM   #152
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My 1/2 ton crew cab weighs 5100 lbs (about 3/4 tank of gas) with a GVWR of 6800 lbs... I hadn’t really looked at it before today. If I cared about the numbers as much as how it tows, it would seem cool to me.
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:06 AM   #153
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Slowmover, this "debate" is becoming kinda pointless, don't you think?

I mean, my great-grandfather homesteaded in Colorado, but none of our ancestors were towing an Airstream. My grandfather did have a fascinating story about driving horses from the Plains to Central City (elev. 8510') during the mining heyday, though.

Our trip scheduling normally works just fine, thanks. We drive conservatively, but just don't choose to drive at ridiculously slow speeds following big semi trailers (who can move at 25 mph up a long steep grade -- my figure, not yours,) in order to prove some point or other about auto mechanics.

Since the OPer lives in Colorado, we just happened to think he might appreciate a more powerful tow vehicle in the mountains. As we do, for staying at a safe speed with the traffic, without getting stuck in the right lane with our flashers on.

We have no interest in whether or not other beefier trucks might "annihilate" ours. If we wanted a monster truck, we would have bought one. Thankfully, we're not into comparables. We wanted a comfortable truck with a reputation for quality, room for our voluminous camping (and often paddling) gear plus occasional passengers, and more oomph than our prior Tacoma.

Hey, man-- in Colorado we're on vacation and visiting family members in the Roaring Fork valley (the one with Aspen in it, elev. 8000' ) -- not playing automotive engineer on a test drive. Ditto for our camping trips in the Canadian Rockies.

I'm impressed by your superior mechanical knowledge, truly-- I take my hat off to you. But sometimes one person's calculus involves factors other than the ones meaningful to someone else. Can we agree on this?
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Old 11-03-2017, 02:40 AM   #154
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these threads are always the same. Someone proposes towing 4000lbs with an suv and by the end of the thread they're in jail, people are dead and insurance is void. "i knew a guy once..."

roflmao. 🤣🤣🤣
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:30 AM   #155
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yep...and my wife is better looking, kids are smarter, TV is bigger and your World is flat.

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Old 11-03-2017, 06:07 AM   #156
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I think he might be saying that anyone towing an Airstream with a smaller tow vehicle than his is the same as a suicidal murderer.

But I am open to correction about that.
No, not at all. I'm actually a big advocate for the strength of the F150 EB at towing most airstreams.

My only point was agreement with earlier posts that buying with the mindset of 90% of the time comfort versus 10% of the time critical use. My point has never been everyone should drive a dually 350, but that they should have enough to cover their planned use, the problem with this is most do not have enough foresight, kinda like buying 3 trailers within 6 years to get another 2ft each time. They purchase for flatland empty highway towing, not 8% high winds and emergency braking and then decide they want to see Utah..

If your stability is actually greater than 80% of the 3/4 tons, then you're ahead of the game. As slowmover always points out, it is the lash up that matters along with stopping ability, too many only look at what will pull it.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:56 AM   #157
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No, not at all. I'm actually a big advocate for the strength of the F150 EB at towing most airstreams.

My only point was agreement with earlier posts that buying with the mindset of 90% of the time comfort versus 10% of the time critical use. My point has never been everyone should drive a dually 350, but that they should have enough to cover their planned use, the problem with this is most do not have enough foresight, kinda like buying 3 trailers within 6 years to get another 2ft each time. They purchase for flatland empty highway towing, not 8% high winds and emergency braking and then decide they want to see Utah..

If your stability is actually greater than 80% of the 3/4 tons, then you're ahead of the game. As slowmover always points out, it is the lash up that matters along with stopping ability, too many only look at what will pull it.
Got it. You do understand that my comment had quotes paraphrasing slowmover’s position, right? In other words I understand him to be an advocate of choosing the tow vehicle with daily driving being a big factor..but not sacrificing stability.
My point is that everyone’s daily driving situation is different and that, at least for me, a truck makes a lot of sense as a TV, especially when I get the benefit of using it for weekend projects.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:02 AM   #158
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Slowmover, this "debate" is becoming kinda pointless, don't you think.......

.....I'm impressed by your superior mechanical knowledge, truly-- I take my hat off to you. But sometimes one person's calculus involves factors other than the ones meaningful to someone else. Can we agree on this?
Len and/or Jeanne, give it up. The only thing that would make him happy is if you bought a Dodge Charger with a hemi and a pro pride hitch. Then you would be soul mates.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:28 AM   #159
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....
My only point was agreement with earlier posts that buying with the mindset of 90% of the time comfort versus 10% of the time critical use. My point has never been everyone should drive a dually 350, but that they should have enough to cover their planned use, ..

.....
Hi

Tried to get the wife to swap the CR-V for a diesel F-350 dually as her everyday driver a few weeks back. Somehow that didn't go over very well. *I* thought it made perfect sense

Bob
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:54 AM   #160
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..



If your stability is actually greater than 80% of the 3/4 tons, then you're ahead of the game. As slowmover always points out, it is the lash up that matters along with stopping ability, too many only look at what will pull it.

The stability of my combination is amazing, rivaling or exceeding the stability of any combination I have ever driven.

That is what kind of irks me about the 1/2 ton nay sayers who claim “unsafe” “unstable” “unsuitable”, maybe causing some to spring tens of thousands of dollars for what is essentially a dedicated tow vehicle that they don’t really need.

If people want a big and powerful tow vehicle that is more than cool, but it is my opinion that telling people they need one to tow an Airstream is an incorrect stance.
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