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Old 04-11-2012, 06:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Bob, a Yankee needs always be more concerned by dead weight when its' neck/shoulder supported.

Adjusted empty weight is part of hitch rigging -- solo/unladen -- inasmuch as tire pressure needs also be established.

Solo/unladen and Towing/laden are the two distinct operating parameters for the TV where an established tire pressure number is required.

Just as height adjustments for the WDH are a good start, so also is the vehicle manufacturers "range" of tire pressure numbers. A FF/RR bias to always respect, but within the range the ideal tire pressure number to be found for either of the above conditions.

The TV is unlikely to ever be heavier or lighter. So best tire numbers for handling & braking per test, just as with scale values for WD fine-tuning.

There can be a situation where the conditions have changed. We now know where to start on adjustments.


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Red,

An optimist will tell you the glass is half-full; the pessimist, half-empty; and the engineer will tell you the glass is twice the size it needs to be.

Your verbosity rocks. KISS

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Old 04-11-2012, 09:39 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
With a Reese full sway control hitch, 5 links under stress is the ideal.

However, 4 links works ok just as well, but at some point, the ball mount needs to be tilted a little more downward.

Andy
So...am I counting links on my Reese ”up” from the trunion bar and does the link that goes thru the bar get included? I know, rookie question but, I'm a rookie so....
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 AM   #31
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All links under tension.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:28 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
With a Reese full sway control hitch, 5 links under stress is the ideal.

However, 4 links works ok just as well, but at some point, the ball mount needs to be tilted a little more downward.

Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
All links under tension.
Dang....that would seem self evident, right? This being a rookie sure makes a person feel silly now and then.
Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:24 PM   #33
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"It" is not always obvious to me either; i.e., there's a reason some/most of us wound up on here.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
"It" is not always obvious to me either; i.e., there's a reason some/most of us wound up on here.
Yeah, and half the time it's "obvious" to me that means I've done it wrong.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:29 AM   #35
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Yeah, and half the time it's "obvious" to me that means I've done it wrong.
The "right" TT and a nice TV cancel that out. Especially now that the best hitch is to be applied. Tires, same way. Etc.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #36
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Thanks for the response, I will tilt the ball and reduce the links to 4 under tension.
After this adjustmustment I will take it to scale to see how the weight is distributed among the TV front and rear axle as well as the trailer
I do not what we will do without Andy.
May God bless you with good health and long life
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #37
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Totally get the headache thing. Here are my results. Any thoughts appreciated!

The trailer tows great, although the tail end of my TV seems to hang a little low when hooked up...
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:26 PM   #38
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Brad: your numbers look good. On my Hensley I move about 400# to the steer axle when everything is level. Looking forward to seeing you at the Canopener if not before. We may drive over to Falluminium since it's in the neighborhood but we have a rally at the Top of Georgia that we will be at. Hopefully next year the rally schedules won't conflict. Bandits.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #39
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Brad. If you go to one of the weigh scales along the interstate there is no charge. Just follow the trucks in and when you get on the scales tell them you want a weigh ticket otherwise you will just get a green arrow indicating you are good to go. Also when you first pull off the interstate to go to the weigh station you may come to a green arrow and a red x. When I followed the green arrow I ended up back on the interstate and missed the weigh station. All the red x meant was that I was not required for come in for weighing not that I couldn't come in. I proceeded through the red arrow, slowly at first, and proceeded to the scales. They know what you are before the turn off to the scales so basically the red arrow just means that you are not required to come in and. E weighed. Bandits.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #40
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Thanks Jerry - see you soon - somewhere!
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilesrob View Post
Totally get the headache thing. Here are my results. Any thoughts appreciated!

The trailer tows great, although the tail end of my TV seems to hang a little low when hooked up...
Good job on acquiring scale tickets.

The FA is the crucial first step in establishing a proper baseline.

FA, solo: 5,040-lbs

This is what we also want with the trailer hitched and WD activated.

Trailer hitched, no WD: 4,560-lbs (480-lbs removed)

Trailer hitched, WD active: 4,760-lbs (280-lbs short of best)

Further adjustment needed, IMO.

FORD, IIRC, recommends a 50% "return" when WD activated which you about meet. I'd rather go to 100% (or as close as hitch will do it). Check their guidelines for your model truck as that should be the background to your decisions/adjustments (as with GVWR, GAWR, etc, etc).

More:

RA increased by 1,480-lbs w/o WD activated.

With WD activated, 200-lbs "went" to the FA and only 40-lbs to TT axles.

Just not enough leverage by the WDH, yet.


(The Ron Gratz Chart)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 4760

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 5160

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5660

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 4560

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 5400

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5620

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3" 5040

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3" 3920

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3 8960

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

15,580

15,580

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

15,580 - 8960 = 6,620


Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

9960 - 8960 = 1,000

TW = 15%

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2

40-lbs

With a 1k TW we'd more likely see around 240-lbs shifted to the trailer axles once the FA weight is "restored" to it's solo value.

While "level" is really only important for the trailer (independent suspension; we want both axles loaded the same as they would not be if the trailer were nose high or low; braking, etc), and slight tail down no big deal for the TV, a better set of adjustments to your hitch will probably pick up the tail a bit.

But there is no doubt that the steering and braking will be improved by further tweaks to the WDH. The more the load on the TT tires, the better will be the combined braking of the rig. Not to mention best anti-sway.

Once done, with new scale tickets, one can also look at TV tire pressures for best performance within vehicle manufacturer guidelines, and check that TT tires still have a 12-15% load reserve against the WD activated scale value divided by four (TT tires are always to be at maximum sidewall pressure, cold).

Perfect is hard to achieve for some rigs . . but the closer one comes the better will the combination rig perform. And this eliminates a lot of guesswork if in the future "something" doesn't seem right anymore (ask BoondockDad about whether it was his worn hitch or his new tires causing a hoochie-koochie dance with his rig on a great thread from a little while back. Eliminating problems because one has solid numbers is a real boon).

Unless you sell either, or greatly change the loading of one or both vehicles, this baseline is good for many years to come. Just check it every so often the same way. A stack of scale tickets -- updated & clipped in your logbook -- is your very good friend. Confidence in a rig is in real time from real numbers . . but confidence itself cannot be measured accurately when it comes to the test. Give it some more work. It'll be the best beer you ever earned (you'll say to yourself someday).

.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:16 PM   #42
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Rednax, awesome advice. I will make some adjustment to the WD, and next time by a scale will give it a whirl. Thx for the thoughts and recommendations.
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