tongue weight--how to reduce

[vmbridges]

Hello,
I have a 2016 bambi sport, and would like to upsize into a 19ft bunk. The problem is the tongue weight is 50 lbs over my TV limit.
My TV is a 2016 4runner, with 5,000 lb GVWR, and 500 tongue weight. It pulls the 16 ft beautifully with the dealer installed blue ox system.
My question is.....is there a way to keep my current vehicle, and just reduce the tongue weight somehow so it's under 500 lb when I upsize?
Otherwise, I'll need a new TV, too.
Thank you in advance.
Vera

[Isuzusweet]

I would get a hold of Andrew at Can am RV in London Ontario Canada. Send him the info on what you have, and what you want to tow. He will send you back info, or even a kit on what modifications you will to do to your hitch to accomodate the heavier load. It'll probably be quite minimal, if any.
Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[moosetags]

Hi Vera,

What is the tongue weight of the Airstream that you are considering? I just looked on the Airstream website, and the stated tongue weight of the new Caravel 19' is 550# with LP and batteries. If the unit that you are considering is only 50# over your tow vehicle's specs, I think that you would be okay.

Brian

[Belegedhel]

Oh my...you've started a thread that is a combination of "right sized tow vehicle for the job" and weight distribution/towing dynamics. Expect this one to go off the rails very quickly!

Anyway, the very quick answer is that there is not much you can do to reduce your tongue weight. You could tow with the fresh water tank empty, and with an absolutely bare minimum of accessories, but it is still unlikely that you are going to get down to that 500 lb limit.

A more exhaustive answer is that in North America, travel trailers are designed to have a tongue weight of 10-15% of the total weight of the trailer. This helps the trailer to tow better, and minimizes fishtailing and sway. Many people purposefully increase their tongue weight (ie., by towing with a full FW tank) in order to improve stability.

There may be ways to reinforce your hitch or beef up your suspension to improve capacity, but these tend to be non-factory certified, and you are really exposing yourself to other hard to quantify risks. There are lots of threads here that discuss the merits of certain dealers who have outfitted unconventional tow vehicles to tow heavy trailers.

Weight distribution hitches will help move some of the weight of the trailer from the rear axle to the front, but the tongue weight is not going to change.

Good luck!

[jcanavera]

Keep in mind that most hitches on vehicles have 2 weight ratings. One is a dead drop which means the hitch has to fully support the trailer tongue weight. There are also ratings when using an equalizing hitch. In those cases some of the weight is being transferred to the trailer itself as well as the front wheels of the tow vehicle. That means that with a weight distribution hitch, that tongue weight of that trailer might be as little as half of the dead drop weight. Most auto and truck manufacturers are giving you the dead drop weight.

Jack

[SilverWind]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Keep in mind that most hitches on vehicles have 2 weight ratings. One is a dead drop which means the hitch has to fully support the trailer tongue weight. There are also ratings when using an equalizing hitch. In those cases some of the weight is being transferred to the trailer itself as well as the front wheels of the tow vehicle. That means that with a weight distribution hitch, that tongue weight of that trailer might be as little as half of the dead drop weight. Most auto and truck manufacturers are giving you the dead drop weight.

Jack

How can I access both hitch weight ratings?

[Bill M.]

You should probably start by doing a 3 pass cat scale weighing of the rig you have now and determine the tongue weight and the load on the TV with the WD engaged. WD moves some tongue wt back to the trailer wheels. But trailers differ from the published tongue weights. Armed with this data you can probably make a decision about a slightly larger trailer.

My guess is that you will be fine. Maybe add a higher rated hitch to the 4 runner.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by vmbridges

Hello,
I have a 2016 bambi sport, and would like to upsize into a 19ft bunk. The problem is the tongue weight is 50 lbs over my TV limit.
My TV is a 2016 4runner, with 5,000 lb GVWR, and 500 tongue weight. It pulls the 16 ft beautifully with the dealer installed blue ox system.
My question is.....is there a way to keep my current vehicle, and just reduce the tongue weight somehow so it's under 500 lb when I upsize?
Otherwise, I'll need a new TV, too.
Thank you in advance.
Vera

Yes. You can very easily reduce the tongue weight 50 lbs by the way you load the trailer. Keep in mind though that you want to have at least 10% of the gross trailer weight on the tongue to prevent trailer sway.

If you have heavy stuff to load then put it over the trailer axle. Cases of soda, beer, water add up quickly. Don't store them up front. Take a look where your water tanks are. If any of them are in front of the axle then make sure they are empty when you tow. Reducing the amount of propane will have a big effect because the bottles are almost right on the tongue. In an extreme case note that taking off your spare and putting it inside in the back can take off quite a lot of pounds off the tongue. Same with the batteries. But I don't thing you'll have to do that if you just watch your normal loading.

[smithcreek]

A weight distribution hitch changes where and how the tongue weight is distributed between the three axles, but plain and simple, it does not change the tongue weight. A lot of people seem to assume the rear axle weight is the same thing as the weight of the tongue measured at the hitch, but it isn't.

So, everything really depends on what the weak link is in your tow setup. If your hitch itself and specifically the tongue weight is the limiting factor you will need to move gear around to lower the tongue weight, or get the hitch modified. A WD hitch may lower your rear axle weight into the acceptable range, but it will not "lower" the tongue weight.

If your vehicle has two different ratings for allowable tongue weight with and without WD, that indicates that the hitch itself is capable of at least the higher rating, but there is either another component of the vehicle that is the limiting factor, or the manufacturer wants to specify when to use WD for vehicle stability. For example, my Tacoma, 4x4, Access Cab, SR5 has a max tongue weight of 650 lbs. The same truck with the exact same class IV hitch but a 2x4 has a 680 lb. limit. Both of these seem to be based on 10% of the max trailer weight the vehicle can tow, not the hitch itself.

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by SilverWind

How can I access both hitch weight ratings?

Great question. If your owner's manual doesn't give you both ratings, your hitch may not be rated for a weight distribution hitch. Dead weight on a ball and distributing weight to front axle are two very different designs.

[perryg114]

Are you sure that is not rated hitch capacity? Is is a real hitch or a ball on bumper?


Perry

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

A weight distribution hitch changes where and how the tongue weight is distributed between the three axles, but plain and simple, it does not change the tongue weight. A lot of people seem to assume the rear axle weight is the same thing as the weight of the tongue measured at the hitch, but it isn't.

So, everything really depends on what the weak link is in your tow setup. If your hitch itself and specifically the tongue weight is the limiting factor you will need to move gear around to lower the tongue weight, or get the hitch modified. A WD hitch may lower your rear axle weight into the acceptable range, but it will not "lower" the tongue weight.

If your vehicle has two different ratings for allowable tongue weight with and without WD, that indicates that the hitch itself is capable of at least the higher rating, but there is either another component of the vehicle that is the limiting factor, or the manufacturer wants to specify when to use WD for vehicle stability. For example, my Tacoma, 4x4, Access Cab, SR5 has a max tongue weight of 650 lbs. The same truck with the exact same class IV hitch but a 2x4 has a 680 lb. limit. Both of these seem to be based on 10% of the max trailer weight the vehicle can tow, not the hitch itself.

True in the aspect that many of the tongue weight limitations based by some manufacturers are based on the hitch platform that comes with your vehicle that the trailer is connected to. Typically that information is stamped on the receiver or the area around the ball.

From what I have been able to research, the standard hitch OEM "receiver " is bolted to the rear frame cross member right in the middle. All you see is the receiver square stick out of a notch in the plastic bumper.

The weight distributing "receiver" is bolted up to the side frame rails instead. From there a tube extends from side to side with the receiver in the middle. You can't miss the lower hanging tube.

Either way. An after market hitch receiver does exist. from the usual suspects like curt or reese. good for 6500# I believe. That type of hitch can get you more capacity than the OEM hitch that Toyota supplies.

So it looks like the hitch if it is like the first one is the limiting factor for you. Hope this helps.

Jack

[jcanavera]

Here's the information sticker on my hitch. You will note the difference hitch weight capacities based on whether it's a dead drop on the ball or if weight distribution equipment is used.

Jack

[ROBERT CROSS]

Plus...the design of the receiver can effect it's capability when WD is used. It may be rated for more weight AND have difficulty transferring that weight.

Notice the difference, OEM GM "round bar" and the Reese TowBeast.
The mount flanges are much longer on the TB, improving the leverage for WD. I was able to exchange the 1400# WD bars for 1000# and transfer the same weight with a much smoother ride.👍
The sticker is for the OEM unit.

Bob
🇺🇸

[PKI]

The way to reduce the tongue weight is to load the coach with all heavy gear over the axle and reduce the total load out to 4500 lbs. Hold your tongue weight to 450-500#s. Do not move gear to the back of the coach.

Tongue weight can be reduced by moving batteries inside the trailer, using lighter weight lithium batteries and upgrading the LPG tanks to aluminum. It might be possible to relocate the spare tire too.

There is another alternative. Weight is a static measurement. It is used to project dynamic forces that are transferred to the vehicle as it goes faster. So, slow your travel speed to 55 mph or slower on very rough roads. The TV will see less force than if you travel at 60-65 mph.

I'd keep the 16 until I was ready to move up to a 23 or 27. But that's just me.

CanAm can help. A lot of research on this forum will help. Look at older/lighter AS models for a similar answer. Good Luck with your investigation. Pat

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Can you reduce tongue weight? Sure you can. Just start piling the gold brick collection on the back bumper. Put enough of them back there and either the bumper will fall off or the front jack will lift right off the ground.

Should you reduce the tongue weight? Probably not. Anything you do to shift weight off the tongue pretty much means more weight behind the axle. That is not good for stability. Indeed you could simply not bring the batteries or propane bottles along. That's not usually what people do.

Should you fret about a couple of pounds? Well, first off, is it a couple of pounds? Airstreams always have been famous for understating tongue weights. You may be a couple hundred pounds over. That said, it's generally best to stay below about 80% of the rating numbers on this sort of stuff. Put another way, if the spec is 500 pounds, 400 pounds is a good target to aim for.

The magic weight numbers are a combination of a lot of things. The hitch has a number on it. The frame (or body) where it attaches has a number on it. The rear axle and various other parts of the vehicle eventually get into the number.

That said there are a lot of different numbers. You want to be "inside" all of them. Often when you bump into one, you already have bumped into several others.

Getting back specifically to tongue weight, you have the weight of the trailer *plus* the weight of your WD / anti-sway hitch. Depending on what you buy, that can easily add another 50+ pounds to the total.

Bob

[kscherzi]

In all likelihood the trailer you have in mind when loaded has a 750 lb tongue weight. Airstream seems to low-ball their numbers, mine was about 200 lbs over.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

In all likelihood the trailer you have in mind when loaded has a 750 lb tongue weight. Airstream seems to low-ball their numbers, mine was about 200 lbs over.

So when Airstream gives you a number for tongue weight it is for a basic unit without options. If you have options the tongue weight will change. When you load the trailer it will change even more. You have to think about where you are putting all the cargo.

[waninae39]

as long as you do not exceed the max trailer and load weight, you can move heavy objects from the front to closes to over the wheels

this does not change the weight of the trailer, just moving tongue weight

for example; many people migrate from lead acid to Lion batteries
this enable them to move the batteries inside

[Bill M.]

Put me down as thinking tongue wt is a good thing for stability. I would look at how to improve the vehicle to handle the tongue wt of the heavier trailer. 500 lbs is just not much of a rating for a hitch.