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Old 03-21-2019, 08:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by PKI View Post
Ideal and available, unfortunately are different animals, because your prejudice and those of the market are influenced by the preferance of the OEMs, which is to make money.

Manual vs automatic - In the past, manual, hands down. You pick the gear and manage the change. They often had more gears available. However, the new autos (six speed to ten-speed) are very capable. Shifting on a curve was a very bad practice, but with multiple gears available, the shift change is less upsetting to stability and more effective at torque multiplication for best performance. So, if you are one of those folks who must be in control, get the manual. You will replace a clutch now and then if you are not an excellent driver, but the package is viable. If you are knowledgable enough to out think the computer, an auto will be a great solution. Some are even programmed to correctly chose the right gear before you think it's needed. Being a manual guy, I am amazed at the performance of today's autos. Try one, you may like it. I really do.

Blocking - simple answer. The lower the better, from both a profile and a center of gravity perspective. Unless you plan to spend a lot of time off road, lower ground clearance is better. Do not lift, lower the vehicle. Older designs are lower center of gravity and could be considered. TVs that meet, but do not significantly exceed, the required capacity are often lower profile and should be considered. Adjustable height suspensions are available on some vehicles and of value for dual use.

Capacity - only what you need.

Wheel size - smaller, but that is small sidewall. Tire size needs to be matched to load. Beyond that, the stiffer the sidewall can be, the better stability you will have. From a practical perspective, there is a limit to how low a profile is viable to keep pot holes at bay. A 50 series profile might be the line not to cross. The punt is simply the smaller rim and light truck 70 series tires.

Suspension - independent front and rear with wide track and rack and pinion steering. Stiff as to roll, but maybe not bounce and jounce. Assume stiff and not stiffer. Adjustable is even better.

4x2 or 4x4 - this gets more problematic. Best is 4x2 because it is more efficient and effective on paved roads. You may go to 4x4 if your use profile moves you to that decision, but understand that giving up best suspension to get 4x4 is a bad compromise. If you are getting stuck in a campground, you are staying at the wrong CGs. Disclaimer - we went with all wheel drive with torque vectoring to address bad weather travel issues. All a compromise as to best.

Brakes - best you can get. Upgrade over OEM is not a bad tactic. Exhaust brake is a consideration. Many find it saves the trailer and TV brakes. Note that trailer brakes must be applied to control sway. If you do not regularly practice that, an emergency event will not end well. Application of TV brakes in such an event is less helpful than some acceleration with trailer brake application. Bad weather TV only braking is not good either as the coach trying to pass the TV can result. So if exhaust brake use is contemplated, practice emergency actions until they are automatic rote.

Wheelbase - whatever will make a u-turn without backing and filling. Consider 120" to be the bottom of that range. Whatever length you chose, go for less overhangs and remove hitch shanks when not in use.

The ideal tow vehicle is one you own and use daily. The worst is one you have to buy and store until you tow your coach with it.

Good luck with your research. Go low and slow. Pat
Thanks Pat!

This is great!

Just what I was looking for!

With my particular needs weighed in this helps narrow (and widen come to think of it!) and confirm my choices.

I come from more rough and tumble off road sensibilities and struggle with even considering less than 32" wheels. I can hold off my desire to lift higher but even if I lose some towing performance I think having a tractor like truck a very good tool. But I'll use your list for a starting point!

Thanks again,

R44
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rounder44 View Post
Howdy!

In the market for new truck and my 4x4 back ground has me biased for well... 4x4's! May not be the best type of truck but probably what I'll end up with.

That said what are some of the basics a tow vehicle should have?

Things such as:

Wheel size; small or large

Lift: low or high

High profile or low? Is it better to be blocking for AS of slipping under...

Drivetrain: 4x4, 2x4

Suspension: off road or street performance. Stiff or stiffer!

Automatic vs. manual. I found a model I like with manual and it has a higher tow capacity! I thought a clutch would lower it..

How much over tow weight is ideal? For instance towing a 5000 lb Airstream would you notice a difference with a truck with a 6500 rating vs a 12000 tow rating?

Not worried about brands or reliability or deals per se just the basics as a shopping tool.

Thanks,

Rounder44
It exists. I have it. Subjectively, I know people reading this are already rolling their eyes. Because most people here are truck people, domestic people, rough and tumble people, traditional tow vehicle people, and certainly not Lexus people.

You don't have to like Lexus. Or Lexus design language or styling.

Objectively, hear me out.

Wheel size; small or large - Both. To your bias of off-roading, I put 33x12.5" AT tires. Dirt, snow, or tarmac. On larger 20" wheels for great sway control, yet enough sidewall to air down for real technical "difficult rated" jeep trails as I do those. Yet enough rubber for great on road traction to hold plenty of pace on secondary single lane mountain roads, because I like to drive fast. Which I also do on racetracks with my other car.

Lift: low or high - Both. The magic of modern computer controlled hydro-pneumatic suspension. Lowers 2" for easy loading/unloading/hitching. Or lifts 3"+ for technical off-roading or racing down a desert wash. This is not your unreliable "air" suspension found in other makes. 200-300k from original suspension is typical.

High profile or low? Is it better to be blocking for AS of slipping under... 33" tires without lift. Yet lowers 1" at freeway speed for even more stability. Seriously solid stability even when getting passed by rigs/busses, whether alongside or opposite on 2 lane roads...nothing. Wind, no big deal.

Drivetrain: 4x4, 2x4 Wouldn't be ultimate without being full time 4WD. Center locking diff. Low range. Crawl control to tackle any low traction situation. Always traction for the asking. Engine braking with all 4 tires.

Suspension: off road or street performance. Stiff or stiffer! Plush or stiff. Plush as a high end Lexus sedan. Always controlled and perfectly damped regardless of load, yet still plush. Flat cornering. No nose diving. Sport damping on demand. Yet slinky and 9"+ articulation for off-road technical trails. Thank modern technology and computers.

Automatic vs. manual. I found a model I like with manual and it has a higher tow capacity! I thought a clutch would lower it.. Auto. I like manuals too. But torque converters multiply torque, with uninterrupted pulling power. Better off-road too.

How much over tow weight is ideal? For instance towing a 5000 lb Airstream would you notice a difference with a truck with a 6500 rating vs a 12000 tow rating? Whatever it is, should tow with aplomb. Like my 8,500lb rated capacity does with my 27FB Airstream. It really does.

Not worried about brands or reliability or deals per se just the basics as a shopping tool. Reliability isn't even a question. It's a Toyota Land Cruiser. Lexus. Pinnacle of reliability.

Few other things:
1) Maneuverability for days with a 112.3" wheelbase. (with serious tow stability and performance, perhaps on account of its 6250 lb curb weight and wide track)
2) Daily drivable size (I daily drive mine)
3) 400HP (enough to speed up any mountain)
4) Never needed more brakes
5) Seats 8
6) 1300lb payload (yet I've been to 1800lb with 6x people and gear towing a 1000 miles over the rocky mountains. Doesn't flinch, roll, or porpoise. Overlanders exceed 2200lb payload fully armored. UN and Red Cross uses these in 4-ton configuration for warzone duty)

Cons:
- Expensive.
- Smallish 25.4 gallon gas tank. I fixed that with an aftermarket 12.5 gallon auxiliary tank for 38 gallons on board. There's optional 40 gallon tanks available for a bladder busting 65.4 gallon 700+ mile towing range.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2016...-new-ignition/

There's a slightly cheaper sister vehicle which forgoes the fancy electronic suspension - Toyota Land Cruiser
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:17 AM   #17
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Hi,I'm having a DuraBurban built in Atlanta.It is an '08 Suburban 2500 with a 2500 DuraMax/Allison running gear.Look for a post on it as soon as it is detailed out.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:45 PM   #18
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Hi,I'm having a DuraBurban built in Atlanta.It is an '08 Suburban 2500 with a 2500 DuraMax/Allison running gear.Look for a post on it as soon as it is detailed out.
Those are amazing. You will love it!
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:00 AM   #19
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I've been researching extensively on my next truck and give a nod to Ram. Just have to decide HOW much RAM one needs. I would absolutely love to have the new 2019 Ram 6.7 diesel with torque figures in the 800-1000lb range. But I don't need it.
I've found a sweet spot of 650+ lb torque in the 2010 models to be just about right. I think. On paper it looks good.
Unfortunately, the prices their asking for some of them used is within a stones throw of new 2019 2500 models.

http://www.dyeautos.com/dodge-ram-cu...-engine-specs/

The reviews for the older model on such sites as TFLtruck going up the Ike gauntlet (7% grade for 8 miles) is nice to watch as they mimic what you would be potentially hauling up such grades.
For me anything 2010 and newer seems to be a good fit. Now just have to find a great deal.

But honestly my favorite had to be the Ram 2500 Power Wagon. WAY overkill but solves all my off-road adventures.
https://youtu.be/jFX36j_5Bg8
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brandon T. View Post
I've been researching extensively on my next truck and give a nod to Ram. Just have to decide HOW much RAM one needs. I would absolutely love to have the new 2019 Ram 6.7 diesel with torque figures in the 800-1000lb range. But I don't need it.
I've found a sweet spot of 650+ lb torque in the 2010 models to be just about right. I think. On paper it looks good.
Unfortunately, the prices their asking for some of them used is within a stones throw of new 2019 2500 models.

http://www.dyeautos.com/dodge-ram-cu...-engine-specs/

The reviews for the older model on such sites as TFLtruck going up the Ike gauntlet (7% grade for 8 miles) is nice to watch as they mimic what you would be potentially hauling up such grades.
For me anything 2010 and newer seems to be a good fit. Now just have to find a great deal.

But honestly my favorite had to be the Ram 2500 Power Wagon. WAY overkill but solves all my off-road adventures.
https://youtu.be/jFX36j_5Bg8
I tow my 28 alternately with a 3.0 diesel or a 6.7 L diesel. The 3.0 L is more than enough with 455 ft-lbs of torque. A 6.7 L diesel is overkill but it's definitely cool.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:03 AM   #21
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The Ideal Tow Vehicle Would Be....

...the one you're not using. 🤔

Bob
🇺🇸
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:48 PM   #22
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...the one you're not using. 🤔

Bob
🇺🇸

Yep!

But as with me and the Tacoma wether it was set up right or not it was obvious a change of some sort was needed. I figured I could easily drop $3000 on what I think it could use or reinvest elsewhere.

I'm sure my Tundra will take me places safer and more comfortably than the Tacoma.

I just gotta stop admiring those F150's that I can't afford!

R44
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:13 PM   #23
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Aluminum Ford Excursion 4x4 with an updated 7.3, ultimate tug package, nomex seating surfaces, hosable interior, Bob Carver audio....
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:47 PM   #24
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The ideal tow vehicle would be...

One with a GVWR 1500 lbs above the tow vehicle curb weight; full time AWD (no 4x4, I want improved traction all the time); torque vectoring; no air suspension (not worth the trouble); gasoline direct injected and turbocharged for low end torque and no power loss at altitude; sport utility design (with 2 rows of seats), so it is useful when not towing, and still has reasonable luggage space in a mid size vehicle; low centre of gravity for improved handling; adaptive rack and pinion steering for better control; short rear overhang (rear axle to hitch ball) for less likelihood of sway; manual transmission; trailer sway control integrated into the vehicle dynamic stability control system, and including the ability to individually apply trailer brakes in addition to the tow vehicle brakes; full antilock braking that monitors all wheel speeds (tow vehicle and trailer) and functions across all brakes in the combination; a factory tow receiver that is strong enough to handle full FALR; power extending mirrors; integrated trailer camera option on the tow vehicle display; enhanced battery charging on descents (no battery charging when accelerating or climbing); individual tow vehicle axle height readouts on the centre display, for tuning the WD equipment, individual tow vehicle axle weight readouts on the centre display....

All possible today. The manual transmission is just a preference; a vehicle that had all the other features but with a modern automatic would do in a pinch.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:59 AM   #25
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I own the real best tow vehicle. Look me up
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:09 PM   #26
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Well that's a pretty nice tow vehicle, but it doesn't look big enough to hold your daily driver and a couple of Harleys.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:26 PM   #27
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Hi,I'm having a DuraBurban built in Atlanta.It is an '08 Suburban 2500 with a 2500 DuraMax/Allison running gear.Look for a post on it as soon as it is detailed out.
That's where I was going to go when I saw this thread, but I am dreaming of a factory 2500HD Suburban with the new 6.6 gas motor. That or the same deal in the cargo and passenger full size van.

Until then, will stick to my 2500HD truck. It is nice to have a truck bed to throw dirty and or wet things into and sort them out when you get home. But with 2 large puppies I would like a bit more cab room.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:41 PM   #28
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