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Old 07-14-2009, 06:15 PM   #43
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Occassionaly, fine...but slowing down to 35-40 mph on every trip when you live here is a whole 'nother story...

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Old 07-14-2009, 06:29 PM   #44
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I worked at Ford's Arizona Proving Ground in Yucca, Az till they closed it last year. It was a truck,desert,durability proving ground. When we did tow testing which was 10,000 miles, we loaded a trailer to max GVW for that vehicle. Anything from a F450 to an Escape.The tounge weight was set at 10-12%. We had a stop and go course,and a high speed 5 mile oval that we did on site trailer tow on. However we did about 80-90% of the 10K mile towing on public highways. On the public roads we drove to Bullhead city on highway 68,BHC is at the bottom of a 12 mile long 6% grade.The driver left the proving grounds at the start of the 8 hour shift and drove the 60 miles to BHC. for the next 5 hours they drove op and down the 12 mile 6% grade. We did that 24/7 365 days a year.In the summer 125 degree's is a routine temp along the Colorado river. We did these tests with all our trucks, and all the compediter's trucks. We always tested at 100% GVW. Never 80%. Adios, John
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:46 PM   #45
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Thats right.. you worked at the proving grounds..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel1 View Post
I worked at Ford's Arizona Proving Ground in Yucca, Az till they closed it last year. It was a truck,desert,durability proving ground. When we did tow testing which was 10,000 miles, we loaded a trailer to max GVW for that vehicle. Anything from a F450 to an Escape.The tounge weight was set at 10-12%. We had a stop and go course,and a high speed 5 mile oval that we did on site trailer tow on. However we did about 80-90% of the 10K mile towing on public highways. On the public roads we drove to Bullhead city on highway 68,BHC is at the bottom of a 12 mile long 6% grade.The driver left the proving grounds at the start of the 8 hour shift and drove the 60 miles to BHC. for the next 5 hours they drove op and down the 12 mile 6% grade. We did that 24/7 365 days a year.In the summer 125 degree's is a routine temp along the Colorado river. We did these tests with all our trucks, and all the compediter's trucks. We always tested at 100% GVW. Never 80%. Adios, John

We were out at APG for Volvo and Jaguar and Range Rover. You guys did some very thorough testing. I remember seeing trucks all covered with black masking towing something down the freeway.
Im sure my Ford was tested at 125F heat at one time but now being 15 years old going through the Mohave a few weeks ago nearly killed it! AC off.. windows down and thinking about cranking up that heater!

We made it...

Vin
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:55 PM   #46
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We were out at APG for Volvo and Jaguar and Range Rover. You guys did some very thorough testing. I remember seeing trucks all covered with black masking towing something down the freeway.
Im sure my Ford was tested at 125F heat at one time but now being 15 years old going through the Mohave a few weeks ago nearly killed it! AC off.. windows down and thinking about cranking up that heater!

We made it...

Vin
Check your rad, my 1994 1/2 DIT handles the desert well, and ice cold A/C. I love diesels in the desert! Adios, John
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:53 PM   #47
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Maybe its time to have it rodded out. I just installed a new fan clutch and Im sure that helped. Going up the back side of the Techapies was tough. Maybe the 3.55 rear axle mod from 4.10's too.. I think I should have gone with the 3.73's.

I will pull the rad out and have it checked.

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Old 07-14-2009, 11:32 PM   #48
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Maybe its time to have it rodded out. I just installed a new fan clutch and Im sure that helped. Going up the back side of the Techapies was tough. Maybe the 3.55 rear axle mod from 4.10's too.. I think I should have gone with the 3.73's.

I will pull the rad out and have it checked.

Vin
For towing I have found 3.55 to tall a gear for the Ford diesels. It lugs the motor to much. Adios, John
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:06 AM   #49
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My '05 F150 is rated to tow 8,700 lbs (Supercrew, 4X4, 5.4 liter, 3.73 gears, 18" wheels). My '03 Safari 25SS GVWR is 6300 lbs, which is 72% of the truck rating. Overall it works fine... yet in the mountains the 300 hp is merely adequate, and the transmission gets hot. My aftermarket trans temp gauge climbs to 220-230+ with only a few miles of 7% mountain grade. I have to stop on long hills and let it idle to cool down. I installed a fan on the transmission cooler, but it doesn't seem to do much (I think it's because the fan is defective - noisy bearings and not spinning very fast).

In summary, I don't know where the 80% rule came from. But I would not want any lesser of a tow vehicle than what I have now in the mountains. Flat country is much easier though.

Edit: I found this in the Ford towing guide for my truck...

Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight
assumes a towing vehicle with any mandatory options, no cargo, tongue load of 10-15% (conventional trailer) or king pin weight of 15-25%. (fifth-wheel trailer), and driver only (150 pounds). Weight of additional options, passengers, cargo and hitch must be deducted from this weight.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:16 AM   #50
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It was said before that most rigs (90%) are not connected optimally.

With these less than optimal to scary connections it is easy to see why many want to reduce the size and weight of their trailers to get a comfortable feel.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:29 AM   #51
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Go... Stop... Carry

Kind of murky water here. Flatlands vs hilly country - go and stop are a big deal. Stop less so if your camper has good brakes. A 3/4 Dodge Ram can have a Hemi with 350 ft lbs torque or a Cummins with over 600. Big difference. Max load is the same for those.
Carry is another deal. Spring rates and the robustness of other suspension parts comes into play here. All in all, for the difference in cost between a half ton and and a three quarter ton, the extra money is worth it.
Lastly, the closer you run any mechanical system to its maximum the more you decrease longevity.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:30 AM   #52
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i always considered the 80% rule as stupid. i agree with you someone just made this up. never made sense to me. everyone on here always seems to go overboard when it comes to tow vehicles.
Right or wrong, I like to stick with the rationale of remaining somewhat below the vehicle manufacturer's stated maximum tow rating simply because I think that any machine will last longer and operate more reliably if it is worked at something less than 100% of its rated maximum output.

I also have a suspicion that the manufacturer's marketing departments "push" their engineering departments to up the stated ratings for competitive reasons.

Just my approach!
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:54 PM   #53
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Ok so do you think this was an 80% setup.

YouTube - Car Pulling Trailer Smoking

sorry if this was a repost of this, I was roflmao when I saw this on another fourm
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:25 PM   #54
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man... this is getting pretty weird...

guys telling me i don't have the proper connection setup, telling me i should leave my favorite coffee mug at home, telling me i have time to creep over those passes because i shouldn't be in a rush and i'm plain stupid because i went "oveboard" on my TV

hey listen, anyone can toy their trailer with whatever you want, go to 120% if you like. tow a trailer that's 3x times the weight ov the TV. i really don't care as long as you don't kill anyone but yourself in the process... you can go up any hill 30 mph if you want as long as you let faster cars go pass whenever possible, it's all good, everyone at their own leisure.

i, for one, have to work for a living and if i want to get away for a quick weekend trip i want to get to my destination fast, comfortable and safe. almost every single trip of mine involves mountain driving and i enjoy that i have the power reserve to do so at good speeds and without any need of cooling down and pulling over. a weekend is only that long...

saftey is an hole other thing tho... i consider myself a safe driver and try to maintain proper distance etc. at all times. i'm used to driving big rigs and know the wheight involved. the other day however i had a close call where i had no choice but do a full emergency stop. no it was not predictable despite my safe driving method and looking ahead... but boy was i happy to have my "oveboard rig". i was able to avoid an accident, partially because i had reserves in my setup and was able to stop my rig on a dime, without beeing all over the road and endangering others...

i don't know my ratio but i know i'm glad i didn't push the specs on my TV setup to the max... i'm glad my trailer is about the same wheight than my TV...

and my gasmilage drops less than three gallons from no trailer to trailer...

steer axle 4240 (max spec 4800)
rear axle 4020 (max spec 6900)
trailer axle 5280
total wheight 13550 (max spec 18500)

now go out and enjoy your trips safely in whichever way you like...
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:15 PM   #55
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As a private pilot, I've been doing weight and balance calculations for quite a few years. The exercise is to insure that, when loaded, your aircraft's weight and balance fall within the certified limits. I, and most pilots, view the spec as a contract - the manufacturer certifies that a well-maintained aircraft will perform safely within the envelope, assuming normal piloting skills. I would not think twice about loading to exactly maximum gross weight rating and balance limits, but I would offload fuel, cargo, or passengers, if the number came out a single pound above it. to fly outside the ratings could be hazardous to the health of pilot and passengers, or at the very least, turns the pilot into a test pilot, which was not a risk I was willing to take. As well, legal repercussions or invalidated insurance could ensue if an incident occured and the weight/balance was found to be outside of spec.

In my calculations of which TV works with which trailer, I approach the numbers in a similar way. the R in GVWR means "rating", which is the number at which the manufacturer certifies the vehicle will perform to spec. Whatever it is, above that, you are the "test pilot" and should not be surprised if unexpected performance -whether it be maneuverability, durability, or other factor.

Steve
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:40 PM   #56
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well said steve... now how many know how much their TV or trailer really weights? i bet a lot would be surpized!
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