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Old 04-11-2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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One of the problems with using the Sherline at the ball is getting a proper height stack under the scale to support it. If you remove the extension and use the scale at the jack, what measurement point do you use to calculate the load at the ball with a dual or triple axle trailer - the center of the axle group???
After we load the trailer,(full fresh,lpg,supplies), this Spring and before I re-install the Arrow I'll weigh it directly under the ball using the extension, then again at the jack, without, note the % difference and add whenever a tongue weight is needed during the Season.
FWIW..had brain farts two out of the five seasons we've had the Arrow and never weighed at the ball, wasn't really a problem as the TW still averaged between 1150 and 1225 at the jack post. Loaded heavy for dock'n.

Bob
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
After we load the trailer,(full fresh,lpg,supplies), this Spring and before I re-install the Arrow I'll weigh it directly under the ball using the extension, then again at the jack, without, note the % difference and add whenever a tongue weight is needed during the Season.
FWIW..had brain farts two out of the five seasons we've had the Arrow and never weighed at the ball, wasn't really a problem as the TW still averaged between 1150 and 1225 at the jack post. Loaded heavy for dock'n.

Bob
That would be a nice bit of info to have. Thanks, Bob.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #17
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If you have a floor jack, set the Sherline on the cup of the floor jack then position it under the coupler and use the floor jack to lift the tongue just off the supporting post jack. Be sure the wheels are chocked. This should give you the weight on the ball with the trailer level.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:33 PM   #18
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Wish I could use the FJ, after the Arrow's on...I have to use the AS jack.


Bob
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #19
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If you have a floor jack, set the Sherline on the cup of the floor jack then position it under the coupler and use the floor jack to lift the tongue just off the supporting post jack. Be sure the wheels are chocked. This should give you the weight on the ball with the trailer level.
That'll work! I'm still curious as to where the pivot point should be located to calculate the weight at the ball when measure at the jack - which, admitedly, is the easiest place to measure the weight??? If the trailer is dead level, and both axles are equal in capacity, I would use a point midway between the axles or, in the case of a 34', centered on the center axle. If "x" is the distance from the pivot point to the jack, "y" is the distance from the pivot point to the ball, "a" is the weight at the jack, and "b" is the weight at the ball, it follows that if "a" is known, b = (ax)/y. Conversely, if b is known a = (by)/x. One axle weaker than the other could throw the calculation off - but it would still be relatively close.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #20
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....... two out of the five seasons we've had the Arrow and never weighed at the ball, wasn't really a problem as the TW still averaged between 1150 and 1225 at the jack post. Loaded heavy for dock'n.

Bob
I plan to get a Sherline and weigh the entire dead weight that's being placed on my tow vehicle receiver by leaving the spear in the Hensley and using the tongue jack to adjust the spear to the same height as the bottom of the receiver. I'll place the Sherline under the upper part of the spear at what would be the midway point when it's in the vehicle receiver; then raise the hitch jack to place the load on the scale. Does this seem reasonable?

Phil
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:37 PM   #21
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That'll work! I'm still curious as to where the pivot point should be located to calculate the weight at the ball when measure at the jack - which, admitedly, is the easiest place to measure the weight??? If the trailer is dead level, and both axles are equal in capacity, I would use a point midway between the axles or, in the case of a 34', centered on the center axle. If "x" is the distance from the pivot point to the jack, "y" is the distance from the pivot point to the ball, "a" is the weight at the jack, and "b" is the weight at the ball, it follows that if "a" is known, b = (ax)/y. Conversely, if b is known a = (by)/x. One axle weaker than the other could throw the calculation off - but it would still be relatively close.
I don't think it matters, the axles are the pivot point while towing, the trailer is un-hitched & level, there is no pivoting involved. Just weigh at both points, and add. If your using an Arrow, and you leave it installed 365, just add about 75lbs. I'll be re-installing the Arrow in a few day's and will post the actual numbers for our Classic if that will help.




"I plan to get a Sherline and weigh the entire dead weight that's being placed on my tow vehicle receiver by leaving the spear in the Hensley and using the tongue jack to adjust the spear to the same height as the bottom of the receiver. I'll place the Sherline under the upper part of the spear at what would be the midway point when it's in the vehicle receiver; then raise the hitch jack to place the load on the scale. Does this seem reasonable?"

Phil,

Keep it simple, weigh the tongue at the jack post and add 75lbs. Trailer must be level.

Bob
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:41 PM   #22
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Without looking at my AS I was thinking that the distance from the jack to the hitch ball was like 2'-0"! My bad - it's only 9". That said, it's about 18'-0" from the centerline of my axles to the jack and 18.75" to the hitch ball. The last time I measured, ready for a trip, my tongue weight at the ball was 940#. So, using the formula a = (by)/x = (940*18.75)/18 = 979.17 lbs at the jack - a difference of only 29.17 lbs. Somewhat of an academic difference for my 30' Excella ("Classic") but perhaps more significant for other hitch arrangements where the ball is effectively a greater distance from the jack. As an aside, the weight on the scale would continue to increase, as it's theoretically moved towards the axle assembly, until at some point the axles are no longer carrying any load and the scale is carrying the combined weight of the axle load plus the hitch load. That point would, of course, be at the center of gravity of the trailer. That totally exhausts my limited knowlege of statics so I'll quietly crawl back into my box and shut up!
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Question ???????

Cracker,

Just re-installed the Hensley during Spring get-ready.

Did some weighing....not loaded as it normally would be, no provisions, 2/3 lpg, empty fridge etc.

950lb at the ball, 1125, at the jack post, 15.5% difference.
Am I rong in assuming that that percentage will stay consistent when fully loaded?
How about other 25' trailers with the same distance between the jack, ball & axles?

So last year camping we had a weight at the jack post of 1250lbs, which at the ball would be 1056?

I've been a little off on my guesstimates'...

I need a Wallystein.

Bob
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:05 PM   #24
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Cracker,

Just re-installed the Hensley during Spring get-ready.

Did some weighing....not loaded as it normally would be, no provisions, 2/3 lpg, empty fridge etc.

950lb at the ball, 1125, at the jack post, 15.5% difference.
Am I rong in assuming that that percentage will stay consistent when fully loaded?
How about other 25' trailers with the same distance between the jack, ball & axles?

So last year camping we had a weight at the jack post of 1250lbs, which at the ball would be 1056?

I've been a little off on my guesstimates'...

I need a Wallystein.

Bob
Interesting! Note the big difference, percentage-wise, between my theoretical calculations and your actual measurements. What is the distance between the jack post and the ball on your AS? If it's more than the 9" I used that could be the difference. Your numbers would suggest a distance of about 2'-10" (---for a distance to the jack from the wheels of 15'-5") which just doesn't sound right.

You're right Bob - maybe we both need a Wallystein!
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:59 PM   #25
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I'm surprised too! Actually a bit relieved that my TW isn't as high as I thought after adding the bikes and rack. Yes, Bob, I think the percentage would carry through regardless of what you do with loading.

Thanks for the effort.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:22 AM   #26
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Thumbs up If it stops raining....

...I'll get those measurements and post.

I also want to get an accurate weight at the jack now that the Hensley is installed and test the % rule. Will be interesting to see how that beast effects the numbers.

I may be obsessing too much over this as I really only weigh the tongue if I suspect we are loaded + or - the norm, two, three times per Season at most.
Oh well...it IS raining.

Speaking of weight's......RIP Levon Helm. "take a load off Annie"

Bob
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:11 AM   #27
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WHAT! When did Levon Helm die???? He's one of my favorites!

Hey, Bob, shouldn't your strut be located in the bottom hole of the frame bracket?
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:06 AM   #28
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WHAT! When did Levon Helm die???? He's one of my favorites!

Hey, Bob, shouldn't your strut be located in the bottom hole of the frame bracket?

Yes Levon passed..."Music from Big Pink" one of my all time favorites.

The head is not level in the pic, when hooked-up it is parallel with the A-frame.

Here is a newbie pic when I first installed the Arrow, 4" drop and top hole, then went with the 6" and moved to the center hole.

Bob
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