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dznf0g · 07-17-2014, 07:06 AM

Personally, I don't think your HAHA is the issue. (What bars do you have?) I'd get the Airsafe first and see how that helps.

Not to start anything again, but removing the HAHA will reduce receiver weight, but not trailer tongue weight and will not reduce any stress on the tongue A-frame, and thus stop rivet popping. Lighter bars might help, but you need to transfer some pretty good amounts of weight with the heavy slide.

I need to go back and re-read what components you have.

SteveH · 07-17-2014, 08:15 AM

My experience with the ProPride (I'm sure the Hensley would be the same) was because of the increased distance between the actual ball, the pivot point, and the hitch receiver, it was difficult with a heavy trailer to get the actual weight transfer that was required. This of course had no effect on sway control, but it did on ride.

With the Reese SC I have now, and the draw bar shortened as much as possible, correct weight distribution is easily achieved. However, the sway control is not as good.

Seems my mother was right, I can't have my cake and eat it too.

Air-Texas · 07-17-2014, 09:22 AM

Are all tanks full on the scale tickets? If so, you have almost 1000# extra to do your analysis. I'd reweigh with empty tanks.
The fresh tank (most forward) full 53 gals or 443 lbs
Black next tank half full 25 gals or 221 lbs
Gray tank 25 gals another 221 lbs
HaHa 125
443+221+221+125=1010
I had all the heavy stuff on under and around the bed. I could maximize this a little bit more.
I might have to remove the 40 lbs propane tanks(about 140 lbs) and one of the batteries (63 lbs) while towing, but I really do not want to do that.
I am not 100% sure that the camper was completely level when weighted, but close.
I believe that the WD are 1000, but they are not marked. Hensley saw my pictures of them, and guessed them to be 1000s, I can only transfer at best 300 lbs with them.

Air-Texas · 07-17-2014, 11:06 AM

These are pictures of my HaHa setup.
Not to hijack, but hitch adjument does play into the weight on the truck's hitch.
__________________

Larry C · 07-23-2014, 05:10 PM

You'll like the AirSafe/Reese Dual Cam combination. Once it's set up with everything level, you will not have a sway problem.
Another bonus is, it's easy to hookup and unhook.

Adiredneck · 08-10-2014, 11:18 PM

OK, I'm a newbie here, and just bought our first AS (or any tow-behind, for that matter) so please forgive ignorance.

We bought a 2014 27FB Classic; which, according to AS has Unit Base Weight (w/LP & w/o options, water & cargo) of 6,672lbs; GVWR of 9,000lbs; and tongue weight of 792lbs. Our TV is a 2001 Dodge 2500HD long bed/reg cab w/Cummins (5spd stk). The truck is rated for a 13,700lb trailer, and the hitch receiver states that on a weight distributing hitch it will take a 10,000lb trailer and up to 1,000 tongue weight. So, supposedly, we are "in specs".

We bought it at Colonial up in NJ, and they installed an Equilizer hitch. We then drove it to the Adirondacks of NYS and then home to Mississippi, and one subsequent quick trip to the Gulf Coast - so around 2500 miles so far with no problems. Other than weight of 1/4 tank of fresh water and about 200# of clothes, dishes, etc., there was no additional weight in transit (always emptied grey and black tanks).

I haven't gotten it to a scale yet to get true weight, but it sounds like I need to, based on some of the weights posted here. I'm also a little alarmed about some people's tongue weights being so far above AS stated specs, as I supposedly only have around 200# of "wiggle room" between AS stated weight and max weight on receiver. I just read about the Shurline scale for tongue weights on this forum - is it worth the investment? Should I be looking at getting a bigger/better hitch (current one is the factory hitch)? Any/all advice welcome...

A W Warn · 08-11-2014, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

OK, I'm a newbie here, and just bought our first AS (or any tow-behind, for that matter) so please forgive ignorance.

We bought a 2014 27FB Classic; which, according to AS has Unit Base Weight (w/LP & w/o options, water & cargo) of 6,672lbs; GVWR of 9,000lbs; and tongue weight of 792lbs. Our TV is a 2001 Dodge 2500HD long bed/reg cab w/Cummins (5spd stk). The truck is rated for a 13,700lb trailer, and the hitch receiver states that on a weight distributing hitch it will take a 10,000lb trailer and up to 1,000 tongue weight. So, supposedly, we are "in specs".

We bought it at Colonial up in NJ, and they installed an Equilizer hitch. We then drove it to the Adirondacks of NYS and then home to Mississippi, and one subsequent quick trip to the Gulf Coast - so around 2500 miles so far with no problems. Other than weight of 1/4 tank of fresh water and about 200# of clothes, dishes, etc., there was no additional weight in transit (always emptied grey and black tanks).

I haven't gotten it to a scale yet to get true weight, but it sounds like I need to, based on some of the weights posted here. I'm also a little alarmed about some people's tongue weights being so far above AS stated specs, as I supposedly only have around 200# of "wiggle room" between AS stated weight and max weight on receiver. I just read about the Shurline scale for tongue weights on this forum - is it worth the investment? Should I be looking at getting a bigger/better hitch (current one is the factory hitch)? Any/all advice welcome...

Welcome to the forum!

I think your truck is sufficient for towing your trailer, with plenty of capacity to spare.
Tongue weight stated by Airstream does not include all the things you add to or take away from the trailer. So, each time you tow the tongue weight is different. I suggest you should weigh next time you go camping so you will really know. Then you can move things around inside the trailer if you need to. When you are packing, put heavy stuff down low in the trailer and toward the center. If the tongue is to heavy when you weigh, move some cargo toward the rear.

Adiredneck · 08-11-2014, 04:06 PM

Thanks, Alan!

I think I'm going to order that Shurline scale this week - that way, as loads change I can make sure I'm still within safe specs. I'm also going to keep a close watch on the hitch receiver itself - the truck spent half its life in northern New York State, and road salt has taken its toll. The trailer is a weight that the truck has never pulled before, and the weight-distributing Equalizer hitch is putting new stresses on as well. That combo could be a recipe for cracks and metal failure which wouldn't end well.

Anyone have info or opinions on the Shurline scales?

SteveSueMac · 08-11-2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

Thanks, Alan!

I think I'm going to order that Shurline scale this week - that way, as loads change I can make sure I'm still within safe specs. I'm also going to keep a close watch on the hitch receiver itself - the truck spent half its life in northern New York State, and road salt has taken its toll. The trailer is a weight that the truck has never pulled before, and the weight-distributing Equalizer hitch is putting new stresses on as well. That combo could be a recipe for cracks and metal failure which wouldn't end well.

Anyone have info or opinions on the Shurline scales?

Love the username :-)

Welcome.

I'm not sure you NEED the tongue scale as there are a couple methods you can use - one physical with a bathroom scale and other items you can easily source and another mathematical based on a procedure at the cat scales (I started a thread on that in here somewhere and got some very good info).

I'm also not sure you need to weigh it every time. A few good baseline measures and you'll have a sense for what's impacting it overall - perhaps one good new sets of weights every year to keep an eye on things and you should be good. All my opinion and worth everything you paid for it.

:-)

As for your receiver - there are some here who have upgraded to something more heavy duty to have that extra capacity and to avoid a failure in waiting (if you think it might be weakened from salt corrosion).

Larry C · 08-12-2014, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

Thanks, Alan!

I think I'm going to order that Shurline scale this week - that way, as loads change I can make sure I'm still within safe specs. I'm also going to keep a close watch on the hitch receiver itself - the truck spent half its life in northern New York State, and road salt has taken its toll. The trailer is a weight that the truck has never pulled before, and the weight-distributing Equalizer hitch is putting new stresses on as well. That combo could be a recipe for cracks and metal failure which wouldn't end well.

Anyone have info or opinions on the Shurline scales?

I fought spending the money for the Sherline scale for several years. I used the bathroom scale method for a long time, but it was mostly a pain in the rear.
The Sherline is accurate, quick, and compact. A bit on the expensive side, but worth it for piece of mind.

Larry C

switz · 08-12-2014, 08:43 AM

When I arrived at the selling dealership, I had a Shureline scale to see where we were on the tongue weight issue.

Just for reference, our 2013 25FB International Serenity had an Airstream literature tongue weight of 833 pounds. The dealer had installed street side and rear awnings and a 150 watt solar panel on the roof and filled the stock propane tanks. We installed the Hensley hitch head and put some water in the tank.

Then we checked the weight. It was 1,150 pounds. When I got the trailer home and went across the CAT scales, that number was verified.

Our Classic had a literature tongue weight of 773 pounds. After installing the ProPride hitch head and our solar system with four 92 pound batteries on the front of the trailer, tongue weight is now 1,345 pounds verified by my individual wheel scales and the Cat scales.

I suggest a trip across the scales will either put your mind at ease or encourage research on an alternative hitch for your truck.

dkottum · 08-12-2014, 09:25 AM

switz, how do you reconcile exceeding the 1,000# Airstream factory weight limit for the tongue of your trailer with your concern for numbers?

I don't think there is a need for an alternative hitch to a ProPride/Hensley hitch, there are safety advantages to be lost in control of the truck and trailer. Wouldn't it be wise to take the truck to a good hitch shop and have them evaluate or change the receiver that is on there now?

switz · 08-15-2014, 04:37 PM

The 28 Flying Cloud tongue weight is 976 pounds and the the 28 International tongue weight is 950 pounds per the 2014 Catalog. That is without propane in the tanks or any options installed. It just came off the production line, crossed 500 feet of space and entered the right of seven garage doors in the building behind manufacturing to access the scales. There is nothing else inside the trailer at that point. So filling the two 30 pound propane capacity gas tanks puts the tongue weight over the 1,000 pound rating.

When we picked up our 2013 25FB International Serenity with a literature tongue weight of 833 pounds, it had the usual optional factory package (dealer profit) plus factory approved but dealer installed ZipDee street and rear awnings and a similar to factory single 150 watt solar cell on the roof. The dealer had put a power cord and adapter under the front bed. The tongue weight exceeded 1,000 pounds.

After mounting the Hensley hitch head the tongue weight was 1,150 pounds. Loaded for camping it was nearly 1,200 pounds. None of the dealers had negative comments about that tongue weight.

My experience with trailers is a minimum of 10% to 15% of the GVW as tongue weight works the best.

Thus I have no problems with what I am currently doing with our Classic and I do not have a stiff suspension tow vehicle (all air bag suspension) and am using the ProPride recommended tow bar arms for this trailer. The factory recommended tires and wheels (16" Michelins and SenDel wheels) carry 80 psi.

YMMV

Lance M · 08-15-2014, 05:57 PM

A lot more tongue weight than I thought.

dkottum · 08-15-2014, 07:45 PM

Actually the factory hitch weight given includes full propane.

interstateflyer · 08-15-2014, 08:59 PM

I'm wondering how the accuracy of the Sherline scale is affected by the trailer being exactly level. My 2014 International 23D is parked on a dead level pad and the trailer is level to it.

I marked the electric jack shaft to indicate level. I lower the trailer to that mark. The Sherline reads 440+-. I lower it a bit more (3/8 inch +-) until the scale bottoms out and it reads 730+-.

The published tongue weight is 720. I'm assuming that is with full water tank and maxed out cargo weight. I had the tank at 1/4, propane tanks full and typical camping cargo. The cargo and water is approximately half of max allowable.

440+- pounds sounds reasonable. 730+- is surprising. By the way both results were repeatable at their given jack heights.

Which result should I believe?

BoldAdventure · 08-16-2014, 06:10 PM

That sounds about right. I thought the common thread was that Airstreams weights were under what everyone experienced in reality.

2vets · 09-06-2014, 09:48 AM

So on a whim we decided to run up to the CAT scales 40 minutes from us to get some readings. We are camping today so we had a FULLY loaded trailer including full propane tanks, fresh water tanks, full gas tank..... even the cast iron lodge cookware was in the trailer. Our 2013 Toyota Tundra 4 X 4 double cab was fully loaded with generator, chairs, gear etc. Unfortunately we did not read the forums first so we did not get a critical weight which was the weighing of the TT and TV with the weight distribution bars off. If I read the airforums correctly, that means I am unable to get an accurate tongue weight. To also add confusion to it all, the Magenta hair colored teenager running the scales may or may have not added the passenger on the first or second weighing. She instructed us we had to push the button, but I gently informed her that it was 10 feet above our heads and we were unable to easily push it. By the time I walked back to my husband in the truck I could not easily discern if she had weighed me in it or not!! I think she may have weighed me with the travel trailer hooked up but not just the tow vehicle! I weigh 150 pounds. Besides getting the actual weight of our 1960 Tradewind trailer, did we get any other useful information? The whole process was kind of hysterical, because the teenager initially told us the trailer was too small to weigh!! At this point there were trucks behind us! We will be better prepared next time! Sorry last image is upside down...I don't know how to fix it!

Ron Gratz · 09-06-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2vets

---Unfortunately we did not read the forums first so we did not get a critical weight which was the weighing of the TT and TV with the weight distribution bars off. If I read the airforums correctly, that means I am unable to get an accurate tongue weight.---

The data you obtained can be used to get an estimate of tongue weight if one assumes some TV/TT dimensions.
Assuming TV ball overhang =60" and ball to midpoint between TT axles = 220",
and assuming both sets of scales data either included or excluded the weight of the passenger,
the tongue weight is estimated to be 636# with 136# being transferred to the TT's axles.

The indicated TT weight is 10360-6220 = 4140#, giving an indicated TW% of 636/4140 = 15.4%.

Quote:

---I think she may have weighed me with the travel trailer hooked up but not just the tow vehicle! I weigh 150 pounds.---

IMO, it is not likely you were excluded from the TV-only weights.
If the recorded TV-only weights were 150# too low, the "adjusted" weight would indicate a tongue weight of only 386#. That seems too low for your TT.

Ron

A W Warn · 09-06-2014, 08:16 PM

Ron,
Would you write out the formula you used to make the calculation of the weight transferred to the TT axles, based on the dimensions you provided.
And, please elaborate on how that calculated weight might vary if the overhang was longer or shorter by just an inch or two. (I'm thinking I might drill a second hole in my hitch shank to move the ball closer to the TV, and wondering how much effect it would have)
Thanks!