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Old 07-06-2014, 07:20 AM   #71
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BTW, Steve, The hitch manufacturer has their specs too. I am assuming the we all have a ball, hitch head and drawbar rated to at least the total rolling weight of our trailers. Hopefully we don't even need to discuss that variable as a variable!
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:25 AM   #72
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Where doe one go about getting this?
"Airstream has a max limit on their tongue (the amount of weight they allow to converge at the ball/coupler)"

I found this chart at Airstream. It has a hitch weight and I do not see a max weight except for the GVWR
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...me-Weights.pdf
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:30 AM   #73
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Rus, I'll have to look again, I think it is in the owner manual....or on the closet door with the max GVWR.

Update: Page B8 of my owner manual says,"The tongue weight should be in between 10% - 15% of total trailer weight, but must not exceed 1000 pounds..."
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:25 AM   #74
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From my 2012 Flying Cloud manual. This is why I asked the questions I did. Tongue SHOULD be 10%, MUST NOT exceed 1000, and UNDER NO CONDITION should it exceed the hitch rating...


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Old 07-06-2014, 09:53 AM   #75
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Maybe we could agree on terminology/method and move on!

I suggest:
  • Trailer tongue weight = trailer weight (dead load measured at the hitch ball or jack)
  • Gross tongue weight = trailer tongue weight + hitch and sway devices (the dead load applied to the tow vehicle)
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:40 AM   #76
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We're very close:

I suggest:
Trailer tongue weight = trailer weight (dead load measured at the hitch ball or jack)measured at the ball (it's not that hard to apply the formula) My concern is the inaccuracy of weighing at the jack + the inaccuracy of some HAHA/PP linkage pieces and spring bars on everything else, might be as much as 10% error on larger trailers like mine and maybe as much as 15 - 20% on small Bambis


Gross tongue weight (I suggest "receiver load weight" Everyone is clear that the black thingy under the bumper is a receiver...Gross tongue weight might still confuse some) = trailer tongue weight + hitch and sway devices as well as anything else attached to the drawbar, stinger, or receiver, like mudflaps, or bike racks/bikes for example (the dead load applied to the tow vehicle)
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:13 AM   #77
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For whatever it's worth, seems to me that this has evolved into an elaborate discussion of PP, and HaHa hitches. After reading each and every post, a couple times, it seems that everyon is pretty much saying the same thing, and trying to impress the others how much, and in some cases how little they really know about hooking up, properly adjusting the hitch, and then actually pulling the trailer they have.
Every hitch, has essentially the same components, and they pretty much all work the same way, it's simply how they are attached to the TV and the trailer.
A couple, and I emphasize, a couple pounds one way or another isn't going to make a perceptable difference, as long as the TV and the trailer are level, with the WD (trunnion) bars properly adjusted.

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Old 07-06-2014, 11:26 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
From my 2012 Flying Cloud manual. This is why I asked the questions I did. Tongue SHOULD be 10%, MUST NOT exceed 1000, and UNDER NO CONDITION should it exceed the hitch rating...


Attachment 215752
This really makes it interesting. Is the hitch assembly considered tongue load in their recommendation? Then if you're adding generator, bikes, extra batteries, or carrying gold bars in the front of your Airstream you may be putting more stress on the A-frame, it's welds, and the coupler mechanism than Airstream has designed it to carry.

We worry about truck payload, axles, tires but seldom if ever think about that limitations of the Airstream A-frame assembly. Should we be paying more attention to Airstream's statement on tongue weight?
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:29 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry C View Post
For whatever it's worth, seems to me that this has evolved into an elaborate discussion of PP, and HaHa hitches. After reading each and every post, a couple times, it seems that everyon is pretty much saying the same thing, and trying to impress the others how much, and in some cases how little they really know about hooking up, properly adjusting the hitch, and then actually pulling the trailer they have.
Every hitch, has essentially the same components, and they pretty much all work the same way, it's simply how they are attached to the TV and the trailer.
A couple, and I emphasize, a couple pounds one way or another isn't going to make a perceptable difference, as long as the TV and the trailer are level, with the WD (trunnion) bars properly adjusted.

Larry C
Not true at all.
HAHA and PP are discussed because they are much heavier and are "stored" on the coupler.
A couple pounds may not make a difference, but what about what people aren't considering which adds to TW. Solar panels, extra batteries, gennies stored behind the propane tanks, etc.

Sooner or later a couple extra pounds are the ones which "break the camels back". Usually with AS it starts as mysterious front panel rivet pops, or an unexplained wrinkle in the front panel, or, in my case, wear noted in the lower molding extrusion there there has been contact with the A-frame while flexing going down the road. Was too much TW responsible? Partly...in addition to 1000# EQ spring bars adding their dynamic load to the A-frame.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:35 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
This really makes it interesting. Is the hitch assembly considered tongue load in their recommendation? Then if you're adding generator, bikes, extra batteries, or carrying gold bars in the front of your Airstream you may be putting more stress on the A-frame, it's welds, and the coupler mechanism than Airstream has designed it to carry.

We worry about truck payload, axles, tires but seldom if ever think about that limitations of the Airstream A-frame assembly. Should we be paying more attention to Airstream's statement on tongue weight?
YES....I always have, but I guess I'm just nuts???? The next paragraphs in the manual shows weighing at the post with a "naked" a-frame. They seem to avoid the hitch discussion and refer you to the hitch mfr. Typical and understandable. That's why we're on our own to use and discuss our personal experiences and knowledge from other walks in our lives to gain understanding. But I guess some folks think that's just showing off. Nonetheless, I will always pursue the correct way to do things. to protect my property, wallet, and safety.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:57 PM   #81
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Hitch head weight is not tongue weight because most of it doesn't reside on the tongue, however as the tow vehicle sees it, it's all weight behind the bumper that it must carry.

Pretty simple as I see it.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #82
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Hitch head weight is not tongue weight because most of it doesn't reside on the tongue, however as the tow vehicle sees it, it's all weight behind the bumper that it must carry.

Pretty simple as I see it.
I agree, it is pretty simple, and common sense would (should) tell a person if his trailer weighs 8,000 pound, he wants a tongue weight 10% of trailer weight, or around 800 pounds or slightly above.

That shouldn't be hard to accomplish. If PP or HaHa hitches cause that much concern and arguement, why mess with them in the first place?

Larry
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:37 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Larry C View Post
I agree, it is pretty simple, and common sense would (should) tell a person if his trailer weighs 8,000 pound, he wants a tongue weight 10% of trailer weight, or around 800 pounds or slightly above.

That shouldn't be hard to accomplish. If PP or HaHa hitches cause that much concern and arguement, why mess with them in the first place?

Larry
But if he mistakenly weighs his tongue, inclusive of 160# of hitch head (not inc. stinger) and the scale shows 800#s of his 8000#s, he actually has roughly only 710ish#, (considering head/box only as non-TW) or 9% of total load. Below minimum requirement of AS.

They don't cause "concern and argument", they prompt "gaining proper understanding and discussion".

Should be the case regardless of setup chosen and purchased, IMO.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:41 AM   #84
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Is it wrong to think in terms of hitch weight rather than tongue weight? If my hitch is rated for 1200 pounds, shouldn't I be measuring the weight of everything that is connected to the hitch from the tow bar back to the trailer regardless of where it is actually attached (towbar or tongue)? So, a trailer with an advertised empty tongue weight of say 600 pounds. Add to that the WD hitch at maybe 150 lbs and anything in the trailer including water, waste water, gear, propane, etc....and then come up with the total weight that is being placed on the hitch.
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