Rivian Electric Truck and SUV

[jcl]

There are lots of EV manufacturers other than Tesla. Our next vehicle is likely to be a German built SUV EV. We won't consider the US manufacturers, especially GM/Ford/FCA, as they are too slow to enter the market.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

There are lots of EV manufacturers other than Tesla. Our next vehicle is likely to be a German built SUV EV. We won't consider the US manufacturers, especially GM/Ford/FCA, as they are too slow to enter the market.

Tesla doesn’t indicate trends in the auto industry any more than the AMC Pacer did. And the subsidy argument keeps coming up on here even though the tax credit on EVs is gone. The real “subsidy” over the past 50 years is fuel prices that are artificially low. If we paid what everyone else does things would be a lot different.

I don’t like government interference any more than the next guy, but one benefit has been little turbo 4 cylinder engines that make 300 hp. I don’t miss my 460 that made 180 horsepower and got 8 mpg. And the best is yet to come.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Tesla doesn’t indicate trends in the auto industry any more than the AMC Pacer did. And the subsidy argument keeps coming up on here even though the tax credit on EVs is gone. The real “subsidy” over the past 50 years is fuel prices that are artificially low. If we paid what everyone else does things would be a lot different.

I don’t like government interference any more than the next guy, but one benefit has been little turbo 4 cylinder engines that make 300 hp. I don’t miss my 460 that made 180 horsepower and got 8 mpg. And the best is yet to come.

BIG OIL DOES NOT GET GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES! Not sure where you heard that nonsense. Read below:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin.../#271148e26e1c

Also other EV's get subsidies. And why would I by a foreign car that can't be fixed in my locality?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

BIG OIL DOES NOT GET GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES! Not sure where you heard that nonsense. Read below:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin.../#271148e26e1c

Also other EV's get subsidies. And why would I by a foreign car that can't be fixed in my locality?

Independent sources beg to differ. Your link is an infomercial from a company called Drilling Info. Perhaps broaden your sources. Using non political ones, and ones that don’t represent industries with vested interests, are a good idea.

We have had so many decades of fossil fuel subsidies that many think of them as normal. They aren’t. They warp the market. And when we fail to recognize the externalities (especially those related to environmental and public health issues) we compound it.

I regularly hear people complain about changes to transportation and energy sources and use the term social engineering, not considering that we are living a reality created by social engineering. It is the fishbowl problem, where being inside it makes it difficult to recognize it.

There is no need for you to buy a foreign car that can’t be fixed in your locality, if that is what you want to do. What you shouldn’t expect is that everyone else fund your personal choice. If we all paid the true costs, we would be better positioned to make better decisions. That would imply fewer large, heavy, single occupant vehicles, lower pollution and GHG emissions, a healthier society, and so on.

The first step is to stop demonizing people like Musk because he is somehow ruining it for those that enjoy the status quo. I don’t pity Tesla owners. I pity those who think that they can opt out of the changes that are in process. Changes that are long overdue.

[eStreamer]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

For one thing Tesla is now in financial trouble. Why? Because the subsidy is ending soon which makes buying an EV less desirable. They are going to try and sell that $35,000 Tesla via the internet to cut costs. Close storefronts, etc. Yet they have said they can’t make any money at $35,000. I pity the Tesla owners out there right now. Tesla isn’t going to close the doors right away, but it doesn’t look good.

This would be my concern with Rivian. What kind of market will their be for an EV pickup. I’d say it’s going to be very narrow at this point.

I’m not saying that EV vehicles aren’t a good idea. I think they are a great idea. But until the Big 3 start producing them there’s going to be problems. And there’s probably a good reason they aren’t doing it: no profit.

This is why government subsidies are terrible by the way. It created an artificial market. Tesla put something on the market that wasn’t really profitable and ready for mass production and mass appeal. It was enabled by subsidies. Unless it can bring down production costs considerably once those subsidies are taken off......not good.

Not to be rude but what do you know about Tesla's finances??? As an actual Tesla owner, and someone who bought in above a 100k price point I can tell you I wouldn't trade my Model X for an ICE vehicle. There is nothing like the acceleration of a higher end EV. It's viscious, and fun. As someone who has literally driven across the US and Canada in our X, there isn't a better vehicle in my mind, period. Everyone I've ever had in our car was very interested in buying one.

Also as someone who owns a PHEV Ford CMax I can tell you, the difference is massive. Why does it have to be the Big 3 who design one for it to work? I haven't seen the Big 3 design many extraordinary cars in the past 20 years. The reason they aren't building EV's is they are half-hearted. They design cars no one dislikes but no one really likes looks wise either (the Bolt is a perfect example). The reason they can't compete well in EV's is they don't think outside the box like Tesla and are years behind in battery technology. The efficiency ratings of the mainline automakers batteries compared to Tesla are about 25% less efficient. On top of that they are behind in things like OTA updates, autonomous driving features and charging network.

Now Tesla has built a sexy, affordable EV in the Model 3 and people still complain they aren't doing things right. I'm not exactly sure what they need to do to make the naysayers happy.

[eStreamer]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Hundred years and still waiting. It will not happen in anyone's lifetime commenting on this thread.
EV will never be able to compete with the ICE.
Wind, Solar , EV are all forcefed onto society. When and if the time ever comes that they can outcompete in the market place then I will consider them a success.

Have you ever driven an EV? Have you ever driven a great EV like a Tesla? As an actual Tesla owner (and a Ford CMax PHEV) I can tell you I'm not going back to an ICE (and this is coming from someone who owns a classic Mustang as well) car, EVER. The performance difference is superior to the point of not even being comparable to an equivalent ICE vehicle. I have a deposit on a Rivian and waiting to see what Tesla Truck looks like and then will decide between the two, but our current F150 is the last ICE truck I own.

[eStreamer]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

I think EV’s have their place. And in the next 10 years they will become more predominant. But I do know that their range decreases considerably in cold environments. And what about with a 7500lbs on the back end towing? And what about mountain towing? Too many questions and concerns. Not going to get excited about this just yet.

This is why you see Rivian with a 180KW battery pack. My guess is Tesla will fit a 200KW battery pack to their truck. Range cuts in about half with towing a heavy load so you are still looking at around 200-300 miles on a full charge with that size pack. I can speak from experience from towing with our Model X. Cold weather does have an impact on range too, but again it varies on the level of cold. Our Tesla is pretty resilient, even in the snowy cold Colorado mountains I see about a 20 - 25% range penalty, nothing that gives me range anxiety, especially with the number of supercharging stations available now. With the size battery packs being put in these trucks, I think the range concerns will be fairly small for your typical camping trip (plus the bonus you can charge up on the 30-50 amp pedestal at your campsite instead of putting a full tank or two of gas in your truck).