Can the effective tongue weight on a 25 Classic or Safari be lessened by loading the rear of the trailer with gear? The twin bed models have great space between the beds for this purpose.
The tongue weight will decrease as weight is added behind the axel.
Will this cause problems, you bet!
The most common cause of sway in a trailer is lack of weight on the tongue.
I had this happen to me years ago with a popup trailer that I loaded with heavy stuff in the rear. The trailer was uncontrollable at freeway speeds. I realised what I had done, moved some stuff around and the sway was gone.
I am no expert, but the best place to load weight in the traler is in the middle over the axles and balanced side to side. It is not a good idea to try to decrease the tongue weight by overloading the rear. Balance weight is always better for safety and reliabilty. After you load your AS correctly, the tongue weight should be consistent with your trailers original tongue weight figure plus additional weight based on how much you loaded your AS. The general rule is that the tongue weight should be between 10% and 15% of the total weight of the trailer.
This my be helpful. I bought a 25' Airstream that had been transported to Germany and back. While in Germany, weight was added to the rear bumper(almost 300 lbs of steel plates). All to lower the tongue weight to meet German standards, which was a wt of under 150 kilos (about 330 lbs or there abouts).
Net result was the previous owner had the trailer go out of control, jack-knife and damage several body panels.
I then entered the picture and picked the trailer up for a song (or so I thought). The repair work was done at P&H in Helena, Ohio and I had the axles realigned at the Airstream factory. The good news is I now have a like new trailer (also had it stripped and clearcoated by P&H), bad news is the cost was over $13,000 plus the purchase price.
In short I would load the trailer as the owners manual recommends (in the middle of coach, I think) and not get creative.
No one was injured in this instance but they were lucky.
From the smallest U-Haul to Airstreams, the location of axles on American made trailers dictate that 10-15% of the gross trailer weight must be on the tongue. If you go below 10% you can reach major instability that is absolutely awful to experience. It isn't too noticeable at low speeds; ie, below 30mph. The trailer starts swaying and you're lucky if the hitch holds up or both TV & trailer don't end up in the ditch. The closest analogy would be to take a paper airplane and try throwing it backwards.
In the article on the Airstream Europe projects, "Airstream Life" noted that Euro requirements are different as kenny2 says. Axle location is different, tongue weight is much lighter, and their hitches are really different by our way of thinking -- they don't have weight distribution the way we'd define it.
Can the effective tongue weight on a 25 Classic or Safari be lessened by loading the rear of the trailer with gear? The twin bed models have great space between the beds for this purpose.
Can you do it? Yes. Should you do it? No.
It will make a horribly unstable rig. One of our local RV dealers misloaded a fifth wheel trailer this way once, and the rig didn't get a mile up the road before it had flipped. The owner of the rig was seriously injured, and the trailer and tow vehicle were totaled.
__________________
Terry You repair things with tools. You fix things with a hammer.
AIR#2611
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
Always glad to see smart people asking smart questions, getting smart answers and then making a smart decision. Good job FranzB.
IF the trailer weights 6000lbs and has a tongue weight of nearly 900lbs loading CAN influence this number....
it is possilble with careful packing (like not putting 5 cases of beer up front)...
to reduce the tongue mass and still not violate the 10% rule....
my 34 factory tongue weight isn't much more than the 25 classic franzb was considering....
fully loaded my 34 weights nearly 11,000lbs. i've weighed the tongue while moving stuff inside the trailer....still keeping it over or near the axles...
tongue weights vary several hundred lbs upto 1500lbs....which is over the limits for my hitch.
so i load the trailer to achieve a tongue mass of 1100-1200lbs exactly....
moving cases of water, beer, coffee and tools, or holding waste in a tank longer, to make this variation...
mass doesn't have to be as far back as the bumper to accomplish this variation...
franzb...
i agree with what roadkingmoe posted in your other thread....
find the trailer model you really like and get it. don't buy something to fit the titan....unless you only plan to camp 1-2 times per year.
if you really want a specific unit, not getting that unit will haunt you every camping trip....all the time.
and you still won't be able to carry toys or much gear in the titan, without being over limit...
yes dealer can do the bunk bed conversion...will they? only if you pay for it....
if ya want the bunks have the factory do the bunk option... and get it done right.
cheers
2air'
__________________ all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.johnson
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
Last edited by 2airishuman; 11-06-2006 at 09:18 PM.
I have to agree with azflycaster:
Don't try to take the weight off the tongue by adding it to the back. I produce a home show for the local homebuilder's association. When we were wrapping up one show a few years ago, I told the crew to load some displays into the back of a covered utility trailer. Later in the day, I stopped by the venue, hitched up and headed out (Yep, I forgot to open the trailer and inspect the load).
All the light weight stuff was in the nose, and all the heavy displays were set just inside the back doors. I climbed a hill leaving the site...then started down the other side. Doing about 50 mph the trailer decided it was in control. At first I was sure I had blown a tire as the trailer was swinging trying to pass the truck on the left, then on the right. I managed to get it settled down, and after getting back on flat road, pull over and check. No blown tires.
I took it easy to my destination and parked it. Unhitched, I discovered there was almost no weight on the hitch the way it was loaded.
No damage, but the lesson was learned - I always check the loading before leaving.
jim
__________________
Jim & Karen
Newport, Oregon USA
AIR 7860
WBCCI #4362
Member, Oregon Unit 090
Affiliate Member, Washington Unit 112
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
If you are splitting hairs on tongue weight, me thinks you may be dangerously overloaded with you choice of TV and TT???
I would suggest a little further investigation of you choices...
No one here wants to have you attempt something dangerous. See the posts above about sway, tipping over etc.
Towing an AS (or SOB) can be a safe, and certainly enjoyable endeavour. Proper selection of a TV is paramount.
What ever questions you may have, there are many experienced folks on this board willing to help.
Bill
__________________
Life is Good-Camping all around New England
I would agree with 2air' -- you should be able to put some body english on your loading and any normal camping load placed aft should not reduce tongue weight below 10%. The published tongue weights as a percent of UBW are 12+% for the Safari 25, 10+% for the Safari 25 SS, and 11+% for the Classic 25.
You should rely on an actual weight measurement of your loaded trailer. Your manual will show how to weight the hitch with a bathroom scale but you'll also need to know the loaded trailer's weight too. (search on CAT scale, especially noting 2air's thread)
Having noticed your other thread with questions about the SS:
1. Experience with owners of that unit suggest the Hehr Safari windows can be disliked in the long run. Only a bottom portion of the window can open and circulation is nothing like the hinged-at-the-top windows of the Classics or Special Editions. My old Argosy windows have top hinging and I love 'em! Our 25' Special Edition easily sleeps a 3rd tall person on the roadside couch while leaving the dinette free -- but there won't be any of this most popular model sitting around dealer lots with closeout discounts.
2. At least the SS corner bed is 6" wider than the 19' Bambi corner bed, but these corner beds have to be laid in to fully realize how much space the person against the wall loses. Don't just do this over the phone -- IMO you need to see & "feel" the trailer to buy into the proposition.
Otherwise ... loading with the SS starts out about 100# less than the Classic. Please do the math.
Quick Links
Decreasing tongue weight
Linear Mode
