Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-06-2006, 04:11 PM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Reducing Tongue Weight by Loading Rear of AS

Can the effective tongue weight on a 25 Classic or Safari be lessened by loading the rear of the trailer with gear? The twin bed models have great space between the beds for this purpose.
__________________

__________________
FranzB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 04:17 PM   #2
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,125
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
The tongue weight will decrease as weight is added behind the axel.
Will this cause problems, you bet!
The most common cause of sway in a trailer is lack of weight on the tongue.
I had this happen to me years ago with a popup trailer that I loaded with heavy stuff in the rear. The trailer was uncontrollable at freeway speeds. I realised what I had done, moved some stuff around and the sway was gone.
__________________

__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 04:50 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
TIMEMACHINE's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Huntington Beach , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,293
Images: 2
Don't do it

I am no expert, but the best place to load weight in the traler is in the middle over the axles and balanced side to side. It is not a good idea to try to decrease the tongue weight by overloading the rear. Balance weight is always better for safety and reliabilty. After you load your AS correctly, the tongue weight should be consistent with your trailers original tongue weight figure plus additional weight based on how much you loaded your AS. The general rule is that the tongue weight should be between 10% and 15% of the total weight of the trailer.

John
__________________
TIMEMACHINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 04:58 PM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
1972 Argosy 20
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1979 30' Argosy
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 91
Thumbs down Decreasing tongue weight

This my be helpful. I bought a 25' Airstream that had been transported to Germany and back. While in Germany, weight was added to the rear bumper(almost 300 lbs of steel plates). All to lower the tongue weight to meet German standards, which was a wt of under 150 kilos (about 330 lbs or there abouts).
Net result was the previous owner had the trailer go out of control, jack-knife and damage several body panels.
I then entered the picture and picked the trailer up for a song (or so I thought). The repair work was done at P&H in Helena, Ohio and I had the axles realigned at the Airstream factory. The good news is I now have a like new trailer (also had it stripped and clearcoated by P&H), bad news is the cost was over $13,000 plus the purchase price.
In short I would load the trailer as the owners manual recommends (in the middle of coach, I think) and not get creative.
No one was injured in this instance but they were lucky.
__________________
kenny2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 06:19 PM   #5
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
From the smallest U-Haul to Airstreams, the location of axles on American made trailers dictate that 10-15% of the gross trailer weight must be on the tongue. If you go below 10% you can reach major instability that is absolutely awful to experience. It isn't too noticeable at low speeds; ie, below 30mph. The trailer starts swaying and you're lucky if the hitch holds up or both TV & trailer don't end up in the ditch. The closest analogy would be to take a paper airplane and try throwing it backwards.

In the article on the Airstream Europe projects, "Airstream Life" noted that Euro requirements are different as kenny2 says. Axle location is different, tongue weight is much lighter, and their hitches are really different by our way of thinking -- they don't have weight distribution the way we'd define it.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 07:13 PM   #6
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB
Can the effective tongue weight on a 25 Classic or Safari be lessened by loading the rear of the trailer with gear? The twin bed models have great space between the beds for this purpose.
Can you do it? Yes. Should you do it? No.
It will make a horribly unstable rig. One of our local RV dealers misloaded a fifth wheel trailer this way once, and the rig didn't get a mile up the road before it had flipped. The owner of the rig was seriously injured, and the trailer and tow vehicle were totaled.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 08:07 PM   #7
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
__________________
FranzB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 08:15 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
TIMEMACHINE's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Huntington Beach , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,293
Images: 2
Good results

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
Always glad to see smart people asking smart questions, getting smart answers and then making a smart decision. Good job FranzB.

John
__________________
TIMEMACHINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 08:21 PM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
Elizabeth , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 76
U-haul recommends that 65% of weight be in front of the axle ON ANY SIZE TRAILER.
__________________
stagecoachbill
WBCCI #5345
62 Globe Trotter 19'
69 Sovereign 31'
04 E-350 Van 6.0 diesel
stagecoachbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 09:14 PM   #10
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Always glad to see smart people asking smart questions, getting smart answers and then making a smart decision. Good job FranzB.

John

John, You're too kind.

Regards,

Franz
__________________
FranzB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 09:59 PM   #11
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
that's all well and good but the point is....

IF the trailer weights 6000lbs and has a tongue weight of nearly 900lbs loading CAN influence this number....

it is possilble with careful packing (like not putting 5 cases of beer up front)...

to reduce the tongue mass and still not violate the 10% rule....

my 34 factory tongue weight isn't much more than the 25 classic franzb was considering....

fully loaded my 34 weights nearly 11,000lbs. i've weighed the tongue while moving stuff inside the trailer....still keeping it over or near the axles...

tongue weights vary several hundred lbs upto 1500lbs....which is over the limits for my hitch.

so i load the trailer to achieve a tongue mass of 1100-1200lbs exactly....

moving cases of water, beer, coffee and tools, or holding waste in a tank longer, to make this variation...

mass doesn't have to be as far back as the bumper to accomplish this variation...

franzb...
i agree with what roadkingmoe posted in your other thread....
find the trailer model you really like and get it. don't buy something to fit the titan....unless you only plan to camp 1-2 times per year.

if you really want a specific unit, not getting that unit will haunt you every camping trip....all the time.

and you still won't be able to carry toys or much gear in the titan, without being over limit...

yes dealer can do the bunk bed conversion...will they? only if you pay for it....

if ya want the bunks have the factory do the bunk option... and get it done right.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 12:57 AM   #12
Argosy/Airstream since 79
 
OreExcella's Avatar
 
1989 29' Excella
Newport , Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 97
Don't make your Airstream a teeter-totter

I have to agree with azflycaster:
Don't try to take the weight off the tongue by adding it to the back. I produce a home show for the local homebuilder's association. When we were wrapping up one show a few years ago, I told the crew to load some displays into the back of a covered utility trailer. Later in the day, I stopped by the venue, hitched up and headed out (Yep, I forgot to open the trailer and inspect the load).

All the light weight stuff was in the nose, and all the heavy displays were set just inside the back doors. I climbed a hill leaving the site...then started down the other side. Doing about 50 mph the trailer decided it was in control. At first I was sure I had blown a tire as the trailer was swinging trying to pass the truck on the left, then on the right. I managed to get it settled down, and after getting back on flat road, pull over and check. No blown tires.

I took it easy to my destination and parked it. Unhitched, I discovered there was almost no weight on the hitch the way it was loaded.

No damage, but the lesson was learned - I always check the loading before leaving.

jim
__________________
Jim & Karen
Newport, Oregon USA
AIR 7860
WBCCI #4362
Member, Oregon Unit 090
Affiliate Member, Washington Unit 112
OreExcella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 07:10 AM   #13
1 Rivet Short
 
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay , Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,547
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB
Thanks to all for the great advice. I've modified my choice of Safari model to one with a lower hitch weight to stay within TV payload specs and thus eliminate the need to dangerously rear load the trailer.
If you are splitting hairs on tongue weight, me thinks you may be dangerously overloaded with you choice of TV and TT???
I would suggest a little further investigation of you choices...
No one here wants to have you attempt something dangerous. See the posts above about sway, tipping over etc.
Towing an AS (or SOB) can be a safe, and certainly enjoyable endeavour. Proper selection of a TV is paramount.

What ever questions you may have, there are many experienced folks on this board willing to help.

Bill
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
BillTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 08:19 AM   #14
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
I would agree with 2air' -- you should be able to put some body english on your loading and any normal camping load placed aft should not reduce tongue weight below 10%. The published tongue weights as a percent of UBW are 12+% for the Safari 25, 10+% for the Safari 25 SS, and 11+% for the Classic 25.

You should rely on an actual weight measurement of your loaded trailer. Your manual will show how to weight the hitch with a bathroom scale but you'll also need to know the loaded trailer's weight too. (search on CAT scale, especially noting 2air's thread)

Having noticed your other thread with questions about the SS:
1. Experience with owners of that unit suggest the Hehr Safari windows can be disliked in the long run. Only a bottom portion of the window can open and circulation is nothing like the hinged-at-the-top windows of the Classics or Special Editions. My old Argosy windows have top hinging and I love 'em! Our 25' Special Edition easily sleeps a 3rd tall person on the roadside couch while leaving the dinette free -- but there won't be any of this most popular model sitting around dealer lots with closeout discounts.
2. At least the SS corner bed is 6" wider than the 19' Bambi corner bed, but these corner beds have to be laid in to fully realize how much space the person against the wall loses. Don't just do this over the phone -- IMO you need to see & "feel" the trailer to buy into the proposition.

Otherwise ... loading with the SS starts out about 100# less than the Classic. Please do the math.
__________________

__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear Air bags PeterH-Airstreamer Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 24 11-12-2007 07:02 PM
Rear bath mirror! niftypkg General Interior Topics 1 04-10-2007 09:52 PM
How Much Weight Will The Tongue Hold?? Astro Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 3 06-25-2006 07:48 AM
Tongue Weight and Stability Steve Heywood Hitches, Couplers & Balls 22 06-15-2006 12:24 AM
Tongue Tied CHRIS CANNON Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 0 09-30-2002 09:44 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.