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Old 11-07-2006, 10:55 AM   #15
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After spending hours yesterday re-analyizing floorplans and our immediate camping needs, the Safari SS w/ bunk is our best choice- better than the the Classic or Safari 25 w/ twins. Additionally we do not want a trailer in excess of 25 ft.

-The dinette is a feature we would like and most people on these forums feel strongly about having that feature.

-I'm 6'3" 235lbs. and while I can FIT on the twin bed, I do roll over frequently and think a wider bed (I'll be on the bottom bed in the SS) and one without the elbow whacking nightstand would be preferable.

-Based on months of watching inventories at dealers, RVTrader, Ebay, etc. the twin bed models are CLEARLY the least popular- didn't used to be, but are now. This DOESN'T mean that you avoid one if you want one, this DOES mean that most people prefer non-twin confirugations. Resale- I would venture to guess that if I roll into a dealer in 5 years and want to trade in my Safari SS they would be much more interested in it than a twin bed model.

-We have all winter to search inventories and try to find the DEAL. There ARE deals on all models including Safari SS- instock or special ordered. Diligence, patience and cash deal/no trade are virtues to understand, respect and utilize.

-I fully understand the differences between the Classic & Safari lines. The Classic is better- no question. I't's also heavier, more expensive and, MOST IMPORTANTLY doesn't offer the floor plan we really want.

Virtually everyone has said "Buy the trailer you really want." After exhaustive research we believe that the Safari SS is the one "we really want." Fortunatley we have months to let that reonate before we need to make a move. The Classic deal needs to be consumated within 72 hours.

THE question to ponder. If we had a Duramax/Allison in the garage would we choose the Classic 25. At this point I think we would choose the Safari SS.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:38 AM   #16
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tongue weight

Okay, I'm a little confused by all the "don't do it" replies. If he has a very high tongue weight and the trailer is within gross weight and he moves some items rearward and now has an acceptable tongue weight why is the trailer all of a sudden going to crash? I fly helicopters and we do this all the time. To me tongue weight is a groundpounders way of saying you have a forward center of gravity. If he has an observed tongue weight of say 1200 lbs and shifts 200 lbs aft and sees a new scale reading of 900 lbs, why is the trailer going to go out of control? I thought correct tongue weighting was the way we kept "sway" under control. I realize that putting 1000 lbs on the rear bumper will screw things up, but shifting weight aft of the tongue and then checking the new tongue weight is what he's talking about. Please help me out if I'm wrong
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasafari
Okay, I'm a little confused by all the "don't do it" replies. If he has a very high tongue weight and the trailer is within gross weight and he moves some items rearward and now has an acceptable tongue weight why is the trailer all of a sudden going to crash? I fly helicopters and we do this all the time. To me tongue weight is a groundpounders way of saying you have a forward center of gravity. If he has an observed tongue weight of say 1200 lbs and shifts 200 lbs aft and sees a new scale reading of 900 lbs, why is the trailer going to go out of control? I thought correct tongue weighting was the way we kept "sway" under control. I realize that putting 1000 lbs on the rear bumper will screw things up, but shifting weight aft of the tongue and then checking the new tongue weight is what he's talking about. Please help me out if I'm wrong
I believe the motivation was to modify tongue weigth in an attempt to reach an acceptable weight in a marginal situation. If I were over by 100#, I would not want to try to shift 101# off the bumper by playing with weight inside the trailer.
When loading a vehicle, which has proper capacity (not borderline) do many of us place items in particluar spots inside to achieve or maintain proper tongue weight (read; sway control) and good balance?
You bet!

But I would not use weight shifting as a way of obtaining less hitch weight in order to stay under that rating with a marginal TV.

To the original poster; have you factored in the WD hitch?
I saw no mention in your posts and this will effect your ratings...
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:02 PM   #18
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This thread has had a variety of responses, it seems as though it stems from responders perceptions of the original question. Is he talking about loading (overloading) the bumper area or merely shifting a little bit of cargo aft to acheive the CORRECT tongue weight. My read is that it is the latter. Don't we all do that?
Go back and re-read 2Air's response and Canoe Streams response. IMHO they are both well thought out and go to the original question.
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:11 PM   #19
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I apologise in advance to those with a good understanding of basic applied math. They should ignore the rest of this post.
The original post talks of placing items to the rear of the axle to lessen the tongue weight. I would never do this, but I would happily move items within the area in front of the axle to achieve the correct tongue weight. If these choices are examined purely in terms of centre of gravity, there would appear to be no difference in the two procedures. However, IMHO, the vital difference is in terms of what we call "moment of inertia". Put one of your twin grandkids at each end of a 10 foot seesaw. The kids each weigh the same. The centre of gravity of the combined kids is at the center of the pivot of the seesaw. Pump one end of the seesaw up and down with your hand, and see how much effort is involved. It takes a fair effort.You are feeling the "moment of inertia" of the system. Now get the two kids to slide into the center, so they are both sitting as close to the pivot as possible. The center of gravity of the kids and seesaw is still in the center. Take hold of the end of the seesaw again, and pump it up and down. Much easier! You are feeling a lesser "moment of inertia".
When a trailer is rolling (the roof moving from side to side), yawing (we Airstreamers call this "swaying"), or pitching (the hitch coupling moving up and down as we drive over a bump), the moments of inertia of the trailer about its axes crucially affect its responses to outside influences such as passing semis, gusts of wind, uneven road surfaces. (The three axes are: front to back, left to right, and top to bottom)
It's rather more complex than examining the position of the center of gravity, IMHO. The above seeks to explain why I won't place anything heavy behind the axles, and will adhere very precisely to the recommended tongue weight and position of heavy loads, as recommended by the skilled Airstream engineers in the owner's manual.
Nick.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:18 PM   #20
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Well said

nickcrowhurst has summed it up well. It's all about balance, the rules were written a long time ago, just follow them and all will be fine.

John
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Old 11-11-2006, 01:37 PM   #21
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Tongue weights.

A proper tongue weight should be between 10 to 15 percent of the total gross weight of the trailer.

NEVER, EVER, add anything the the raer of a trailer to reduce it's tongue weight.

If in doubt where to add extra weight, keep it forward of the axles.

Obviously the closer added payload is placed to the front of the trailer, the greater effect it will have on the tongue weight increase.

Depending on the added payload, placing it near the axles or totally up front, depends on what and how much weight.

If you wish to stop and buy 500 pounds of watermelons, then obviously you would place them as far forward as you can, so that when you stop, they don't move forward.

For short runs or short periods of time, a tongue weight of up to 20 percent is OK.

Obviously, when then tongue weight changes, an adjustment on how much tension is placed on the torsion bars, must also be changed.

An adequate tongue weight is required, that makes the trailer sway. That sway is controlled (removed) by transfer of weight and an additional sway control device.

A little to no tongue weight also makes the trailer sway. However, since there is little to no weight to work with, the sway will continue in an unsafe manner.

Yes adding just a sway control would help, but not nearly enough to give you towing stability, nor nearly enough to keep you from very easily losing control.

Andy
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