Ram Eco Diesel settlement

[Glassman484]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

How do you have trouble with just a 25? Were you trying to go 65 up a long 6 percent grade? I do have 3.92 & a tune but if I stick to 3k which is about 55 I can take an 8k 30' Classic up a long grade and stay below derate. Do you have tall tires and one of the restrictive grills?

Yea might be $3k to you for FCA not disclosing the conditions such as cold starts etc where the truck would not meet emissions requirements. Well unless they had filed for approval first. I think the final hearing is on Jan 23rd. Eventually you will be able to take the truck to the dealer get an updated tune and have a check sent to you.

Vern, my 2016 truck has standard 20” factory wheels and tires, 3.55 axle, and 7610 tow capacity. Yours (and a couple others owned by friends) have the 9200/3.92 tow package, and I’m sure the tune helps too. The FC25, at about 6600lbs., plus 200-300 cargo in the bed, gets the rig up near capacity.
Should still work and it does but, for instance, westbound on 58 through the Tehachapis on 5/6% grades, I was in the truck lane at 45/5th gear, trying to keep the oil temp below 240 degrees and coolant below 225. This was the first long trip with the trailer, and after several earlier trips up I5 with the bed loaded (absolutely no issues and great mileage) I was surprised at how hot it runs. Going up a 10% (as I remember) twisting grade out of Austin, NV, we were at 30 mph and 244deg. Oil, third gear. Slow is fine there, but it felt like the fuel limiterwas kicking in.

Of course my big mistake was getting the truck before the trailer. Didn’t have a plan to get a 25 (we were thinking maybe a bambi) and wasn’t tuned in to the trailering packages. But at this point, rather than changing out axles/tuning, I’ll eat some dollars and move up to a 3/4 ton TV.
Happy Trails!

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Glassman484

for instance, westbound on 58 through the Tehachapis on 5/6% grades, I was in the truck lane at 45/5th gear, trying to keep the oil temp below 240 degrees and coolant below 225.

If you want a heavier truck, then that is your choice, but that doesn’t seem hot to me. It and many other modern engines are designed to run far hotter than older designs.

I believe the thermostat isn’t even fully open until that coolant temperature. 20 more and the AC turns off, and a ways above that it derates itself, to preserve the engine, before you even see a warning light.

[stevenson748]

The Temps you had are similar to what I experienced this summer. I have 26 RB and 2016 ecodiesel with 3.92 rear axle, and on long climbs around Asheville, NC the oil temp reached 250 degrees. It dropped right away cruising down hill, so this normal for modern diesel. I have engine tune as well, so I plan on going for FCA reflash and take the $3000 and extended warranty. I then I will have my engine tune re flashed.

[MojoRisen]

Kinda sounds like an overpriced VW scam. Wonder if engineers talked with the boys from Audi about diesel emissions work a rounds around the same time?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by MojoRisen

Kinda sounds like an overpriced VW scam. Wonder if engineers talked with the boys from Audi about diesel emissions work a rounds around the same time?

Well, the charge against FCA was fraud, so the word scam fits.

Both FCA and the European manufacturers involved in scamming customers used Bosch engine controls; Bosch wrote the cheat code, and Bosch is paying part of the settlement, so there was definitely sharing of information.

[VernDiesel]

Glassman fwiw T-stat fully opens at 224 fans kick on at 226-228.
Computer can start to step in fuel derate at 245 coolant.
Also can start fuel derate above 266 oil. A full synthetic oil such as we use has no issue with these temps.

Big Horns and another one have restrictive grills per published data by GDE. I switched for the factory SLT grill cheap and easy and it did make a noticeable difference on my Big Horn.

I have been westbound through Tehachapis a few times with RVs and once with a large boat & bed load that scaled 15,060 CVW. It is a good long 5 & 6 percent winding climb and often hot. Mine with 3.92 tune & 31.9 tires climbs at 55 holding to 3k so that I never have heat issues. 55 is a fast enough climb on a route like that for me but some push their equipment hard and think they have to climb grades at 65 & 70 mph. Not me I watch the temp guage & hold it down to 3k rpms so it never de-rates which might be a reason my ED just turned 500,000 miles.

55 on a climb 65 on the flats averages 15 mpg with an AS factory trailer brake controller and turbo brake I'm good with it. Looking forward to the 2nd gen motor this summer. Expect they will have bearing issues and heat issues resolved.

[Glassman484]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Glassman fwiw T-stat fully opens at 224 fans kick on at 226-228.
Computer can start to step in fuel derate at 245 coolant.
Also can start fuel derate above 266 oil. A full synthetic oil such as we use has no issue with these temps.

Big Horns and another one have restrictive grills per published data by GDE. I switched for the factory SLT grill cheap and easy and it did make a noticeable difference on my Big Horn.

I have been westbound through Tehachapis a few times with RVs and once with a large boat & bed load that scaled 15,060 CVW. It is a good long 5 & 6 percent winding climb and often hot. Mine with 3.92 tune & 31.9 tires climbs at 55 holding to 3k so that I never have heat issues. 55 is a fast enough climb on a route like that for me but some push their equipment hard and think they have to climb grades at 65 & 70 mph. Not me I watch the temp guage & hold it down to 3k rpms so it never de-rates which might be a reason my ED just turned 500,000 miles.

55 on a climb 65 on the flats averages 15 mpg with an AS factory trailer brake controller and turbo brake I'm good with it. Looking forward to the 2nd gen motor this summer. Expect they will have bearing issues and heat issues resolved.

Thanks for the temp info. I couldn’t pry that out of anyone at the dealer/FCA, nothing published that I could find. You obviously know the truck and engine through 500k of experience!
I agree, 55mph at 3k is fine for a long grade like through the Tehachapis, I’m not one to have to go fast just because.
I’ve driven enough work trucks in my career, loaded and sometimes with trailers, to feel when a rig is maxed and can’t be pushed harder. Even when geared down properly (and I like the 8 speed, does a nice job of it), there doesn’t feel like enough to hold even 55, the power fades. So maybe my stock setup - 3.55, 240/420 hp/torque, no max tow package isn’t quite right for my rig around 7000lbs. Seems everyone else has 9200 capacity but mine only 7610.
At the time I purchased I wasn’t really thinking about trailers so it wasn’t on my radar. When we did start looking ar airstreams I certainly paid attention to towing and hitch ratings and the FC25 worked on paper. In hindsight I would have gone for the higher tow rating, I’m sure it would work just fine, and I do like the truck for everyday driving. BTW I got 15.5 towing on a 2700 mile trip, and have as high as 27.5 on trips not towing!
I’ll look at the ‘19 model too, when it comes available, but with towing...
Also will see what FCA does with the official announcement.

[VernDiesel]

Good write up. Mine a 4 door is rated for a max tow of 8,800. I think this is a good number. In my experience 8k is about the practical max for a TT and the half ton platform due to suspension & axle ratings even with a good scaled setup regardless of some of the astronomical numbers they put with some 1/2 tons these days.

[Tuco]

I would like to thank all you EcoDiesel owners that have posted your real world numbers and experience. It has been most enjoyable, well done!

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Good write up. Mine a 4 door is rated for a max tow of 8,800. I think this is a good number. In my experience 8k is about the practical max for a TT and the half ton platform due to suspension & axle ratings even with a good scaled setup regardless of some of the astronomical numbers they put with some 1/2 tons these days.

Vern - your real world experience speaks of vast common sense! Thanks for your input.

[VernDiesel]

For anybody with an ED who has a marginal towing experience but loves and wants to keep the truck. Tune tires & grill together helps a lot and is a reasonable investment where as switching to 3.92 isn't at least with a 4WD.

I run a little shorter 275/55/20 XL load tire such as comes on the the 2019 Ram & newer Fords & GMs at least. Its an incremental improvement in both stability and gearing. You can get a $50 box that corrects speedo/odometer for tire height but many don't bother as its still very close. Factory SLT grill & aftermarket grill are a direct swap.

GDE & PPEI both have full ECM level tunes so that they can keep factory safety parameters and re-tune it in a proper fashion. As opposed to just fooling some parameters with a piggy back tune. Both also have a turbo brake feature which is real beneficial towing in hilly terrain. Naturally their is still also warranty & government concerns to consider.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

For anybody with an ED who has a marginal towing experience but loves and wants to keep the truck. Tune tires & grill together helps a lot and is a reasonable investment where as switching to 3.92 isn't at least with a 4WD.

I run a little shorter 275/55/20 XL load tire such as comes on the the 2019 Ram & newer Fords & GMs at least. Its an incremental improvement in both stability and gearing. You can get a $50 box that corrects speedo/odometer for tire height but many don't bother as its still very close. Factory SLT grill & aftermarket grill are a direct swap.

GDE & PPEI both have full ECM level tunes so that they can keep factory safety parameters and re-tune it in a proper fashion. As opposed to just fooling some parameters with a piggy back tune. Both also have a turbo brake feature which is real beneficial towing in hilly terrain. Naturally their is still also warranty & government concerns to consider.

Can you add a little more information and real world experience/feel of how this works please?

[VernDiesel]

Say I get to the top of a long 6% grade at 50 mph and want to keep that speed for the descent. I can set the cruise at 50 mph and it will hold that speed to a 6000 pound trailer without requiring use of the truck brakes pending road conditions.

Beyond a 6K trailer or steeper grade may require supplement from the factory TBC trailer brake controller. Best use of turbo brake, TBC, & truck brakes depends on the combination of road conditions weight of load & grade. That’s generally speaking as where your weight is at truck trailer which axle quality of hitch connection tires traction even TBC gain setting all play some part at the limits. You just have to take it easy at first until you get the feel for it.

Once you do it’s very reassuring knowing you have the best possible control, speed control, & braking. Also knowing your truck brakes can stay cool & ready in case of an emergency stop situation. GCVWR is up to 15,950 on the 4th gen. I’ve had to 15,800 per scale slip on a 6 percent on good dry road & could easily control speed without use of the truck brakes or heating up the trailer brakes.

My original truck brakes lasted 293k but the 2nd set only 177k. So utilizing but not abusing your turbo brake & TBC can really help your truck brakes to last. Also truck foot brakes can be used to engage turbo brake as well as cruise control. Tow haul should be used in part as it helps the turbo brake & transmission brake work harmoniously in engagement & in controlling descent speed.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by stevenson748

The Temps you had are similar to what I experienced this summer. I have 26 RB and 2016 ecodiesel with 3.92 rear axle, and on long climbs around Asheville, NC the oil temp reached 250 degrees. It dropped right away cruising down hill, so this normal for modern diesel. I have engine tune as well, so I plan on going for FCA reflash and take the $3000 and extended warranty. I then I will have my engine tune re flashed.

My 17 ram with a 6.7...3:54....oil temp. runs near the water temperature...just like my E model cat in the KW.....maybe the little engine is being overworked...oil cooled pistons...

[my3sonsdad]

This settlement comes about a year too late for me. While I’ll take the $3000 cash settlement, I’ll still be out $1000 for a bad ED system design.

Last year I had to have the DEF tank replaced due to a faulty sensor which registered near “empty” after filling the DEF tank. Oh, and an ED Jeep won’t start when it detects “empty” and there is no workaround according to FCA. Now the settlement’s extended warranty would cover this. However, my cost was $4000 for parts & labor.

[Margesbarge]

Ecodiesel owners,

I know many have had great experiences and some have had horrible experiences with the Ram ecodiesel. I'm one of the great experiences, but am now in a place to decide whether or not to keep the truck.

Our lease on this truck is up in June, we are under our allotted miles and either looking to keep the ecodiesel or get a new Ram Hemi lease, or perhaps flip sides to the Ford F150 3.5 ecoboost (though this is unlikely since I do like the 2019 Ram)

I have three questions:
1. If I end my lease early, before it is up in June, will I be excluded from the settlement as a lessee? The language on ecodieselsettlement.com is confusing at best. It's $990, so I'd like to not lose that (that'd cover our cost of fuel for this summer's trips!)
2. What issues have people been having with '16 ecodiesels? We love the 2016 ecodiesel and in my research I have seen many of the issues arising in '14 and '15 models. We have had zero issues over 30,000 miles. It still has it's factory powertrain warranty for another 2 years and the settlement warranty for 4 years after that. (Interesting the settlement warranty doesn't cover the camshaft...)
3. Our residual is $26k. That's about $2.5k higher than trade in value, but about $3-4k under what we'd be able to buy the same truck from the dealer.

What would you do? Buyout? Trade in now? Wait until lease expires in June?

We have averaged 15.5mpg towing over the 4,500 miles we've towed our AS. When not towing we've averaged 27.5 on the highway (3.92 gears) and overall 23mpg with most daily miles being in the city. Going to a '19 Ram with the Hemi I'll never see those mpgs again. Fuelly reports almost no one hitting the 21mpg its supposed to get.

Thoughts and comments appreciated.

[VernDiesel]

1. I don't know the answer to the $990 but you have until June X to find out. Someone at the ram1500diesel site could tell you. I would at least wait until June to let go of that truck. Sounds like its been the perfect truck for summer Airstreaming and that you enjoy it a lot. Transporting them daily with this truck I have to agree.

2. The camshaft thing never proved out just an interesting guy that like to tinker and do you tube videos. In the first 3 year 100,000 unit run you can't find 3 actual examples searching the internet.

3. I would consider buying the truck and averting emissions issue and more via GDE or PPEI tune and since you tow add the turbo brake option. Its wonderful and very reassuring in the mountains. Having used the GDE tune for nearly 500,000 miles now and seeing cleaner oil, better mileage, better power etc etc. Its a no brainier to me on a truck you own.

The 5th gen with 2nd gen ED engine is said to be a 2020 available for order in June with the first hitting dealerships in the fall. So you also might have the option of ordering a new ED come your June date and then being allowed to keep your existing ED until your new one arrives. Pictures & info at the link below.

https://5thgenrams.com/ram-1500-ecod...-updates-news/

[Rocinante]

Have you called the dealer and/or RAM to get clarity on what it takes for you to qualify for the $990 settlement cash? Seems better than asking a bunch of random highly opinionated folks who probably don't have the facts about that issue (e.g. folks like me).

[AirstreamJim]

My reading of the owner notification I received for the settlement is that you must be the original owner/lessee AND have the vehicle in your possession at the time you get the check in order to get the maximum settlement. If you sell or turn in your leased vehicle before the recall fix is applied, you get a much smaller settlement amount.

And try not to have the vehicle totaled in an accident before the recall fix is applied because you won’t get the maximum settlement if you do. 😕

Jim

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

FCA specifically stated that “ I, for one, will gladly take the settlement, especially given the issue I had with the engine in my Grand Cherokee (catastrophic engine failure at 25K miles).
Jim

Damn, glad I sold that EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee when I did...