Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-12-2019, 05:43 PM   #15
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 233
How do you have trouble with just a 25? Were you trying to go 65 up a long 6 percent grade? I do have 3.92 & a tune but if I stick to 3k which is about 55 I can take an 8k 30' Classic up a long grade and stay below derate. Do you have tall tires and one of the restrictive grills?

Yea might be $3k to you for FCA not disclosing the conditions such as cold starts etc where the truck would not meet emissions requirements. Well unless they had filed for approval first. I think the final hearing is on Jan 23rd. Eventually you will be able to take the truck to the dealer get an updated tune and have a check sent to you.
__________________

__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2019, 06:50 PM   #16
3 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2009 19' International
Aptos , California
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VernDiesel View Post
"I do wonder what the EPA does with the billions it collects from manufacturers." I'll take a shot, um shall we say "re-invests it" back into things that lead to more regulation more gov control more insidious projects and to further make Mfgs have to bow to the evil empire of totalitarian type governance instead of to serve the citizens interests through the free market. Insult to injury the costs placed on Mfgs by government has to be passed onto the next consumer. A purely evil cycle. Seems communist strategies have been secreted into our free market system.
Monies actually collected as a result of EPA actions goes to the US Treasury. They pay it out for things like, oh I donít know, maintaining the highways you drive down, for instance

It must really bum you out when you drive down an Interstate Highway or any of the highways with a US in front of them, like I80 or US 101.

Live your principals, stay on state and country roads. Or are those too communist for you too?
__________________

brad1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2019, 06:54 PM   #17
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by VernDiesel View Post
Yea might be $3k to you for FCA not disclosing the conditions such as cold starts etc where the truck would not meet emissions requirements. Well unless they had filed for approval first. I think the final hearing is on Jan 23rd. Eventually you will be able to take the truck to the dealer get an updated tune and have a check sent to you.
The issue wasnít cold starts, it was excessive pollution under normal and expected operating conditions. One example was driving at highway speeds, when the EGR was being turned off.

They would not have received approval if they had disclosed the software defeat devices, as those defeats applied to expected operating conditions. Exceptions arenít permitted under those conditions. This wasnít a failure to disclose issue.

We probably wonít get much more information until the criminal trial concludes, though. The VW execs got jail time for a very similar situation, and that was after they pled guilty and cooperated. FCA appears to not be accepting responsibility.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 05:09 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
2012 19' International
Southeastern MI , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1 View Post
Monies actually collected as a result of EPA actions goes to the US Treasury. They pay it out for things like, oh I donít know, maintaining the highways ...?
Yeah, sure they do. Anyway, I know where the money comes FROM: everyone who buys a new vehicle.
Countryboy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 07:38 AM   #19
3 Rivet Member
 
TRIPPPIN's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Southwestern Ontario , Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 200
Images: 5
Send a message via MSN to TRIPPPIN Send a message via Yahoo to TRIPPPIN
Has anyone heard of a conclusion to the Mercedes Bluetec diesel case similar to the FCA one with accusations of defeat software?
TRIPPPIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #20
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIPPPIN View Post
Has anyone heard of a conclusion to the Mercedes Bluetec diesel case similar to the FCA one with accusations of defeat software?
The EPA investigated, but then didn’t prosecute. That may be related to changes at the EPA related to changes in the US government since 2016. States that have been frustrated with that have filed their own suits, like New Jersey and Arizona, and those suits continue. There are also civil suits in the works, but no conclusion. In the mean time, Mercedes has pulled all diesel models from its lineup in North America.

What regulators in Europe found and prosecuted were multiple defeat devices in Mercedes vehicles, including one that turned the emission controls off under 50 F (the test is run above that) and another that counted elapsed distance from engine start and turned the controls off after 16 miles (the distance test is less than that). The differences in having controls on or off is dramatic. One test measured offending vehicles at 91 times the legal limit. Clean diesel? People have been had.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 11:29 AM   #21
1 Rivet Member
 
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Sebastopol , California
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by VernDiesel View Post
How do you have trouble with just a 25? Were you trying to go 65 up a long 6 percent grade? I do have 3.92 & a tune but if I stick to 3k which is about 55 I can take an 8k 30' Classic up a long grade and stay below derate. Do you have tall tires and one of the restrictive grills?

Yea might be $3k to you for FCA not disclosing the conditions such as cold starts etc where the truck would not meet emissions requirements. Well unless they had filed for approval first. I think the final hearing is on Jan 23rd. Eventually you will be able to take the truck to the dealer get an updated tune and have a check sent to you.
Vern, my 2016 truck has standard 20” factory wheels and tires, 3.55 axle, and 7610 tow capacity. Yours (and a couple others owned by friends) have the 9200/3.92 tow package, and I’m sure the tune helps too. The FC25, at about 6600lbs., plus 200-300 cargo in the bed, gets the rig up near capacity.
Should still work and it does but, for instance, westbound on 58 through the Tehachapis on 5/6% grades, I was in the truck lane at 45/5th gear, trying to keep the oil temp below 240 degrees and coolant below 225. This was the first long trip with the trailer, and after several earlier trips up I5 with the bed loaded (absolutely no issues and great mileage) I was surprised at how hot it runs. Going up a 10% (as I remember) twisting grade out of Austin, NV, we were at 30 mph and 244deg. Oil, third gear. Slow is fine there, but it felt like the fuel limiterwas kicking in.

Of course my big mistake was getting the truck before the trailer. Didn’t have a plan to get a 25 (we were thinking maybe a bambi) and wasn’t tuned in to the trailering packages. But at this point, rather than changing out axles/tuning, I’ll eat some dollars and move up to a 3/4 ton TV.
Happy Trails!
Glassman484 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 01:59 PM   #22
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassman484 View Post
for instance, westbound on 58 through the Tehachapis on 5/6% grades, I was in the truck lane at 45/5th gear, trying to keep the oil temp below 240 degrees and coolant below 225.
If you want a heavier truck, then that is your choice, but that doesnít seem hot to me. It and many other modern engines are designed to run far hotter than older designs.

I believe the thermostat isnít even fully open until that coolant temperature. 20 more and the AC turns off, and a ways above that it derates itself, to preserve the engine, before you even see a warning light.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2019, 10:53 AM   #23
2 Rivet Member
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Fort Myers , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 63
The Temps you had are similar to what I experienced this summer. I have 26 RB and 2016 ecodiesel with 3.92 rear axle, and on long climbs around Asheville, NC the oil temp reached 250 degrees. It dropped right away cruising down hill, so this normal for modern diesel. I have engine tune as well, so I plan on going for FCA reflash and take the $3000 and extended warranty. I then I will have my engine tune re flashed.
stevenson748 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2019, 11:51 AM   #24
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
SLC , Utah
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5
Sounds familiar

Kinda sounds like an overpriced VW scam. Wonder if engineers talked with the boys from Audi about diesel emissions work a rounds around the same time?
MojoRisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2019, 12:19 PM   #25
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoRisen View Post
Kinda sounds like an overpriced VW scam. Wonder if engineers talked with the boys from Audi about diesel emissions work a rounds around the same time?
Well, the charge against FCA was fraud, so the word scam fits.

Both FCA and the European manufacturers involved in scamming customers used Bosch engine controls; Bosch wrote the cheat code, and Bosch is paying part of the settlement, so there was definitely sharing of information.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2019, 11:46 PM   #26
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 233
Glassman fwiw T-stat fully opens at 224 fans kick on at 226-228.
Computer can start to step in fuel derate at 245 coolant.
Also can start fuel derate above 266 oil. A full synthetic oil such as we use has no issue with these temps.

Big Horns and another one have restrictive grills per published data by GDE. I switched for the factory SLT grill cheap and easy and it did make a noticeable difference on my Big Horn.

I have been westbound through Tehachapis a few times with RVs and once with a large boat & bed load that scaled 15,060 CVW. It is a good long 5 & 6 percent winding climb and often hot. Mine with 3.92 tune & 31.9 tires climbs at 55 holding to 3k so that I never have heat issues. 55 is a fast enough climb on a route like that for me but some push their equipment hard and think they have to climb grades at 65 & 70 mph. Not me I watch the temp guage & hold it down to 3k rpms so it never de-rates which might be a reason my ED just turned 500,000 miles.

55 on a climb 65 on the flats averages 15 mpg with an AS factory trailer brake controller and turbo brake I'm good with it. Looking forward to the 2nd gen motor this summer. Expect they will have bearing issues and heat issues resolved.
__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 09:00 AM   #27
1 Rivet Member
 
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Sebastopol , California
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by VernDiesel View Post
Glassman fwiw T-stat fully opens at 224 fans kick on at 226-228.
Computer can start to step in fuel derate at 245 coolant.
Also can start fuel derate above 266 oil. A full synthetic oil such as we use has no issue with these temps.

Big Horns and another one have restrictive grills per published data by GDE. I switched for the factory SLT grill cheap and easy and it did make a noticeable difference on my Big Horn.

I have been westbound through Tehachapis a few times with RVs and once with a large boat & bed load that scaled 15,060 CVW. It is a good long 5 & 6 percent winding climb and often hot. Mine with 3.92 tune & 31.9 tires climbs at 55 holding to 3k so that I never have heat issues. 55 is a fast enough climb on a route like that for me but some push their equipment hard and think they have to climb grades at 65 & 70 mph. Not me I watch the temp guage & hold it down to 3k rpms so it never de-rates which might be a reason my ED just turned 500,000 miles.

55 on a climb 65 on the flats averages 15 mpg with an AS factory trailer brake controller and turbo brake I'm good with it. Looking forward to the 2nd gen motor this summer. Expect they will have bearing issues and heat issues resolved.
Thanks for the temp info. I couldn’t pry that out of anyone at the dealer/FCA, nothing published that I could find. You obviously know the truck and engine through 500k of experience!
I agree, 55mph at 3k is fine for a long grade like through the Tehachapis, I’m not one to have to go fast just because.
I’ve driven enough work trucks in my career, loaded and sometimes with trailers, to feel when a rig is maxed and can’t be pushed harder. Even when geared down properly (and I like the 8 speed, does a nice job of it), there doesn’t feel like enough to hold even 55, the power fades. So maybe my stock setup - 3.55, 240/420 hp/torque, no max tow package isn’t quite right for my rig around 7000lbs. Seems everyone else has 9200 capacity but mine only 7610.
At the time I purchased I wasn’t really thinking about trailers so it wasn’t on my radar. When we did start looking ar airstreams I certainly paid attention to towing and hitch ratings and the FC25 worked on paper. In hindsight I would have gone for the higher tow rating, I’m sure it would work just fine, and I do like the truck for everyday driving. BTW I got 15.5 towing on a 2700 mile trip, and have as high as 27.5 on trips not towing!
I’ll look at the ‘19 model too, when it comes available, but with towing...
Also will see what FCA does with the official announcement.
Glassman484 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 08:24 PM   #28
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 233
Good write up. Mine a 4 door is rated for a max tow of 8,800. I think this is a good number. In my experience 8k is about the practical max for a TT and the half ton platform due to suspension & axle ratings even with a good scaled setup regardless of some of the astronomical numbers they put with some 1/2 tons these days.
__________________

__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ram Eco diesel vs. F-150 3.5 Eco-boost Vagante Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 43 06-25-2015 03:16 PM
New Ram Eco-Diesel Making Owners Sick! TheDuke Tow Vehicles 32 03-08-2015 11:43 PM
2014 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel RamblinManGa Tow Vehicles 2 02-11-2014 10:43 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.