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Old 07-31-2017, 02:04 PM   #1
Rich and Kat
 
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2017 30' Classic
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RAM 2500/3500 Brakes

Just wondering if anyone else out there was questioned whether their braking/stopping power is sufficient. I've got a 2016 RAM 3500 SRW Crew Cab w/ 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel.

I'm pretty sure that it's under-braked. The dealer told me "it's perfectly normal for hydraulic brakes."

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with my stopping power.

Anyone else?

Thanks,
Rich
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:18 PM   #2
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I haven't had any problems with brakes on my 2017 RAM 2500 either towing or not towing my 2017 Classic 30. Granted the truck doesn't break like my Mini Copper or BMW Z4 but the truck is obviously heavier and bigger then my previous vehicles and I expected that.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:19 PM   #3
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Truck empty, loaded or loaded and hitched up?
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:19 PM   #4
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I have a 2015 Ram 2500. I have to admit the view times solo I've had to pull up sharp for a red light I had to apply more brake pressure than I would have liked but then I noticed the same on my previous 2010 Tundra.

When connected to the trailer that feeling of stopping power feels better because of the trailer's brakes.

I'm not concerned with it as most of the time when I drive it solo I feel the brakes seems to work fine. I'm not one to drive it hard when solo. I've had the antilock come on on a wet road once.

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Old 07-31-2017, 02:58 PM   #5
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I replied to your post on other thread. See that first.

In addition, have you tested? Truck with minimum necessary tire pressure and TT at sidewall maximum (Truck value needs separate test to verify pressure value).

Find an empty road on a Sunday. Warehouse district maybe. Use markers. What is full on emergency stop distance for truck solo?

What is distance when hitched?

Full fuel, water, propane and representative loadings.

These numbers should be close.

Forty and more years ago we could get combined rig to stop faster than car solo
(Rigs were 12-13k combined)

Get a baseline.

I'd also try to achieve FALR given the truck bed is loaded. Get it (thus trailer axles) high as reasonably possible.

We used the 1/3 rule back then. That much of TW went to each axle location, with bias in favor of Drive Axle.

Rough in at home and then use CAT Scale for real numbers. Three pass method.
Pics of rig in profile while on scale would be good. Looking for level.

Though not directly related, I'd upgrade shocks to the better Bilsteins or Fox.

.
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Old 07-31-2017, 07:22 PM   #6
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Thanks slowmover. I like this analysis and I'll have to do it ... For what it's worth, I don't like the way the truck stops (errrr, doesn't stop) ... without towing and with an empty bed. No tire screeching ... just spongy nothingness. There've been a time or two that I had to STAND on the brakes with both feet. I need to drive far more defensively in the truck than in any other vehicle I've ever had. Granted the 3500 weighs much more than its predecessors, but my 2002 F250 PSTD, 2011 F150, and 2016 1500 all stopped the way I would have expected them to. This one just doesn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
I replied to your post on other thread. See that first.

In addition, have you tested? Truck with minimum necessary tire pressure and TT at sidewall maximum (Truck value needs separate test to verify pressure value).

Find an empty road on a Sunday. Warehouse district maybe. Use markers. What is full on emergency stop distance for truck solo?

What is distance when hitched?

Full fuel, water, propane and representative loadings.

These numbers should be close.

Forty and more years ago we could get combined rig to stop faster than car solo
(Rigs were 12-13k combined)

Get a baseline.

I'd also try to achieve FALR given the truck bed is loaded. Get it (thus trailer axles) high as reasonably possible.

We used the 1/3 rule back then. That much of TW went to each axle location, with bias in favor of Drive Axle.

Rough in at home and then use CAT Scale for real numbers. Three pass method.
Pics of rig in profile while on scale would be good. Looking for level.

Though not directly related, I'd upgrade shocks to the better Bilsteins or Fox.

.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:44 AM   #7
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I've been assuming the truck has been in service more than one year, and that the system has been bled with fresh fluid.

I wouldn't call mine easy to stop, but it's in no way "spongy".

At the very least, test the solo distance. Measure.

Are your tires set to reflect actual load solo? I'd do that first. Heaviest tire on an axle determine pressure according to L&P Table but inside vehicle manufacturer range.

No more than 5-psi higher after test for pressure rise.

This doesn't fix problem but it does maximize contact patch.

What tire and model?

.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:05 AM   #8
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The tire pressure rise test needs 1.5-hrs steady state driving. (Roll to easiest stop possible and check for pressure rise. 5-7% okay. 10% needs more air).

As weighing the truck beforehand (max fuel plus driver) with first just axle readings, and then one side of truck off of scale for second reading; third reading is opposite side; get the Cat Scale app. When done, go inside to fuel desk for all three tickets.

The test run would also be good for checking best solo mpg as a baseline. Run 59-60 with cruise control. Plan in advance the place to turn-around and make that also the place to check pressures. (Above sixty and fuel economy plummets. This is also to see what is potential highest mpg).

Roughly 100-miles each way. Refill truck to first click-off same as first time. Note engine hours to get in habit of checking Average MPH.

The lash up of most rigs isn't ideal. And the same test with the rig hitched up will show a percentage difference. Just remember to try and drive the same way (not just cruise control speed) in both tests. Doesnt need to be same day or anything. Just always start and end at same truckstop fuel pump.

An AS "ought" to be about 40% or a little less as a penalty from solo. Were it 46%, at 60-mph in each test, something, somewhere needs inspection.

Better WD settings can result in a mpg or two if off. Etc.

Average mph with trailer will be slower. Bonus points for non-level terrain and traffic (backing off to maintain space) as it's a more accurate test.

Every rig needs a baseline of numbers. Future diagnosis and problem solving depend on good descriptions. And numbers are just that.

Suggesting take advantage of current problem to shoehorn in a similar test. Combine.

Numbers allow for predictions, also.

Finally, see if there isn't a braking distance test somewhere with a current generation Dodge one ton.

.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:48 AM   #9
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I would definitely start with bleeding the brake lines as there should be no sponginess. I have a 2009 3/4 ton and the truck stops fine. I flush new brake fluid through the system every 2 or 3 years. Sometime this fall I will likely flush the power steering/brake hydroboost fluid also.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:07 AM   #10
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Kent Sundlings MR TRUCK review

"Why You Need ABS on Trailers"

is as good as I've found this morning.

60-0 with a 7k trailer
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:13 AM   #11
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My 2013 2500 Cummins stops fine solo, but the braking with the trailer is not comfortable for me. I had no problem towing my 25, but the 30 (with the same brakes, go figure) just doesn't seem to have adequate stopping power. I did discover that I'm only getting about 75% of the maximum braking current, so I'm changing my umbilical as a last resort before going to disc brakes. My 25 combo stopped as well as the truck alone.

Al
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:30 AM   #12
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I had one for 6 years and towing a 30' Airstream weighing in at 8k. The truck itself was 8200#. It stopped like 8200# moving down the road. Put the trailer on and it stopped like 16K. Brakes were fine.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
My 2013 2500 Cummins stops fine solo, but the braking with the trailer is not comfortable for me. I had no problem towing my 25, but the 30 (with the same brakes, go figure) just doesn't seem to have adequate stopping power. I did discover that I'm only getting about 75% of the maximum braking current, so I'm changing my umbilical as a last resort before going to disc brakes. My 25 combo stopped as well as the truck alone.

Al
If 250 feet solo is achievable at 60-mph, it's in the ballpark (300' with reaction time on dry pavement). I wouldn't accept a lot more than that.

It's 400+ at 70-mph. I'm still waiting to read those who cruise at this speed what their minimum following distance is (never encroach), and what their rig tested.

Few things worse, IMO, than lack of confidence in brakes.

.
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