Ram 1500 Ecodiesel for 27FB--Advice and Calculation Help

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

It doesn't sound like you have any experience driving a truck with an exhaust brake. A good exhaust brake will make gasoline engine/transmission braking look down right silly in comparison. This exhaust brake is one of the reasons why some folks have such a tough time going back to a gas engine.

Amen...

[switz]

We left the tube frame support in the 2012 Ram 2500HD which was welded to the frame. The support chains are attached near the weld junction at the end of the tube on both sides. You can see the weld by the right chain in the picture.

The factory receiver was welded to the frame cross tube in the middle. The factory receiver was rated 1,200 pounds tongue weight. Our existing 25FB Airstream at that time had a 1,175 pound tongue weight camping ready. That was not enough capacity to implement weight distribution forces. The 25FB had 1,150 pounds tongue weight when I hooked up to the trailer at the dealership. They saw no issue with that tongue weight.

Thus we removed the factory receiver. It's opening was just about two inches above the Curt 15049 opening when the Curt was attached. The Curt is rated 2,550 pounds for tongue weight and a 17,000 pound towing weight trailer.

Our current 2014 Classic had a tongue weight of 1,375 pounds after the solar conversion, but the recent battery swap reduced it to 1,200 pounds.

Thus the factory receiver was completely inadequate for our purposes.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

I do not know why any one would cut their dodge hitch off, as mine is bolted on with bolts and no welds.

Factory is welded. Bolt on is dealer addition. My rig deformed the bolts. REESE #45299 a far better piece than factory.

[Bajaexplorer]

Originally Posted by Top

Although I wouldn't entirely discount payload, I'm not afraid to exceed it a little when towing about 3,000 miles a year. If I were towing weekly as a fulltimer, I would probably get a diesel powered 3/4T pickup.

I read this article today. Old article, but new to me.
Ram Tough Dilemma: Hemi vs. EcoDiesel

I especially liked this-

"Although the Hemi is a perfectly acceptable tow companion, from the seat-of-the-pants view, it feels like there’s less degradation of performance when towing or hauling with the EcoDiesel than with the Hemi. The EcoDiesel feels happy hauling a load, whereas the Hemi is happier hauling ass."

I've never towed with a HEMI, so I can't say anything about it. But I can say that my EcoDiesel will tow my Airstream 75MPH against a 15MPH headwind without any problem. It burns the diesel at a fast rate, but it isn't lacking power.

Agreed with Top.

My ecodiesel tow our 28 Iternational with no problem.Heavy winds over 15mph or more are very common on I 10, 40etc have never been a problem for this engine.

Fuel consumption is great considering our paýload weight and trailer, but we never lack of power.Although we like a lot our ecodiesel, considering Diesel power vs gas engines it is worth to look within the half ton trucks the new Nissan Titan with the new Cummins engine.
In terms to get our ecodiesel towing capacity up to the mark, we added Michelin tires Lt Ms 10plies that can handle more payload weight and also added after market air bags to the suspension. Basically it is a matter to travel as light is possible, the lighter the better and keep your weight to your truck limitations and safe handling. We have been on the road for over 7months and so far no problem, however it took me about 3months to get where we are today trying all sorts of hitch adjustments to get my weight balanced accordingly to the " book standards" and opinions of a lot of people here at the forum to whom I am very grateful, but after meeting personally some experienced people that have been towing not only travel trailers or fifth wheels, but big 40ton trucks, I did the adjustments they suggested.Tires and air bag suspension. After that my trips to the Cat Scales ended. Never drive any faster than 55, however. Happy camping

[Boxite]

One of the advantages of being the payer is also being the decider of where/how that money is paid....
... to each his own...
But I'd be a lot happier with the factory hitch than the Curt, under the described circumstances.
The factory hitch takes into consideration the frame gauge and structure when it was rated. The Curt may not have any responsibility for that requirement. (It reminds me of the aircraft hardware I found holding the lawn chair together... It pulled right out of the tubing when my overweight friend sat in it.)

As for identifying factory or dealer-add-on.... my Warren, MI built RAM left the factory with a welded-tube, bolt-on hitch installed on the assembly-line and documented on the build-sheet as part of the towing pkg.

[tjdonahoe]

My hitch is bolted to the frame at the factory , not welded to the frame ,the assembly is welded,

[Lance M]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Factory is welded. Bolt on is dealer addition. My rig deformed the bolts. REESE #45299 a far better piece than factory.

Maybe on an old DODGE like you have, but not on a new RAM.

[tjdonahoe]

Well mine is an 07, my neighbors is an 08 with the same bolted on hitch, and it will probably hold up more than the back of the frame where it is bolted on,it has towed our 2013 31' classic and our 2004 30' classic about 40,O00 miles with no problems....

[upnorththree]

Originally Posted by theflash44

So far my favorite TV to buy is a 2015 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel (Laramie or Laramie Longhorn ideally). Is this enough truck to safely tow my 27FB? At the moment I'll be doing semi-regular camping trips in northern CA and eventual (read: hopeful) full-timing. With some of the towing limits on the Ram, and me buying a ProPride since they are highly recommended, I think I would be okay on towing but having to keep payload under careful consideration. My GVWR on my AS is 7600, the max payload on the Ram is in the picture at 1344. Could someone help me grind some numbers and give any neighborly advice?

The row I highlighted is a truck I found available in my area so will take some preference.

Key point, I do not want a 3/4 ton..

Thanks for all the help!

Oh do I feel your pain. I will fight to the end to stay with a 1/2 ton.

I own a 2015, Laramie, 4x4, EcoDiesel with, I swear, every bell and whistle Chrysler could hang on this thing.

Four corner auto-suspension, tow package, TT electronic braking, RAM boxes, electronic aerodynamic leveling, collapsible electronic side mirrors, all leather vented AC seats . . . Go ahead, name it, it's on there.

I am pushing the ragged edge with my 25 foot flying cloud and it's just me, my wife, and two Retrievers. I'll bet there are times I'm not legal.

Now a 2x2 will give you about 200 pounds leeway and the longer of the two short beds might give you boost but, IMHO I wouldn't give a 27 footer a second glance.

I'm not a mechanic by any means but, if you call RAM and see if there are mechanics out there with magic wands . . . I would love to hear from them. Seriously. I would beef up my 1500 a touch more if I could.

Sorry to rain on your parade but, better alive than the alternative.
-Rick

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by upnorththree

Oh do I feel your pain. I will fight to the end to stay with a 1/2 ton.

I own a 2015, Laramie, 4x4, EcoDiesel with, I swear, every bell and whistle Chrysler could hang on this thing.

Four corner auto-suspension, tow package, TT electronic braking, RAM boxes, electronic aerodynamic leveling, collapsible electronic side mirrors, all leather vented AC seats . . . Go ahead, name it, it's on there.

I am pushing the ragged edge with my 25 foot flying cloud and it's just me, my wife, and two Retrievers. I'll bet there are times I'm not legal.

Now a 2x2 will give you about 200 pounds leeway and the longer of the two short beds might give you boost but, IMHO I wouldn't give a 27 footer a second glance.

I'm not a mechanic by any means but, if you call RAM and see if there are mechanics out there with magic wands . . . I would love to hear from them. Seriously. I would beef up my 1500 a touch more if I could.

Sorry to rain on your parade but, better alive than the alternative.
-Rick

Thanks for your honesty! Think your conclusion offers good advise for the larger 27+ AS....yes, a 1/2T may get you by and the ECO-D is pretty capable for towing power/torque, albeit a little light in payload...but if you had a choice, I would look hard again at the 3/4T given the comments about full time...my 2 cents

[switz]

The driver's door sticker states the two axle ratings. Adding airbags, stiffer springs or higher load range tires does not change the axle rating. So the extra springs or airbags are adding weight to the truck and reducing the net payload for the trailer and stuff in the truck.

[tjdonahoe]

Mi do like our new 2500 ram...has coilsprings onthe rear, it has a good ride,and does a good job with our 13 31’ Classic...now has 18,000 miles..20 empty, 14 with the as....

[DC Bruce]

Having pulled our FC 27 all over the West in 2015-2016 (30k miles) I do not understand folks’ obsession with diesel power plants. I do understand folks’ desire to avoid a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. We test drove both sizes of truck and shopped extensively to find a 1/2 ton with adequate cargo capacity. Today, there are lots of 1/2 ton gasoline powered choices that do not require serious overloading of your TV. Understand, that the working tongue weight of an FC 27 is over 1000 lbs. while a w/d hitch will shift some of that back to the trailer and some to the front axle of the TV, the net reduction on the TV will be at best, around 300 lbs.
The 3.5 liter Ford Ecoboost motor produces gobs of torque at under 2000 rpm, just like a diesel. And you can get an F150 crew cab with all of the goodies that will have a rated cargo capacity around 2000 lbs. Likewise, my Sierra 1500 with the max towing package is rated at 1960 lbs. and it’s a 4x4. With the 6.2 liter engine, our fuel economy was between 11 and 13 mpg. Cruising engine rpm is 2000 or less, and I’ve never exceeded 3000 rpm climbing a hill.
I now have over 67000 miles on the truck and it’s never required a repair. My towing speed is ~60 mph or the posted limit, whichever is less. I’m running GYM tires on my trailer (OEM stock) and they’re rated for 65 mph max.
I think you would find the RAM seriously underpowered. If memory serves, an empty Ecodiesel takes about 9 seconds to hit 60 mph; my truck takes less than 6. Also, in most parts of the country diesel fuel is priced substantially above the price of regular or even mid-grade gasoline. So, the value of whatever fuel economy gains the diesel has over the gas engine is reduced.
It’s true that, in the past, gas engines had to be revved up to 3000 rpm or more to develop their power, making for a noisy, fatiguing ride. But with direct gasoline fuel injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging, that’s no longer true. And I won’t even get started on the problematic maintenance issues with the diesel exhaust emissions control systems.
So, I strongly urge you to consider a Ford or GM product with the big displacement gas engine (GM @420 hp. 460 lb.-ft.) or the Ford 3.5 liter Ecoboost (375 hp. 470 lb.-ft.). Lots of Airstreamers are happy Ecoboost users; the big GM engine is a little hard to find, being limited to one trim level with the max tow package (Sierra SLT, Silverado LTZ). You can get the big engine in the Denali and High Country trims, but not the max tow package, so your payload takes a 400 lb. reduction. The 8-speed transmission that comes with this engine works very well and the cruise control will downshift aggressively to maximize engine braking on downgrades; or you can shift manually with a rocker switch on the shift lever.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by DC Bruce

Having pulled our FC 27 all over the West in 2015-2016 (30k miles) I do not understand folks’ obsession with diesel power plants. I do understand folks’ desire to avoid a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. We test drove both sizes of truck and shopped extensively to find a 1/2 ton with adequate cargo capacity. Today, there are lots of 1/2 ton gasoline powered choices that do not require serious overloading of your TV. Understand, that the working tongue weight of an FC 27 is over 1000 lbs. while a w/d hitch will shift some of that back to the trailer and some to the front axle of the TV, the net reduction on the TV will be at best, around 300 lbs.
The 3.5 liter Ford Ecoboost motor produces gobs of torque at under 2000 rpm, just like a diesel. And you can get an F150 crew cab with all of the goodies that will have a rated cargo capacity around 2000 lbs. Likewise, my Sierra 1500 with the max towing package is rated at 1960 lbs. and it’s a 4x4. With the 6.2 liter engine, our fuel economy was between 11 and 13 mpg. Cruising engine rpm is 2000 or less, and I’ve never exceeded 3000 rpm climbing a hill.
I now have over 67000 miles on the truck and it’s never required a repair. My towing speed is ~60 mph or the posted limit, whichever is less. I’m running GYM tires on my trailer (OEM stock) and they’re rated for 65 mph max.
I think you would find the RAM seriously underpowered. If memory serves, an empty Ecodiesel takes about 9 seconds to hit 60 mph; my truck takes less than 6. Also, in most parts of the country diesel fuel is priced substantially above the price of regular or even mid-grade gasoline. So, the value of whatever fuel economy gains the diesel has over the gas engine is reduced.
It’s true that, in the past, gas engines had to be revved up to 3000 rpm or more to develop their power, making for a noisy, fatiguing ride. But with direct gasoline fuel injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging, that’s no longer true. And I won’t even get started on the problematic maintenance issues with the diesel exhaust emissions control systems.
So, I strongly urge you to consider a Ford or GM product with the big displacement gas engine (GM @420 hp. 460 lb.-ft.) or the Ford 3.5 liter Ecoboost (375 hp. 470 lb.-ft.). Lots of Airstreamers are happy Ecoboost users; the big GM engine is a little hard to find, being limited to one trim level with the max tow package (Sierra SLT, Silverado LTZ). You can get the big engine in the Denali and High Country trims, but not the max tow package, so your payload takes a 400 lb. reduction. The 8-speed transmission that comes with this engine works very well and the cruise control will downshift aggressively to maximize engine braking on downgrades; or you can shift manually with a rocker switch on the shift lever.

....nice...we have passes in Montana....not much low elevation flatland...big gas engines ? 6.2 liter..is only 378 cubic in.... I will stick to the ram with cummins..

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

....nice...we have passes in Montana....not much low elevation flatland...big gas engines ? 6.2 liter..is only 378 cubic in.... I will stick to the ram with cummins..

Agree with your comments...the 27'-33' can surely be "towed" by these 1/2T gassers, but the Rockies are a whole lot easier, and I would add "safer" towing that size trailer with larger wheel base PU and a diesel with engine braking. I loved my F150 EB with my 25's, but no comparison towing with this larger 28' and my F250 diesel. No disrespect intended to those owners...I did love the daily driving of the 1/2T for sure when not hitched up to the AS.

[Rocinante]

Ironically, specs show that tongue weight on the 25 is remarkably similar to the tongue weight of a 27FB.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Ironically, specs show that tongue weight on the 25 is remarkably similar to the tongue weight of a 27FB.

The tongue weight sitting still is one thing, but start hitting some rough payment and you can feel the load on your truck. I’d rather have the extra mass of a one ton. And a steady 55mph makes for a really long day towing.

You can debate engine choice all day long but for a heavy trailer there’s no substitute for a heavier truck.

[switz]

From the Airstream 2018 catalog and the Flying Cloud section

25RB = 835 pounds
25FB = 837 pounds
26RB = 903 pounds
27FB = 791 pounds
28RB = 899 pounds
30RB = 899 pounds
30FBB = 903 pounds

The common reality is that these published numbers are always low after adding water and propane and or having GSM batteries vs lead acid.

The variation in tongue weight equals a 30 pound propane tank for the grill.....

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by DC Bruce

Having pulled our FC 27 all over the West in 2015-2016 (30k miles) I do not understand folks’ obsession with diesel power plants. I do understand folks’ desire to avoid a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. We test drove both sizes of truck and shopped extensively to find a 1/2 ton with adequate cargo capacity. Today, there are lots of 1/2 ton gasoline powered choices that do not require serious overloading of your TV. Understand, that the working tongue weight of an FC 27 is over 1000 lbs. while a w/d hitch will shift some of that back to the trailer and some to the front axle of the TV, the net reduction on the TV will be at best, around 300 lbs.
The 3.5 liter Ford Ecoboost motor produces gobs of torque at under 2000 rpm, just like a diesel. And you can get an F150 crew cab with all of the goodies that will have a rated cargo capacity around 2000 lbs. Likewise, my Sierra 1500 with the max towing package is rated at 1960 lbs. and it’s a 4x4. With the 6.2 liter engine, our fuel economy was between 11 and 13 mpg. Cruising engine rpm is 2000 or less, and I’ve never exceeded 3000 rpm climbing a hill.
I now have over 67000 miles on the truck and it’s never required a repair. My towing speed is ~60 mph or the posted limit, whichever is less. I’m running GYM tires on my trailer (OEM stock) and they’re rated for 65 mph max.
I think you would find the RAM seriously underpowered. If memory serves, an empty Ecodiesel takes about 9 seconds to hit 60 mph; my truck takes less than 6. Also, in most parts of the country diesel fuel is priced substantially above the price of regular or even mid-grade gasoline. So, the value of whatever fuel economy gains the diesel has over the gas engine is reduced.
It’s true that, in the past, gas engines had to be revved up to 3000 rpm or more to develop their power, making for a noisy, fatiguing ride. But with direct gasoline fuel injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging, that’s no longer true. And I won’t even get started on the problematic maintenance issues with the diesel exhaust emissions control systems.
So, I strongly urge you to consider a Ford or GM product with the big displacement gas engine (GM @420 hp. 460 lb.-ft.) or the Ford 3.5 liter Ecoboost (375 hp. 470 lb.-ft.). Lots of Airstreamers are happy Ecoboost users; the big GM engine is a little hard to find, being limited to one trim level with the max tow package (Sierra SLT, Silverado LTZ). You can get the big engine in the Denali and High Country trims, but not the max tow package, so your payload takes a 400 lb. reduction. The 8-speed transmission that comes with this engine works very well and the cruise control will downshift aggressively to maximize engine braking on downgrades; or you can shift manually with a rocker switch on the shift lever.

Does the 6.2 liter GM engine require premium fuel? Also, curious about your real world MPG when not towing?

Just curious!

Thanks!

[upnorththree]

Originally Posted by switz

From the Airstream 2018 catalog and the Flying Cloud section

25RB = 835 pounds
25FB = 837 pounds
26RB = 903 pounds
27FB = 791 pounds
28RB = 899 pounds
30RB = 899 pounds
30FBB = 903 pounds

The common reality is that these published numbers are always low after adding water and propane and or having GSM batteries vs lead acid.

The variation in tongue weight equals a 30 pound propane tank for the grill.....

Okay, I'm just going to throw this out there for the fun of it.

Talking to one of Jackson Center's "people in the know service" the AS tongue weight includes acid batteries, full LP tanks and nothing else. Water in any tanks or cargo of any kind are not considered in the weight analysis.

-popeye