Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2012, 11:36 PM   #1
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
ProPride stinger weld failure

On another forum there is a report of a weld failure on a ProPride stinger. It appears that the weld between the rearward facing portion of the stinger, and the vertical section with the series of holes drilled to provide height adjustment, failed. The weld to the gusset reinforcing the connection also failed. Another forum has a photo of the failure:

Hensley Arrow vs. Propride 3p

It appears to me that the welds simply didn't penetrate deeply enough to provide sufficient strength. I understand from the forum posts that ProPride replaced the stinger under warranty in 2010, so they have been aware of the problem for some time.

Given the safety critical nature of the failure and the apparent process problem I am surprised that there has not been a recall. Perhaps Sean will join the discussion and share ProPride's thinking.

I'm going to take a look at mine next time I'm out at my storage location and possibly have it x-rayed if the welds look suspicious.
__________________

__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:16 AM   #2
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
ONE hitch bar out of over 4000 does not warrant a recall.

You might also consider how many inches of weld there are on 4334 hitches. If there were a process problem I believe it would be showing up more than once in all the welds in 4334 hitches.

That's my thinking.

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to address it again after 2 years and a couple thousand more hitches on the road without this issue ever occurring.
__________________

__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 05:39 AM   #3
Be Calm, Have a Cupcake
 
Secguru's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 223
Images: 1
Respectfully, Sean you just might want to check with a really good Corporate Attorney before you stand firm on that position.

At the least, you should be x-raying a representative sample of stingers so that you have some factual basis for saying that you don't have a problem.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
__________________
Secguru

Would you rather have a mansion full of money or a trailer full of love?
Secguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:15 AM   #4
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
We do pull parts and have them examined at regular intervals.

There is no absence of evidence. There are 4334 hitch bars on the road. 1 of them had a problem. I think thats a pretty good sample of evidence.
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:24 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,139
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
How do we know that the part with the weld failure wasn't used in some inappropriate manner that caused the damage? Like pulling some big ole honkin truck or trailer out of some ditch. Since it would be almost impossible to prove that the hitch wasn't abused I don't know how you could go back on the manufacturer.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 09:55 AM   #6
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff View Post
ONE hitch bar out of over 4000 does not warrant a recall.
I'm surprised that you would see a structural failure that could result in fatalities as something that would be acceptable at a 1 in 4000 level of occurrence in the field. Did you determine the root cause? Was the stinger welded correctly? If so, is there a design problem? If not, is there a process problem? Were other hitches manufactured around the same time also affected?

The whole point of the 4-bar hitch system is safety. At what point are we better off with products from more established, high volume hitch manufacturers where there is no history of structural failures?
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 09:58 AM   #7
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
How do we know that the part with the weld failure wasn't used in some inappropriate manner that caused the damage? Like pulling some big ole honkin truck or trailer out of some ditch. Since it would be almost impossible to prove that the hitch wasn't abused I don't know how you could go back on the manufacturer.
From the photograph it appears to me that the weld was defective. The sheared area of the weld appears to be about 1/8" thick or less, judging from the photograph. The narrative that accompanies the photograph indicates that the hitch failed while towing a travel trailer, near the end of a a 7,000 mile trip.
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:27 AM   #8
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
I'm surprised that you would see a structural failure that could result in fatalities as something that would be acceptable at a 1 in 4000 level of occurrence in the field. Did you determine the root cause? Was the stinger welded correctly? If so, is there a design problem? If not, is there a process problem?

The whole point of the 4-bar hitch system is safety. At what point are we better off with products from more established, high volume hitch manufacturers where there is no history of structural failures?

There can be a people problem. People can, and do, make mistakes. A process is only as good as the people operating the process.

The design is not an issue. The design is proven.

I don't believe you can find a high volume hitch manufacturer that has no history of structural failure. I also don't believe you can find a manufacturer who will come here to discuss the issue.

I can't tell you at what point YOU are better off with a high volume hitch manufacturer. That is an individual risk tolerance question that you have to answer for yourself.

While analyzing individual risk tolerance I think all of the factors should be considered.

I can give many examples of people being killed when their trailer swayed out of control with a conventional hitch (high volume hitch manufacturer). I can give you examples of weight distribution bars being unloaded and the pry bar breaking a hand or foot of the user.

I CAN'T give you even one injury or sway accident example of anyone using either a Hensley Arrow or a ProPride 3P hitch.

As TG noted eluded to above, I can't tell you what some customers are doing with their hitch. I know this customer so I believe this hitch bar was cold welded and took full responsibility for it. I replaced it and it didn't cost him a dime. We do have the best warranty, bar none, in the industry. I wouldn't be in business for very long if I was replacing a bunch of hitches.

All I can do is look at the entire sample, the processes and people involved, and make a decision based on my experience and the engineering behind what I know to be true.
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:28 AM   #9
Pnr
New Member
 
Currently Looking...
Okc , Oklahoma
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
I have read about mudslinging between PP and Hensley, in other threads.

Did I miss something ? All I ever see is the PP guy jumping on forums and attacking Hensley.

Paul
__________________
Pnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:36 AM   #10
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
How do we know that the part with the weld failure wasn't used in some inappropriate manner that caused the damage? Like pulling some big ole honkin truck or trailer out of some ditch. Since it would be almost impossible to prove that the hitch wasn't abused I don't know how you could go back on the manufacturer.

Unfortunately, I will never know what has taken place with a hitch. Most customers believe that when they have a warranty issue they need to make up some sort of story in order to get the part covered by warranty. That isn't the case with me because I cover everything regardless of fault. Very few customers call and take responsibility for what has occurred because they are afraid the warranty claim will be denied.

The funny part about these stories are that I have been doing this long enough to know exactly what happened in most situations.

While at Hensley Mfg I had a guy tell me his hitch just "exploded" while he was towing it into the campground. Exploded? I still chuckle at that one.
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #11
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
bredlo's Avatar
 
1954 22' Safari
Deerfield , Illinois
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,419
Images: 23
Send a message via AIM to bredlo
Well, this isn't helpful.

I'd love to know (from Sean) if, when that broken stinger came back in 2010 - you examined it and were able to draw any conclusions about why and how it failed. I wouldn't know how to deconstruct that photo and piece together where the tear started, or how it came apart.

An owner's account of an accident (sitting 10-15 feet away and looking the other direction) are only partly helpful - and that's if they're being honest, as you correctly point out.

I'd also enjoy hearing if, and how, these parts are tested in order to determine their limits. Do they occasionally go through controlled stress tests to see what they can handle? Or does the lack of broken hitches serve as the best empirical evidence that they're designed correctly?

Not asking to be contrarian - I've been learning how to weld recently, and am genuinely interested in how you arrived at your design / testing decisions.
__________________
Brad
bredlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:32 AM   #12
4 Rivet Member
 
timmaah's Avatar
 
1999 25' Safari
On , the road
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 296
Must be mid-winter with cabin fever setting in. Itching to start internet fights.

Sean,

If you addressed it years ago, link to where you addressed it, let us know you made right with the customer and be done with it. You are not going to do yourself or your business any favors by dragging this thread out and fighting with an anonymous new member.
__________________
timmaah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 12:16 PM   #13
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
ProPride Stinger Stress Model

Here is a link to a stress model for you.

2000lbs of tongue weight.

1000lbs of spring bar.

The model is shelled which is the equivalent of making it out of .5" plate to simulate the weld cross section. The ACTUAL 2" square hitch bar would not register even near this model.

ProPride Hitch Bar Model




-
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 12:47 PM   #14
Site Team
 
Janet H's Avatar

 
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
Eastern , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,443
Images: 90
Several posts have been removed and this thread closed for a cooling off period. If you have a personal grievance with a vendor please resolve it in another venue and set the bucket of mud aside when you log into AIR.

__________________

__________________
1964 Overlander | '08 Touareg V6
Current Project: 1964 Globetrotter

.
Let's have a polishing party: I'll supply the trailer and buffing supplies. BYOB (bring your own buffer)

AirForums Custom Search
Janet H is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goodyear Marathon ST225/75R15 Failure Steve & Mary Tires 148 10-16-2014 08:40 AM
2002 LY 26' - Airstream MH Brake Failure Intruder Land Yacht/Legacy Motorhomes 15 08-11-2012 07:59 AM
Total Brake Failure ( 2008 31' Classic) Hap3 Brakes & Brake Controllers 30 11-09-2011 06:24 PM
Safari 2005 Window Crank Failure neil.ervin Windows & Screens 3 10-24-2011 07:37 AM
Very long tow in BC - turbo hose failure! wayneskid Sprinter and B-van Forum 6 10-05-2011 05:29 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.