Porsche Cayenne Diesel

[pman]

I have a 2015 Porsche Cayenne Diesel with towing package and would like to have opinions as to which Airstream Trailer would be acceptable to tow with this car. I am thinking of getting the 22 sport bambi. Would I need to modify my car? Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you

[dkottum]

There's experienced people here who can give good advice, and others who cruise these threads to disrupt any towing discussion. Here's the most recent of many, many just to give you a nasty taste of what to expect. Not the best place to ask for towing advice.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...bo-129508.html

[Ohiobrits]

pman, as dkottum has mention tread carefully with questions on tow vehicle suitability and in particular hitch selection.....There is much good advice here but also folks who will likely flame you based on your suggested tow vehicle.

My advice, read the many many threads here and on forums such as ClubTouareg (Touareg is the sister platform of the Cayenne) and make up your own mind. Also contact Can-Am, they have set up numerous Touareg's, X5's, Q5's and Cayenne's including a diesel specifically for Porsche Canada that was towing a 27FB and I believe a non Diesel towing a 30 footer (photos of the 30ft Airstream combination below). Can-Am has the most relevant advice for you with this vehicle and likely the most experience. I can forward some of the correspondence I have received from them if you PM me.

Why my interest in your post? I own a 2014 Cayenne Diesel that I am researching for use as an Airstream tow vehicle. I'm looking to tow a 25FB or 27FB. Here are a few vehicle specific observations to help you on your way:-

Get your GVWR from the nameplate inside the drivers door mine is 6283lbs
Get the max payload from the tire label in the same location mine is 1256lbs.
I weighed my vehicle on a CAT scale with full tank but no driver or other load and it weighed 5020lbs which corresponds closely with the max payload on the tire label (5020 + 1256 = 6276 lbs).
Next, check the tongue weight of the trailer you are looking at, the Airstream website says 393lbs.
This weight is added to the vehicle weight (via the hitch) so reduces the max payload by this amount, the remainder can be used for passengers, luggage etc. If a weight distribution hitch is to be used, this will move some of the hitch weight back to the trailer and "distribute" some of the hitch weigh from the rear axle of the Cayenne to the front axle of the Cayenne to better balance the weight. A weight distribution hitch may or may not be required due to the relatively low tongue weight, I'd ask Can-Am for some advice.
You should also make sure you will not exceed the axle weight ratings stated on the Cayenne nameplate. My CAT scale as measured front and rear axle weight were: -

Front - 2620lbs (max of 3042 per nameplate)
Rear 2400lbs (max of 3384 with no speed restriction and 3684 limited to 60 mph whilst towing - per Owners manual).

Other data for my 2014 Cayenne (confirm in your Owners manual for the 2015): -

Max tongue weight of 616 lbs
Max trailer weight of 7700 lbs
GCWR 13999 lbs (weight of fully loaded Cayenne and trailer)

I doubt you would be even remotely close to any of these ratings with the combination you are considering. The Diesel in particular makes an excellent tow vehicle combination based on the many write ups I have seen. Good luck.

I'll wait to be flamed myself now.....

[Tintini]

Originally Posted by dkottum

There's experienced people here who can give good advice, and others who cruise these threads to disrupt any towing discussion. Here's the most recent of many, many just to give you a nasty taste of what to expect. Not the best place to ask for towing advice.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...bo-129508.html

I agree that there are those who disrupt any towing discussion, and this may not be the "best" place to ask for towing advice. But I've never looked else where and I've found good advice here. Expect lots of different opinions, but they boil down to a focus on pay load capacity of the tow vehicle, which includes tongue weight of the trailer, the weight of the trailer the tow vehicle is rated to pull and whether your tow vehicle hitch is rated for the tongue weight of the trailer. The real disagreements are over different types of weight distribution hitches, with some (like me) swearing by pivot point projection hitches like Propride, and others who think these a waste of money. Read enough, think enough and you'll come to your own conclusions which will likely be right for you. Jeff

[Lara Me]

OhioBrit makes a compelling objective case for the Cayenne diesel as a perfect TV for a 22ft Sport Bambi trailer, methinks. The numbers indicate plenty of margin when hitch weight, Gross Vehicle Weight, and payload and towing capacity are all considered. Plus the engine has plenty of torque for the 22's weight, and likely accelerates easily with a full load. I didn't realize the Sport Bambi was as light as it is. Makes the 23 FC look almost piggish by comparison.

I'd talk to the service guys on any need to consider transmission coolers given regular towing, but otherwise, this seems like the ideal match.

I had the chance to test a regular Cayenne out on a closed circuit race track and in a slalom course, alongside a few 911's, Boxters, and Panamera models. The Cayenne handles incredibly well, very little body roll for 2 ton SUV, and the brakes (which I think can be upgraded as optional) were super powerful, with large rotors and four piston calipers and never any real fade at sustained speeds over 80 mph. I doubt it would have any issue slowing down the smaller trailer and would behave quite nicely in twisty mountain roads.



Surprisingly, the big Panamera was also quite impressive too, the GTS was a bit faster than the 911S on this short closed track, due to superior horsepower and brakes, though I'd pick a 911s any day of the week. But getting off topic...



I'd say get the right hitch setup and go for it. Nice fun combo!

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Tintini

I agree that there are those who disrupt any towing discussion,

So true. It is a shame because this Porsche model makes for a great Airstream tow vehicle. Someone suggested Can AM. Research the many informative posts by forum member "Andrew T" for the good advice on towing and your Porsche/Airstream desires.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by Ohiobrits

pman, as dkottum has mention tread carefully with questions on tow vehicle suitability and in particular hitch selection.....There is much good advice here but also folks who will likely flame you based on your suggested tow vehicle.

Originally Posted by Tintini

I agree that there are those who disrupt any towing discussion, and this may not be the "best" place to ask for towing advice. But I've never looked else where and I've found good advice here. Expect lots of different opinions, but they boil down to a focus on pay load capacity of the tow vehicle, which includes tongue weight of the trailer, the weight of the trailer the tow vehicle is rated to pull and whether your tow vehicle hitch is rated for the tongue weight of the trailer. The real disagreements are over different types of weight distribution hitches, with some (like me) swearing by pivot point projection hitches like Propride, and others who think these a waste of money. Read enough, think enough and you'll come to your own conclusions which will likely be right for you. Jeff

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

So true. It is a shame because this Porsche model makes for a great Airstream tow vehicle. Someone suggested Can AM. Research the many informative posts by forum member "Andrew T" for the good advice on towing and your Porsche/Airstream desires.

<<Mod Hat On>>

This can be a passionate subject as those quoted above indicate. Active discussion of subjects such as these are core to the RV experience though and will always be allowed here. To anyone desirous of taking this thread off topic and into the realm of legal-eze, irresponsible this, or groupie that, be advised that the site team will monitor this thread to see that things are kept reasonably on topic, and above all civil. Let's be mindful of the Community Rules and let the dialog begin.

[dkottum]

Another member has begun a thread concerning his Porsche diesel that you may be following. (Again, others who cannot accept the topic being discussed.)

That thread is about looking at hitch weight and how it may be reduced to improve tow vehicle performance.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...er-129709.html

[KJRitchie]

Are these vehicles reliable? I'd be afraid of a break down far away from a Porsche repair facility.

Kelvin

[dkottum]

Kelvin, I see your point, we traveled and camped for 35 years with VW Camper buses. One broken generator/cooling fan belt for which I carried a spare, and a rear wheel bearing replaced at a Ford garage in Montana. That's it so it wouldn't bother me much.

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Are these vehicles reliable? I'd be afraid of a break down far away from a Porsche repair facility.

Kelvin

The Cayenne diesel is very similar to the VW Touareg / Audi Q7 from a mechanical perspective so, I would think a VW/Audi dealership or Porsche/VW/Audi independent could take care of most things.

[Erik Olson]

Originally Posted by Ohiobrits

The Cayenne diesel is very similar to the VW Touareg / Audi Q7 from a mechanical perspective so, I would think a VW/Audi dealership or Porsche/VW/Audi independent could take care of most things.

We've been towing with the VW Touareg on a 29' Ambassador (4855 lb. dry / 515 hitch) for a year now. Because we are in the upper third of the Touareg towing capacity (7700 lb / 660 hitch), we never tow wet and tend to do our food shopping once we arrive at our destination. It is easy to add another 1,000 lbs. if you don't. We load heavier items over the axles.

The VW provides measurably better power and ride than our previous vehicle, a Dodge 5.7 Hemi Quad Cab (6' bed, factory tow package version). The Cayenne and Audi versions use identical chassis, suspension and share driveline components in the 3.0L TDI versions. 225 HP nets you 406 pound-feet in torque in this option. I've never hit the Prodigy brake controller for sway in the VW set-up, it is very solid and tracks nicely. The brakes on the Cayenne / Touareg are more than ample.

I don't know if it matters, but you really should look at the Q7 from Audi, which provides a remarkable suite of options for less than Cayenne - including third-row seating.

[2012FB]

Need mirrors, brake controller, good hitch and go. I use the Aero II mirrors, Prodogy II Brake Controller and a ProPride 3P Hitch (which you will not need with your light hitch and trailer weight) on my ML350 Bluetec now towing a 2015 30' Bunk. Enjoy your Porsche Cayenne Diesel and the 22' FB Sport to the fullest. The Cayenne was my first choice and Andy's at CAN-AM RV as well, but cost won out in the end.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

The Cayenne was my first choice and Andy's at CAN-AM RV as well, but cost won out in the end.

2012FB... the Benz / Airstream looks great! Was it all that much cheaper than the Cayenne?

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

2012FB... the Benz / Airstream looks great! Was it all that much cheaper than the Cayenne?

I got 12% off list on the new 2014 ML350. Local Denver dealer wanted list -$2,000 for a 2013 Cayenne Diesel Demo Unit. It was a 20K difference. I could have gone out of state (CA) and maybe done better on the Cayenne but figured it would still be at least 12-15 more. Coming out of a 2012 HD Sierra Denali the MB (setup properly) is a real pleasure to tow with and my wife loves to drive it when not towing.

[Tom_T]

You should be more than fine with a 16-25' AS & probably more, as Andy T at CanAm reviewed the 2013 Cay-TDI with a 27 or 30' - see the hitch hints article at the link below, then call Andy at CanAm for more info...

Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints ..... see HH 41-7

If not already a member, join PCA & get on some of the Cayenne owners forums online - Pelican Parts has a good one, & a few others are out there; then look for topics from folks who actually do tow with theirs.

Also ditto for the cousin Taureg online forums, where their V10 & V6 TDIs have been in service for a longer time (essentially the same 3.0L V6-TDI as in your Cay, but without the "Porsche magic tweaks" added to the drivetrain & suspension).

Here's another topic on V6 vs V8 Cayennes, where some TDI owners have weighed in ....
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-s-124804.html

We're currently looking for a 2006-10 Cayenne S to tow our vintage Avion T20 - which is probably only 3000# wet & loaded - & are focused now on the Iceland Silver 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. because we like the color & it may be a Cayenne model/trim which eventually holds then improves in value over time, since I tend to hold onto my vehicles long term.

You can read some CayTDI input at my topic here...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...128005-10.html

We can't justify the extra $20-30k for the later diesel for a few mpg better on more expensive than premium fuel, on what is essentially an "extra car" that we also use tow to vintage trailer events & my 73 914-2.0 to PCA concours, etc. So we're fine with the V8 gas pre-owned option for the 3-5000 mi/yr we'll use it.

As with 2012FB's comment on his wife's use of their MBZ, my wife won't drive big trucks/suv's, & they won't fit in our driveway anyway - so they never were an option.

FYI - our set-up is a Hensley Cub WD/Anti-sway hitch (smaller than their Arrow for up to 6000# trailers), with a Tekonsha Prodigy RF trailer mounted wireless brake controller (it's plug-n-play for rented TVs until we get our CayS).

That one is the same as their hardwired P3 under-dash box mentioned above by 2012FB, which you could get (you'll need the wiring pigtail to hook it up), unless you too anticipate having more than one TV to share duties - then go with the wireless - or if you prefer leaving the Cay unmolested & just plugging the wireless hand controller into the 12v outlet in the Cay, with the controller box mounted on your trailer's A-frame (see pix at my link above of ours).

Enjoy your new Pepper - both hitched & "free"!!

And don't forget to entertain your PCA friends by bringing the shiny new AS hooked-up to the Cayenne to some events ... just to show off what they cannot do with their 911s, Boxsters & Caymans!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[gator.bigfoot]

Stay away from the older Cayenne's. They are notorious for the block failing along with a host of other issues. Unfortunately I can't say much better things about the MB diesel either. I'm now into thousands for the repair of an oil leak and de-carbonation of my engine. These euro diesels are a real pain with this issue. It isn't just MB that is affected since the design is common among all them. They employ flaps in the intakes that close at low RPM for pollution control and open up at high speeds. The flaps are controlled by a servo motor. The issue is that the flaps clog up with carbon due to the turbo and crankcase vapors causing the servo motor to fail. If the servo motor fails it puts the vehicle into limp mode. The clogging also robs the engine of power. This entire system needs to be removed and replaced if it worn out or cleaned every few years depending upon millage and driving. Mine at 148k is still running, but it needs to be rebuilt due to the massive oil leak from the oil cooler which means everything has to come out. This is a 13 hr job at best. If the intake manifolds need replacing they are $1300 each from the dealer. The Intake Port Shutoff motor (aka swirl motor) is a few hundred more and all of the seals for the entire job come in around $300. You may want to thing twice about owning a diesel!

[Tom_T]

Porsche didn't bring their diesel to the US until 2013, so it missed the early 2003-04 problem years.

The OP & others interested in Cayennes may want to also post questions about towing on Renn List - rennlist.com - under their Cayenne Forum.

[Erik Olson]

gator.bigfoot,

I'm in the 3.0 TDI 2012 Touareg. It sounds like you're having to invest in some significant engine maintenance.

When you say older, what does that mean? 148K motors and transmissions may start demanding some attention.

My Land Rovers all required new alternators every 85K (seriously, keep a spare in the vehicle, as you will be stranded!) and window regulators seemed a constantly-wearing part. Thermostats. Water pump.

I've heard that a failing power-steering pump on the 3.0 is something you really want to catch under warranty on these next-generation Bluetec / CleanDiesels.

Happy trails!

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Erik Olson

gator.bigfoot,

I'm in the 3.0 TDI 2012 Touareg. It sounds like you're having to invest in some significant engine maintenance.

When you say older, what does that mean? 148K motors and transmissions may start demanding some attention.

My Land Rovers all required new alternators every 85K (seriously, keep a spare in the vehicle, as you will be stranded!) and window regulators seemed a constantly-wearing part. Thermostats. Water pump.

I've heard that a failing power-steering pump on the 3.0 is something you really want to catch under warranty on these next-generation Bluetec / CleanDiesels.

Happy trails!

Mine is an '08. I don't look at it as old. But everything is relative.
I've already done the power steering pump last year.
If you have any vehicle under warranty take it somewhere other than the stealership to get checked out. They will insist that there are no issues until you have no warranty and then sock it to you. That happened to me with the steering pump and now this oil leak. I've been complaining it has been using more oil since 2011 and now of course it really shows as it leaks everywhere.