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Old 05-22-2016, 10:43 PM   #29
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These late model trucks are a LOT more capable than some who are not using them claim.

It's become normal here to tell you what you can't do, but very few who will explain how you can. There is one fellow here who weighs in on every towing thread with zero relevant towing experience.

The only towing expert on this forum is Can-Am Airstream in Ontario. Contact them and they will detail how to set up your truck and trailer, or set it up expertly for you. You will learn from them how and why your truck is an excellent tow vehicle for this size Airstream. Something that we who have them set up well already know.

http://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:23 AM   #30
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Its almost guaranteed that you would overload a Ram with 1040# of payload and a 28'.

IMO, when making a recommendation to someone, you would want to be specially conservative to make sure you do not put them in any (potential) trouble. Many folks in this forum seems to disagree with me on this.

There are well intending folks on this forum that after seeing an online video (or reading an online article) are absolutely convinced its ok to ignore manufacturer tow ratings.
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:51 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
These late model trucks are a LOT more capable than some who are not using them claim.

It's become normal here to tell you what you can't do, but very few who will explain how you can. There is one fellow here who weighs in on every towing thread with zero relevant towing experience.

The only towing expert on this forum is Can-Am Airstream in Ontario. Contact them and they will detail how to set up your truck and trailer, or set it up expertly for you. You will learn from them how and why your truck is an excellent tow vehicle for this size Airstream. Something that we who have them set up well already know.

http://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/

I beg to differ. Anyone that suggests a passenger car is a better tow vehicle than a truck designed to tow, has lost credibility in my opinion.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:03 AM   #32
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A 28 footer might be pushing it for that vehicle. As others stated, it's on the low side, especially with that gearing. I towed our 27fter with a 1500 Ram 4x4 Laramie with 3.92 gears for a year. But, I had to ride around with a mostly empty bed to stay all within the ratings of the vehicle. That gets old fast. (Tongue weight on mine was 960lbs.)

Some odd observations about Ram. The axle and tire ratings are much higher than the GVWR. The 1500 had a FAWR & RAWR of 3900lbs. That's 7800lbs while the door sticker stated the vehicle had a GVWR of 6800lbs.

This is the difference with the Ram and the Ford. Ram offers one axle combo across the board, and it's heavy duty.

What I can tell you is, that you won't find a 1000lb difference between GVWR and axle ratings on the F150. It will be significantly less. And the combinations are a little mind boggling: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...tes_010815.pdf

Based on those axle weight ratings, Ford seems to be all over the place. And the GVWR's are too. But I did some math on a few of them, and the trend is the same, one vehicle with A SuperCrew 4x2 only has 375lbs of spare capacity on it's axle.

So, I disagree with Rostam. You are more likely to overload your Ford than you are your Ram. I've posted this multiple times across this forum, in more detail in other places. Ford has the highest numbers because they are already maxed out.

Another thought.

Ram has a habit of de-rating things. I don't know why. The general consensus on a few other forums is "lawyers". My Power Wagon for example has a lower GVWR than an identical 2500 4x4 without the PW package. It's the same truck. It's believed, it was derated for liability because of the 2 inch factory lift. The Warn winch in all materials is labeled as a 12,000lb winch, but if you remove the cover, you'll find a Warn M15000 which is a 15,000 lb winch. It's labeled right on the thing. So why does Ram in all material state it's a 12,000lb winch? \_(ツ)_/ I don't work for FCA so I can only speculate.

All of that said, there is a difference between towing with a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 ton. I've done both now. I'd recommend the 3/4 ton as a better towing experience for anything over 25ft.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:33 AM   #33
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Changing the gears after the unit is built or adding springs or whatever, does not change the door label data unless a modification shop issues an amended certification label for the loads in the truck.

That could be important to you if taking the rig to Canada where the door label IS the controlling document as posted elsewhere on this forum.

When we converted the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins to the Kelderman level ride air suspension system, al the steel springs were replaced with air bags. On the rear they put 10,000 pound rated air bags. However, the rear axle is still rated 6,010 pounds and the factory installed Michelin LT265/70R17E tires are rated for that load at 70 psi. (Running the tires at 80 psi gives a load rating of 3,195 pounds versus the 3,005 pounds at 70 psi)

Kelderman did NOT issue an amended door label as they did not change the axle.

Our factory receiver was rated 1,200 pounds, but due to mentioned weld failures of the support member, we removed that receiver and installed a Curt 15049 rated for 2,550 pounds of tongue weight and a 17,000 pound trailer, which more than covers the Airstream product line. However, the truck is limited to a combined towing weight of 20,000 pounds, so we see 19,200 pounds cruising down the road loaded for camping.

The factory door sticker numbers will be different depending on the gear ratios in the differentials. But the "as built" rules the day for most folks.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:50 AM   #34
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Serenity

well you got a lot of good information riffin-rich. What Bold adventure says, that is experience talking to you.

Also what Tomhenritz is telling you about gearing and how he changed his to 3.73 instead of trading vehicles, that's good info too. Also I saw someone recommended LT tires for your truck because passenger tires ( P rated) are softer in the sidewall (Generally speaking). There are exceptions, granted a 40 series P rated tire is pretty stiff. LT tires are stronger. That's good info you can use.
So you do have good information here , just have to dig a little

Yeah the Serenity model is really nice, kinda partial to it . The 28' is IMO kinda heavy, but I am comparing to a some other brand, as I haven't pulled any other model AS. But I must say my 28' is the best towing trailer I have ever pulled. Its like one with the truck.

It doesn't swing and sway or buck & fight the truck.
Tractor trailers passing do not affect it. Winds do not bother it. I have had winds catch my previous trailer like a sail on high bridges, and it is not a good feeling !
The AS is just rock solid, I can tell you that.
Once you decide on a tow vehicle, and get a good hitch, a 28' Serenity is a mighty fine trailer to tow
I hope this helped some
have a good one !
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
Changing the gears after the unit is built or adding springs or whatever, does not change the door label data unless a modification shop issues an amended certification label for the loads in the truck.

That could be important to you if taking the rig to Canada where the door label IS the controlling document as posted elsewhere on this forum.

When we converted the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins to the Kelderman level ride air suspension system, al the steel springs were replaced with air bags. On the rear they put 10,000 pound rated air bags. However, the rear axle is still rated 6,010 pounds and the factory installed Michelin LT265/70R17E tires are rated for that load at 70 psi. (Running the tires at 80 psi gives a load rating of 3,195 pounds versus the 3,005 pounds at 70 psi)

Kelderman did NOT issue an amended door label as they did not change the axle.

Our factory receiver was rated 1,200 pounds, but due to mentioned weld failures of the support member, we removed that receiver and installed a Curt 15049 rated for 2,550 pounds of tongue weight and a 17,000 pound trailer, which more than covers the Airstream product line. However, the truck is limited to a combined towing weight of 20,000 pounds, so we see 19,200 pounds cruising down the road loaded for camping.

The factory door sticker numbers will be different depending on the gear ratios in the differentials. But the "as built" rules the day for most folks.
This is why I make the statement that the axle ratings and tire ratings are what you need to pay attention to, and to hit the scales. According to the Canadian members on the Ramforum in the towing section, their version of DOT looks at axle and tire ratings, not payload. And will subject you to a scale if they think you are over.

If you are over, they will then make you unload.

In the US you generally don't have to worry much about DOT. But there was a member who just posted, about being stopped in Nebraska by DOT and written a ticket for straps on his boat not being proper.

I'm sure all of us are breaking a rule we've never heard of every day.

That's life.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:23 PM   #36
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For the last 6 months my wife and I have been fulltiming with our FC27 . . . And have covered over 25k miles, mostly in the west after a cross-country trip from Washington DC to Los Angeles. The two vehicle is a GMC Sierra 1500 crew cab with the "max trailer tow package" and the 420 hp 6.2 liter gas engine with the 8-speed tranny. Cargo capacity per the door sticker is 1940 lbs. There's about 500 lbs of "meat" aboard, a Honda generator (50 lbs), a 3-gallon gas can, a toolbox that weighs about 50 lbs, snow chains for the truck and trailer (California requirement), spare clothes, a tabletop grill and a portable satellite dish. While I haven't weighed the combination, I would say I'm maxed out. . . And that's using a ProPride weight distribution hitch. I say that, based on the appearance of the back tired when inflated to the recommended air pressure. The problem with the "front bed" Airstreams is that 3/4 or more of the storage space is forward of the axles. Because we didn't really want to go to a 3/4 we shopped for a year for a truck. Other than the GM truck (equipped the the max tow, which adds 400 lb payload), the only other crew cab truck we found that we would have been comfortable with was the pre-aluminum F150 with the max payload and max tow packages. They will have a door sticker payload of about 1700 lbs. Online, it appears you could configure a new F150 to carry that much or more. However, it appears the max payload package precludes you from having anything other than the standard 20 gallon fuel tank. The 26 gallons our GMC carries is the minimum I would have, based on our experience. I've been completely satisfied with our combination. Because of the limitations of the Marathon tires, we tow at 60 or the speed limit, whichever is lower.
I recall that some testers --maybe pickup trucks.com--commented that overloading the Ram (in a comparison with other 1/2 tons carrying the same weight but with higher rated cargo capacity) produced some pretty squirrelly handling. The problem with overloading isn't breaking something, it's weight transfer off the front tires producing overly sensitive steering or, in worst case, loss of control in low traction situations like rain.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:46 PM   #37
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The air ride Elimates the weight transfer issues by making the truck sit level, loaded or empty. The reason our rams get squirly is the junk tires our trucks come with I switched to E load range Bfg K02's and its a huge improvement.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:49 PM   #38
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Here's some real world experience.

Our last Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi 4X4 and FC 25 and ProPride hitch fully loaded for seven months travel. Wonderful tow vehicle, absolutely rock solid stability and handling. Traveled through every state west of the Mississippi many times and most of the east to the coast.

Loved it, so when looking for a new truck we bought a 2016 Ram 1500. Same Airstream and ProPride hitch, same great towing performance, 3500 miles towing cross-country so far.

These are terrific trucks for mid-size Airstreams, with 800-1000 lbs remaining axle capacity (loaded evenly with weight distribution as in the photos), I wouldn't hesitate a moment to tow the 300 lbs additional weight of a 28 with either truck. By the way the Ram 20" tires have plenty of load capacity and the low profile design at full pressure are not squiggly.
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:48 PM   #39
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The problem with overloading isn't breaking something, it's weight transfer off the front tires producing overly sensitive steering or, in worst case, loss of control in low traction situations like rain.
You should be using a Anti-sway/WD hitch anyways. In their tests, they reported that about all vehicles and were not using a hitch. So, nonrelevant.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:04 PM   #40
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Hey Doug, (Dkottum) Is your white Ram a 4x2 with the 3.92 axle ? It looks good.
I would really like to find a gently used a non-4wd Dodge dually.
( I mean 'Ram' dually) .
That lower center of gravity and no transfer case weight and no drag of 4wd system, and of course Cummins powered. I think that would be a towing beast . I had read 2wd trucks are very good for towing. If I find one at the right price

have a good one !
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:41 PM   #41
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Could you ...yes.
Should you ... that's up to you. We feel more comfortable and safer in our 3/4 than we did with the 1/2T. Do a search and you will come up with a myriad of reasons for the HD tow...especially noteworthy on hills and mountains.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:35 AM   #42
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Hello and welcome. I notice you're a fellow Virginian. I'll add my comments. First find a nearby AirForums Really or your local WBCCI unit - it's the WDCU - Washington DC Unit... younger and more progressive than many others. Find out if they're having a buddy rally or if you might get a chance to meet some veteran Airstream owners who'll help you make an informed decision about a tow vehicle.

Frankly if you're attracted to the 28 you'll probably not be crazy about going down to a 25 or smaller - so one of the things you might want to look at is buying an old well used 3/4 or 1 ton truck. You DO NOT NEED a 3/4 for anything BUT towing so if you find one with 250,000 miles that's diesel and has had regular maintenance - it's good to go CAMPING for a couple of years and can be bought for a fraction of a newer one. Lots of folks have "daily drivers" and older "tow vehicles" that pretty much sit until it's time to go camping for the weekend.

Depending on the type of camping you're interested in you just might be able to get along without another tow vehicle for quite a while. I do think the Ram 1500 is a fine tow vehicle for up to a 25 - and while it's iffy for a 28 footer if you confine your trips to low hills and interstates you can get by. Going really up in the mountains on 2 lanes - I wouldn't. And a lot depends on FAMILY. If you have relatives who are willing to lend you a truck - take it.

No truck rental place will rent a vehicle to be used towing a trailer. I'm also fond of buying A used Airstream the first time around. Big savings that way. Enough to buy a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. I presume you went to Safford RV - about average for an RV dealership - which is mediocre. You'll get better advice and price and service elsewhere. (Colonial).

Happy trails.
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