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Old 08-20-2015, 06:29 AM   #15
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Again, there is an important point here. Basically, all standard hitches use friction, they basically "muscle" the trailer into behaving.

Now, add poor weather, and that poor weather directly, very directly contacts the friction device you are counting on controlling the trailer. Bad idea in my simply little mind.

On the flip side, you are asking that friction device to "decide" when you do and do not need that "muscle" controlling the trailer. So, as stated above, as you try to get a trailer back in line. The friction device just keeps doing it's thing, trying to "muscle" the trailer into submission, in nearly all designs as far as I know, the friction device does not know the difference from the trailer straight, or the trailer cocked.

That is what always worried my about a friction device. When I want it to take a break the most, it is not likely going to happen, or it will be wet and will no longer by physically capable of doing the job.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:12 AM   #16
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The PP doesn't use friction to maintain alignment... So, should there be a misalignment, recovery is not hindered by friction.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:48 AM   #17
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On our way home from california we were in a good storm with 40 mph side wind with blowing snow on a icy road between Henerys Flat and Enis,Mt. Over Raynolds pass .Four wheel drive and 35 miles an hour,arrived at Ennis after dark, the Reese with cams worked good, sure glad to have a heavy dodge and 6.7.....
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:49 AM   #18
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I'll second cwf's experience. With a friction anti-sway I got caught on icy surface in a curve and could not turn, The whole rig just become one long integrated piece of equipment on rails. I only gained control when the front tires caught the gravel at the edge of the road...I will not travel in Icy conditions ever again, at least not on purpose. Compare this experience to the Hensley action. When you brake and the trailer tires are not holding back, the hitch off-sets as it moves up on the TV. In that position the rig is one long integrated piece of equipment and the trailer cannot twist. So PPP or Hensley, if your trailer is pushing the TV on ice I think you will not be able to turn. Anyone have different experience? please step in ..I'd like to know for certain) Very few of us like Crisen have M&S tires on the trailer that at least help as long as the trailer is braking a bit ahead of the TV.

This is my understanding ....could be wrong!

Another thought ...If there is salt on the road...which may not be used in mountains in the mid-west... your trailer will take a severe hit on all aluminum fittings; not to mention the under carriage and belly pan. We got caught in a storm east of Windsor and the newly polished fittings all got severely pitted from road salt used here in Ontario. One more reason to stay out of snow and ice

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Old 08-20-2015, 12:58 PM   #19
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Salted roads are reason enough to keep my Airstream far away from the snow.
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWDCW View Post
. . . Compare this experience to the Hensley action. When you brake and the trailer tires are not holding back, the hitch off-sets as it moves up on the TV. In that position the rig is one long integrated piece of equipment and the trailer cannot twist. So PPP or Hensley, if your trailer is pushing the TV on ice I think you will not be able to turn. Anyone have different experience? please step in ..I'd like to know for certain) Very few of us like Crisen have M&S tires on the trailer that at least help as long as the trailer is braking a bit ahead of the TV.

This is my understanding ....could be wrong!

JCW
When you brake the Hensley will not move ahead unless the brake controller is out of adjustment; Airstream pushing the truck, especially on ice, is something you never want when towing at any time. But if the trailer and hitch head did move ahead, you will still have complete steering control with the truck. We do this every time we back our trailer into a camping spot.

Your point about towing your Airstream on salted roads is on the mark. It will initiate a corrosion process on the shell and frame that will continue for years. Unless you live in the desert and it never again gets wet.
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:52 PM   #21
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We travel in and out of Denver CO for Christmas and Spring Break each year. It is often that I am forced to tow in the snow. With the old Dual Cam I have had the rear come loose twice and start to swing out only to have the Dual Cam gently bring it back into alignment. This is without a friction brake only the Dual Cam, which is one of the reasons I have not towed with a friction brake in years. Since going to the PP on the 30' Bunk I have had the rear tires break traction once but there was no real change in the position/direction (no swing out) of the truck. When you see the signs on I80 that say disengage the cruise control in snow be sure to. I also run Michelins on the trailer as there is a big difference in traction and stability especially in inclement weather.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:25 PM   #22
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2012FB thanks, that is a great comparison and just the kind of info I am looking for.

As I understand it:

PPP hitch:
When the trailer looses traction, it will put forces on the TV and that too tries to break away. but they are joined in a rigid fashion and stay inline together, the TV can too loose traction but they will move as a unit.

conventional friction sway control:
When the trailer looses traction, it will pivot about the hitch ball, applying forces on the TV and basically jack knife.

Please correct me if this is not correct!!
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:44 PM   #23
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With any of the pivot projection hitches (Four bar linkage PP or Heneley), the pivot point is around the rear wheels of the TV. This still causes sideways pressure on the rear wheels. The old Pullrite and 5th wheel hitches do the same thing. The regular, pivot around the ball behind the TV, not only applies a side push, but also induces a torque around the rear wheels of the TV. Friction dampeners dampen the sway by dissipating the sway energy, but do resist going in and out of the original straight alignment. If sway never occurs or the rig never pivots, the dampeners do nothing. The manufacturers' recommendations are to loosen the dampeners slightly when slippery conditions are present.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 2012FB View Post
We travel in and out of Denver CO for Christmas and Spring Break each year. It is often that I am forced to tow in the snow. With the old Dual Cam I have had the rear come loose twice and start to swing out only to have the Dual Cam gently bring it back into alignment. This is without a friction brake only the Dual Cam, which is one of the reasons I have not towed with a friction brake in years. Since going to the PP on the 30' Bunk I have had the rear tires break traction once but there was no real change in the position/direction (no swing out) of the truck. When you see the signs on I80 that say disengage the cruise control in snow be sure to. I also run Michelins on the trailer as there is a big difference in traction and stability especially in inclement weather.
I am not a Dual Cam expert by any means, but a Dual cam is not designed to have any additional friction devices is it? I do not believe it is.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:27 PM   #25
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Mfg instructions say lessen friction on separate friction control devises in slippery conditions.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by philipsinewe View Post
I am not a Dual Cam expert by any means, but a Dual cam is not designed to have any additional friction devices is it? I do not believe it is.
Yes, that is correct, but when I had my ML350 hitch reinforced at CANAM Andy recommended the friction bar and did weld the ball receivers on both ends. His thinking, as explained, was that there is a potential for unloading on the Dual Cam during on and off ramp transitions especially with dips. After thinking about it more I decided against using it at all, based on my fear of not having the rear come back into alignment if pushed out. I have on occasion felt the Dual Cam unload but it has not caused any problems. I have not noticed this with the PP.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:07 PM   #27
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I've always found that no matter how careful you are driving on snow or ice, the real danger is being unable to control other drivers. No one can drive safely on ice.




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Old 08-20-2015, 04:20 PM   #28
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I've always found that no matter how careful you are driving on snow or ice, the real danger is being unable to control other drivers. No one can drive safely on ice.
I could not agree more!!

When I drive in the snow I am super careful, I regularly see people falling off the road... Last winter was the worst I have known for idiots on the road...
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