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Old 03-16-2019, 11:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by markdoane View Post
The driver's weight is not included in payload.

My reasoning behind this is as follows:

1. When I pull onto the Cat scales, the call button is located on a pole and is at least 8 ft off the ground, so a driver in a semi can reach it from his window.

2. I need to get out of my vehicle and climb up the pole to push the call button. Since the pole is not on the scale, and I am hanging on the pole, my weight is not included in the weight on the ticket.

3. If I were driving a semi, or a lifted F350, then my weight would be included, as I could push the call button from the driver's seat.

I hope this illuminates the situation.
I always step back on to the scale so my weight is included and do it all with a full tank. Than I load all the gear and reweigh. Luckily I am 10 minutes from a Catscale.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:43 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane View Post
The driver's weight is not included in payload.

My reasoning behind this is as follows:

1. When I pull onto the Cat scales, the call button is located on a pole and is at least 8 ft off the ground, so a driver in a semi can reach it from his window.

2. I need to get out of my vehicle and climb up the pole to push the call button. Since the pole is not on the scale, and I am hanging on the pole, my weight is not included in the weight on the ticket.

3. If I were driving a semi, or a lifted F350, then my weight would be included, as I could push the call button from the driver's seat.

I hope this illuminates the situation.
Think I saw you on that pole as we drove by?? I just parked on the scales, walked inside and told him what I was wanting to do; he communicated with me via the camera and speakers after that.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:50 AM   #31
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No wonder the guys at the dealer are confused ...

So, SailorSam250 and Pete B55 have established (with quotes from the owner's manuals) that in the new Fords, the payload number does not factor in the driver's weight — so the drivers weight must be included when I add in the weight of my passengers and cargo. Thanks for that info.

And nvestysly and gandtimes appear to have established the same with GM's rolling stock.

What about Toyota and Nissan?
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:52 AM   #32
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And I don't anyone here is "rationalizing marginal towing."

Just "rationalizing" the numbers on the car lot.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:59 AM   #33
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Available payload differs by manufacturer

So FWIW...


When we were researching our purchase of our 2019 GT, I was also confused about what was included in the truck base weight, and what needed to be deducted from the available payload weight. (we have a 2017 Silverado 1500 CC z71 w/6.2l but not max tow package)



I ended up talking to the tech support line at Chevy (accessed through the Chevy App). They used my Vin to verify. Bottom line was that the base truck weight assumed a 150lb driver and full fluids (to include full gas tank). So anything in addition to that comes out of the available/max payload on the door sticker.


As I researched, I couldn't determine if all manufacturers make this same assumption or not. And frankly the dealer was no help. I think going direct to the manufacturer is your best way to verify.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:02 PM   #34
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Hey guys (and gals); Payload DOES NOT INCLUDE Driver...as has been noted here several times now.... Did anyone of you nay-sayers read the sticker in post #13 which has the information from the 2018 Silverado?? Check out note 3 below, from that post...Payload does not include the driver....and to just go by GVWR and do all that math is silly...this isn't rocket science. If you want to be compliant with MFG specifications (always a good thing, to me anyway!) stay within the Payload limits...sure there is likely a fudge factor, but why not just stay within limits? I will tell you why....because some of us didn't know about Payload when we purchased our TV's ;or the TV we have pulls 20K pounds so we ignore or don't understand payload; or, we just don't care. So, which category do you fall into?? As we all know, Life is Good with an Airstream....so don't let the small stuff get to ya!

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Old 03-16-2019, 12:07 PM   #35
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This is what wrong with people today -
EMPTY IS EMPTY
LOAD IS ANYTHING ADDED
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:35 PM   #36
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One more time for emphasis.
From the GM site.
Payload is the maximum allowable weight of cargo to be carried in a vehicle,including all occupants and optional equipment. Gross Vehicle weight minus Curb weight.
Curb weight is the weight of an empty vehicle without payload or driver but with all standard equipment, fuel,coolant and oil.
Which is why it is really important to read the sticker on the door jamb and not take the pie in the sky figures from the brochures.
Also why GM this year has added the Trailering Label this year with GVWR,GCWR,GAWR for the rear axle,maximum payload,maximum tongue weight and curb weight.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:56 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by RandyNH View Post
Just to clarify, I believe the word "plus" was used in error.
Plus meaning “with the addition of”, so curb weight and the items listed, added together. What’s the error?
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:29 PM   #38
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Payload has always confused me. I believe if you stay below the GVWR of the truck, you have payload covered. My goal is also to stay below the TV axle ratings.

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Old 03-16-2019, 03:09 PM   #39
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If 150 pounds is that important then you need a different tv.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:57 PM   #40
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Amen to that. I haven’t been below 150 since before I graduated from high school. (Yeah, Yeah, forever ago that was...)
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:26 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
oop's... I misspoke in the above post, all axels except the ASs'... whoever built the trailer equipped it with two 3500lb axles and still gave it a GVWR of 7300lb.
How kool is that?
Airstream didn't make a mistake on your trailer's Gross Weight. Two 3,500-pound axles PLUS tongue weight CAN equal 7,300 pounds. Whether hitched or parked, a trailer's tongue is still supporting SOME weight.


But getting back to the topic of vehicle payload, 150 pounds per person is the standard weight for converting pounds capacity to persons capacity (not only for vehicles but also for boats). But unless the vehicle's owner's manual SPECIFICALLY includes the driver's weight in the curb weight, the driver always counts as payload. Since the average American adult male weighs 195.7 pounds, a lot of us are using up more payload capacity than our fair share just by sitting in the driver's seat.


By the way, my Honda Fit toad has a payload capacity of 800 pounds, which theoretically includes five 150-pound people plus 50 pounds of cargo. Which is why there are five seatbelts in the car. But in reality the car only can carry four American adults and 20 pounds of cargo without being overloaded.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:00 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Airstream didn't make a mistake on your trailer's Gross Weight. Two 3,500-pound axles PLUS tongue weight CAN equal 7,300 pounds. Whether hitched or parked, a trailer's tongue is still supporting SOME weight.

Just look at the Cat ticket, hitched with WD SET and assure me that there is NOT 7640lb on the AS axles.

Two 3500lb axles is a poor choice for a trailer with a 7300lb GVWR and CCC of only 676LB

Bob
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