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Old 07-22-2019, 05:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
When your truck was weight at the factory it weighs 7914 with all options on your truck so GVWR - 7914 = 2086.
You are very right.

I just got back from the Cat scales and the reading is 8460.

But here is the breakdown:

Factory curb weight = 7914
A.R.E bed cap = 210
Bedslide = 190
Thule and rack = 65
Me standing on the scales = 190

Total = 8499

Pretty darn close and the mystery is solved.

I am going to buy a tongue weight scale as we speak. I really am interested in where I stand with the new adjustments on the Pro pride hitch. I have it torqued up to about 6 1/2". Since talking to all of you, that seems to be the sweet spot for my trailer. The previous Cat scale readings are with it set to about 5 3/4". Big difference.

I talked to my Ford garage and they said they would be happy to install the leaf spring for less than $200. They do it all the time. By the way, ford will sell you another leaf spring for $950! You can buy them all day for $219 and made in USA.

Even though I could still be over on the GVWR (maybe not!) I think the leaf spring will more than compensate for 320 lb. and the upper range on the payload. Let's see how things shake out. I am very interested in the results.
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
I ran across this product for an F-250 to "Add-a-Leaf" into the leaf pack. The kit purports to increase the payload capacity by 1100 lbs.

The video gives you an idea of how simple it is to install (although having a lift is Ideal) and the cost is minimal. I have heard that the difference between a single rear wheel F-350 is nothing more than an F-250 with an extra leaf spring. Well, it may not be that simple! This may add 1 1/2" of height to the rear (arg!) but 1100 lbs. of additional payload! That's nice.

Many here have said the ride difference between an F-250 and an F-350 are very similar. So why not do this to add even more stability? My F-250 diesel has a payload of 2100 I believe. Add the 30' Classic and ProPride hitch and I have about 800 lbs. leftover. Add two people and a large dog, 390 lbs. I carry about 350 lbs in the bed with cap, 60 lbs. left. It goes fast. Now add in the weight transfer with the weight distribution hitch and we might be back to 200-300 lbs. We are at the upper range.

Does this make sense? It seems like a very simple solution to a problem everyone here has to deal with. Kits are available for many trucks, and I realize you are not going to make an F-150 into an F-450, but given the similarities of the 250/350, this could work well. IMHO-WNEWTAA . (In my humble opinion with no experience with this at all)

Video:

[URL="https://youtu.be/9Asuh-cdYUo"]https://youtu.be/9Asuh-cdYUo[/URL

]
Why in the world would you need to add a spring to a F250 to " improve the quality of your towing experience " when you are using a ProPride hitch , the ultimate mother of all safest and grandest hitch ever designed by a human.
Matter of fact why do you even need the F-250 ?
Shouldn't you be towing with a Chrysler Minivan for that ultimate towing experience ?
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:42 PM   #23
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Payload? So why not add a leaf?

I may not be able to add anything helpful to the OP, but this may be a good time for me to ask a question that up until now I have been afraid to ask thinking it is a stupid question. I own a 3/4 ton Dodge, extended cab, LB pickup that I bought used. The original owner had the vehicle specially built to his specifications. The window sticker (which came with the vehicle) lists all the options the original owner requested including the "Trailer Tow Group" and the "Camper Special Group". I believe the tow group includes the receiver hitch, trailer plug-in, brake controller, etc. My question is what would the camper special group include? Would that be an extra leaf in the springs and, if so, is it roughly equivalent to a one-ton vehicle? Any response would be appreciated!
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:43 PM   #24
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Franklyfrank

Your right! I didn't think of that.
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Philip498 View Post
I may not be able to add anything helpful to the OP, but this may be a good time for me to ask a question that up until now I have been afraid to ask thinking it is a stupid question. I own a 3/4 ton Dodge, extended cab, LB pickup that I bought used. The original owner had the vehicle specially built to his specifications. The window sticker (which came with the vehicle) lists all the options the original owner requested including the "Trailer Tow Group" and the "Camper Special Group". I believe the tow group includes the receiver hitch, trailer plug-in, brake controller, etc. My question is what would the camper special group include? Would that be an extra leaf in the springs and, if so, is it roughly equivalent to a one-ton vehicle? Any response would be appreciated!
I don't know about Dodge, but Ford's Camper package includes one grade stiffer front springs if they havn't already been mandated by some other package, a rear leaf helper spring, and a rear stabilizer bar. Since it's a helper spring and not an additional leaf in the main spring pack I don't believe that it changes the rating of a 3/4 ton to a full one ton.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:40 AM   #26
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With weight distribution

Steer = 4920
drive = 5400
trailer = 8840

No weight distribution is:

steer - 4640
drive = 5740
trailer= 8640

In my novice opinion you have to much weight on the front of your truck with the weight distribution. In my experience the ride and handling is at it's best when the front axle was near (slightly under) the unloaded weight. I would readjust your weight distribution to get more weight on the rear of the truck. Keep the weight in line with the GAWR.

If I crank up the weight distribution too much the ride is very rough, too little wd and you get porpoising - this seems to jive with my Cat Scale results and front axle weights. Now I just go by feel. Sometimes we run a little lighter on long trips and shorter trips get weighted down with everything. Also make sure the tow vehicle tire pressure is at the proper psi.
If you were hauling a lot of weight (firewood or motorcycle) I would not add a leaf but rather as another poster said use air bags to level the truck and dial the ride. As you know the wd will throw the tongue weight to the trailer wheels and front axle of the truck.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:23 AM   #27
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In my novice opinion you have to much weight on the front of your truck with the weight distribution. In my experience the ride and handling is at it's best when the front axle was near (slightly under) the unloaded weight. I would readjust your weight distribution to get more weight on the rear of the truck. Keep the weight in line with the GAWR.

If I crank up the weight distribution too much the ride is very rough, too little wd and you get porpoising - this seems to jive with my Cat Scale results and front axle weights. Now I just go by feel. Sometimes we run a little lighter on long trips and shorter trips get weighted down with everything. Also make sure the tow vehicle tire pressure is at the proper psi.
If you were hauling a lot of weight (firewood or motorcycle) I would not add a leaf but rather as another poster said use air bags to level the truck and dial the ride. As you know the wd will throw the tongue weight to the trailer wheels and front axle of the truck.
So your saying with weight distribution cranked where I have it, the almost 300 lbs. is too much? You do know I have a diesel up there right? Does that affect anything?

Right now I need to get my trailer back from JC and do a proper weigh at the Cat scales. The tickets I used are old ( except for the last truck weigh)and a lot has changed. My payload will drop, my ProPride problem is solved, and the trailer should be lighter as we removed items we do not need.

Currently, my truck and trailer ride very well. I did notice a little porpoising so I can try lowering the weight distribution as you say. I can do that now that my hitch is working well. It was cranked to 6 1/2" as the front was a little higher than the rear. Adding the leaf or airbags can help with that. I am still leaning toward using the leaf spring. If I had it to do again, the f-350 would have been in my garage. Heck, none of these fit in my garage. Too high!
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:18 AM   #28
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No such thing as too stiff?

One thing nobody has mentioned unless I missed it is that there is such a thing as too stiff a rear spring pack. That can have a bad effect on both campers and trailers. In my own case I have overload springs that sit above the main springs and catch perches on the frame once there is about 1,500 pounds load. When I got the truck there were four leaves in the overloads as it had been used by The Richfield bulk oil plant to haul 6 or 7 barrels of oil at 500 lbs each.


Cutting to the chase, I took 2 leaves out but too late. Rough roads had done structural damage to the Avion camper and shaken apart some of the cabinetry. Fixing that was last summer's project. I've only pulled our 30' Avion with the pickup once. We pull it with a stock 2500 Suburban.



I talked to a retired trucker at the vintage trailer show who was pulling a three axle Avion with a 359 Peterbilt tractor. He said he had to use an air ride hitch so the road shock of the stiffly sprung tractor wouldn't flex the frame and bend the bottom edge of the coach at the front. He cautioned that stiffly sprung pickups would do the same.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:23 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
So your saying with weight distribution cranked where I have it, the almost 300 lbs. is too much? You do know I have a diesel up there right? Does that affect anything?



Right now I need to get my trailer back from JC and do a proper weigh at the Cat scales. The tickets I used are old ( except for the last truck weigh)and a lot has changed. My payload will drop, my ProPride problem is solved, and the trailer should be lighter as we removed items we do not need.



Currently, my truck and trailer ride very well. I did notice a little porpoising so I can try lowering the weight distribution as you say. I can do that now that my hitch is working well. It was cranked to 6 1/2" as the front was a little higher than the rear. Adding the leaf or airbags can help with that. I am still leaning toward using the leaf spring. If I had it to do again, the f-350 would have been in my garage. Heck, none of these fit in my garage. Too high!


What’s the steer axle of the truck alone without trailer attached?
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:53 AM   #30
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What’s the steer axle of the truck alone without trailer attached?
Steer = 4860

Drive = 3600

Gross = 8460

This includes Cap, Thule, and bedslide.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:01 AM   #31
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snip..."Adding the leaf or airbags can help with that. I am still leaning toward using the leaf spring. If I had it to do again, the f-350 would have been in my garage. Heck, none of these fit in my garage. Too high!"

You have too much weight on the steering axle.

Do NOT add anything, get the proper weight on the steering axle.
Shoot for the same or less than the TV alone loaded for camping weight. Road test the various settings and choose the best one for your rig.

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Old 07-23-2019, 10:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
Steer = 4860



Drive = 3600



Gross = 8460



This includes Cap, Thule, and bedslide.


So you’re only reloading the steer axle by 100%+60# if you get it to 4920# with WD. That doesn’t feel excessive. Your truck may however only want you to restore 50% of the weight back to the steer axle - my user manual (Chevy Duramax) wants 50%. But I think I’m closer to 75-80% and it feels right - no porpoising, no understeer.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS;2267750

You have too much weight on the steering axle.

Do NOT add anything, get the proper weight on the steering axle.
Shoot for the same or less than the TV alone loaded for camping weight. Road test the various settings and choose the best one for [I
your[/I] rig.

Bob
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OK, how do I trim off the weight of the diesel engine???

These weights are the curb weight of the truck with nothing inside. Cap, thule storage on bed cap, and bedslide.

Maybe I could take the front tires off.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:32 AM   #34
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So you’re only reloading the steer axle by 100%+60# if you get it to 4920# with WD. That doesn’t feel excessive. Your truck may however only want you to restore 50% of the weight back to the steer axle - my user manual (Chevy Duramax) wants 50%. But I think I’m closer to 75-80% and it feels right - no porpoising, no understeer.
I understand. I need to weight this all again to find out the true loading on the front with and without weight distribution. Also, I will check the trailer with the same loadings. I have my Sherline tongue scale coming also to get a reading on true tongue weight.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:58 AM   #35
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OK, how do I trim off the weight of the diesel engine???



These weights are the curb weight of the truck with nothing inside. Cap, thule storage on bed cap, and bedslide.



Maybe I could take the front tires off.


[emoji23]

Here are a recent set of tickets for my diesel and 27FB. You can see I’ve put about 75-80% of the weight lifted off the steer axle back on w/WD. With the PPP hitches you can dial in as little or as much as you need.

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Old 07-23-2019, 11:19 AM   #36
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OK, how do I trim off the weight of the diesel engine???

These weights are the curb weight of the truck with nothing inside. Cap, thule storage on bed cap, and bedslide.

Maybe I could take the front tires off.
As Steve noted...restore the weight with your WD hitch.

With our rig I'm comfortable at 100lb light.🤓

Bob
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TV
Rig w/o WD set
Rig with WD set.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:52 AM   #37
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OK, how do I trim off the weight of the diesel engine???



These weights are the curb weight of the truck with nothing inside. Cap, thule storage on bed cap, and bedslide.



Maybe I could take the front tires off.


One other thing I should have mentioned - the limits for my truck are:

Steer: 5200
Drive: 6200
GVWR: 10,000

Are you trying to lighten the steer axles because you’re over the axle weight rating? I would imagine if yours is a diesel like mine, it’s expecting about 2.5T up front....
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:56 AM   #38
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With weight distribution

Steer = 4920
drive = 5400
trailer = 8840

No weight distribution is:

steer - 4640
drive = 5740
trailer= 8640

Get one more pass on the scale with the truck by itself (loaded for camping), compare the numbers and this will make more sense to you. Too much overloading of the front axle and you can put premature wear on the trucks ball joints. Aftermarket deer killer bumpers and snow plows cause this issue.



The 10,000 gvw is more of a legal classification for commercial hauling and licensing. The GAWR and the GCWR are the most important factors to truly key into for private use while still keeping the tow vehicle within the design limits. Payload can be fudged a little bit unless your getting into high center of gravity such as a truck camper. I can't imagine your F250 needing any more capacity unless your hauling a motorcycle, quad, too much firewood, etc.....



The previous owner of our older Classic AS apparently towed with a very heavily sprung truck as our trailer was having a bad case of "front end separation" (cracked aluminum panel behind the lp tanks and popped rivets behind the lower belt line). Just an example of "too much truck", compared to "not enough truck" and "just right". My money is on your F250 being "just right".
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:21 AM   #39
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The springs do one thing: suspend the truck body above the truck frame.
Adding stiffer springs will allow you to keep the body suspended above the frame in your desired neutral position (same ride height).
Springs will not increase your weight carrying capacity other than keeping the ride height the same.
With the right springs you would be able to put 30,000 lbs in your bed and still have the truck sit at a normal height, yet the truck would be destroyed pretty quick when you drive it.
Increasing the spring capacity works great, but ONLY within the parameters of the ability of the rest of the truck to carry the weight.
Do match springs for the weight you are going to carry.
Do Not overload the truck.

You can also remove all 4 springs and put in solid steel spacers. In theory this would allow you to add unlimited amount of weight and the truck would maintain the same ride height.
This would not increase your weight carrying capacity.

Don't confuse suspension with capacity.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:32 AM   #40
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Prefer air bags

Turk,
That would work, not sure the price, but also any spring shop can add a leaf to the pack. As well, I remember F250's having an upper spring that only came into contact when laoded heavily..
For me that's the key, adding a leaf stiffens it up but at all times, empty and ;loaded, ie harsh. Height? you can add a block for that and still have the normal spring rate.

I had an F150 with an arched spring added to the top of the stock pack.. not bad but again stiff when empty.
I have since settled on the air bags. https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/suspe...ford/f250-f350
There are other makes and better prices..
Installation is much simpler than disassembling the stock pack.. easy to do in the driveway. Best thing, infinitely variable rate. You keep a minimum pressure in when empty but pumped up it gie the height and laod capacity.
They have pump kits.. I just leave the valves, will be mounting a gauge but no big hassle.
Good luck
Rick
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