Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-28-2015, 09:51 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,402
Images: 5
Bob,
Where does it say "payload" on that sticker?

But you're right, all that matters is FGAWR, RGAWR, GVWR, GCWR, Receiver weight rating from the TV mfr's perspective.

From the trailer mfr's perspective, all that matters is GVWR (trailer), Axle weight ratings, TW rating....and of course max tire weight rating for both.
__________________

__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2015, 10:03 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Bob,
Where does it say "payload" on that sticker?

But you're right, all that matters is FGAWR, RGAWR, GVWR, GCWR, Receiver weight rating from the TV mfr's perspective.

From the trailer mfr's perspective, all that matters is GVWR (trailer), Axle weight ratings, TW rating....and of course max tire weight rating for both.
Rich, best two posts I've seen in a long time. Forget payload, it's a stupid outdated term; what matters are the weight ratings mentioned above, and that is what we ought to be concerned with.
__________________

__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2015, 10:29 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,319
The GVWR on all three of my trucks was substantially less than the sum of the two axle ratings. The axle rating is just that, the carrying capacity of the axles. GVWR includes the engine and drive train, brakes, frame, etc. Will you be OK at the axle ratings? Probably, but life of some components and potentially safety may be compromised. I choose not to take that risk. To each his own.

Also, if you plan on much hilly travel, margins as high as 20% are recommended. In my case I was towing less than 5500# and should have had 7350# of towing capacity and couldn't get up a 6-mile 8% grade with a 5.4L gas engine through a 4speed auto to a 3.73 rear end. That equates to 25% margin. Would a more modern engine/drive train combo have done better? Probably. A diesel, definitely.

A friend of mine used to say "overkill is just about right". When towing, i beiieve it.

Just my experience, YMMV.

Al
__________________

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"

Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
2002 Classic 30 Slideout
S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
2001 Safari 25 RB Twin (Gone, but not forgotten)
WBCCI 1322, TAC FL-39, AIR 82265

Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2015, 10:32 PM   #32
3 Rivet Member
 
2004 22' Safari
Albuquerque , New Mexico
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
I agree with you about that. But depending on which one of you guys I listen to, I don't need a new truck. Or if I do buy a new tow vehicle as planned, it can be a new Subrurban or Expedition EL. Then again, if I listen to another person, I need, must I should say, go buy a 3/4 ton truck.

When I take answers I have reviewed about how payload is calculated to opposite sides of the spectrum, our payload is 1700 lbs or 1300, roughly. This is very significant as the Suburban and Expedition can be bought with 1450-1565 lb payloads. That decision, SUV vs 3/4 ton truck, is why I need to know what the truth is. With wife, two small kids, and a German shepherd, an SUV works better. But if I need a 3/4 ton truck, that's what we will buy. However, the need part is overly muddy at the moment.

I still don't know if 150 lb driver, or the new info here, 150 lb passenger, is counted against payload sticker or is a 'freebie' so to speak.

Then the issue of a full tank of gas, and into that fluids elsewhere in vehicle.

Then the WD hitch, does that weight count off the payload sticker, or do most folks believe it takes 1/3 of camper hitch weight off vehicle and place that weight on camper axles.


Maybe I'm just more dense than I thought. But I'm hearing varying opinions still and have no way to decipher which is which. Thanks for the thought provoking suggestions. I think I am beginning to see why so many folks are buying more truck than they need. Or one of the reasons at any rate.


Dan
Confusing huh?

One other thing I might throw into the mix that you may not have thought a lot about. If there is a likelihood that you will carry one or more generators or gas cans, you probably don't want them in the cabin of an SUV with the passengers. The smell can be overpowering.

I wanted to get an SUV in the worst way as I wanted the gas mileage improvements when not towing. Fortunately, I had a couple of folks experienced with some heavy towing and they (and my dealer) convinced me that the truck was the better answer. The dealer told some stories of brand new AS units overturned and totalled with potential injury to the occupants of the tow vehicle especially for SUVs with short wheel bases (read this as full sized Ford Bronco for example).

Anyway, I have a 2004 22 foot Safari with a curb weight around 3200 with a max trailer weight of around 4500 (actual numbers availabe at Colonial Airstream archive) so if I can keep the tongue weight in place, I have some decent payload capacity there. With a properly set up Equilizer WD hitch I avoid some individual axle problems with the transfer of weight to front TV axle and trailer axles. And with all of the good things I had heard of from Toyota owners, I went with the Tundra. I put two Honda 2K generators in the bed of the truck (covered by a Leer Tonneau). I can easily handle them one at a time and synchronize them with the optional cable to give me enough power to do my A/C and virtually anything else I want (I didn't get and don't want a microwave but have a propane oven and three burner and do have a toaster and one cup Keurig). I usually carry two 6 gallon metal gas cans and a 6 gallon marine gas can that I use to feed both generators with special caps using the OMC marine connectors. Can run days in Boondock mode on that.

The only drawback to the Tundra is its 26.2 gallon fuel tank (an aftermarket tank will about double that for $1195 which I presume is without installation). I have to plan my route and my fuel stops, although I am not sure that is a bad thing. 12 gallons that I can use to top off the generator tank if Boondocking and effectively 18 gallons in the 2-6 gallon metal gas cans racheted to the Tundra bed rail system along with a 6 gallon marine tank should give me plenty of backup if I find my planned gas stop has closed its doors...effectively 44 gallons if I need it.

Only thing I have tried to do is to tow with empty water tanks as much as possible. If I can fill the potable water tank near my destination, I can save significant payload.

Last year I took the rig to Okie-Tex Star Party (semi boondocking) and stayed 10 days leaving with only 1/8 of a black tank full and 1/8 of a grey tank full. I kept getting low readings on my potable tank and kept trying to feed the main tank from a 6 gallon water jug I wheeled from the bunkhouse, but I could never put more than 3 gallons in. I finally decided I had some significant problems with the sensors and had 24 gallons or better all of the time.


Just some added thought. Don't try to convince yourself your SUV will do it and find yourself losing money on a trade-in the next year. People were very happy with the 3/4 ton Suburban, but I don't know if that is still available.

Another Dan.
__________________
Silver.Sanctuary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2015, 10:48 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' Classic
Erie , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,245
Images: 1
Back to my previous post, go shopping. Take each of your choices to a CAT scale or other nearby truck scale that can weigh each axle. Find dealers that are close to a scale. At CAT the first trip will cost you $10-11. Each additional weigh within 24 hours costs $2. Hopefully a local dealer will have something that is close to your final wish list. Compare the results from the scales to the stickers. Be sitting down when you do the comparison.

Don't think that an SUV will get any better gas mileage than the current crop of trucks. Overall size of a standard bed Chevy/GM is the same length as a Suburban. And the additional interior of the Suburban typically causes it to weigh more than the equivalent pickup and reduces the available weight available for all cargo.

And the thought of a couple of Honda 2000's sitting in the back of an SUV cooking in the sun with the resulting gas expansion and fumes makes me sick. Bad enough in the back of the Sierra when the cover is in place.
__________________
Gary
2015 Classic
2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
ProPride
NVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 05:18 AM   #34
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Bob,
Where does it say "payload" on that sticker?

But you're right, all that matters is FGAWR, RGAWR, GVWR, GCWR, Receiver weight rating from the TV mfr's perspective.

From the trailer mfr's perspective, all that matters is GVWR (trailer), Axle weight ratings, TW rating....and of course max tire weight rating for both.

Rich,

A "this sticker" is different from a payload sticker.

Don't ever recall seeing 'payload', photo please, so I know what I'm for.

Bob
__________________
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 07:20 AM   #35
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,402
Images: 5
Bob,
The labeling changed since your production. The tire information is now (GM) on a separate silver/black sticker. I believe ALL mfrs are required to use the same yellow "GVW sticker"

That yellow sticker states a "never exceed occupants and cargo" number. That is an "all in" number after all FACTORY ordered options are considered. It also includes all factory ordered, but dealer installed, options. Actually makes things much simpler, except we keep holding onto old ideas and definitions.

From this sticker: GVWR - "never exceed number" = curb weight as produced

Load all your stuff, including the fuzzy dice and weigh. your weight - curb weight = your added accessories and cargo load and family (inc. doggie)

You can perform the weight thing by loading up your current vehicle with everybody and everything, weight it. Go home and unload your camping people and gear, go back and weigh again. subtract weight 2 from weight 1. Go shopping with that number and compare yellow stickers' "Never exceed number".
(of course, you'll need to know the total receiver weight of your AS and hitch setup and account for that as well.)
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 08:23 AM   #36
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

Ahhhh....I suspected as much.

I do recall seeing 'yellow' stickers on the new stuff before retiring in '09.....I think.

Bob
__________________
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 09:37 AM   #37
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' Classic
Erie , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,245
Images: 1
Here's my stickers. 2015 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax.

Click image for larger version

Name:	FullSizeRender.jpg
Views:	388
Size:	462.2 KB
ID:	244168

Click image for larger version

Name:	FullSizeRender[1].jpg
Views:	509
Size:	507.7 KB
ID:	244169
__________________
Gary
2015 Classic
2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
ProPride
NVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 12:40 PM   #38
4 Rivet Member
 
Rockingham , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 353
Thanks guys and gals. Would be lying if I said I fully understood how payload is determined. Varying opinions of course here, but I do see a pattern.

We have decided to skip the SUV, as much as we would like one. We have seen some nice 3/4-1 ton trucks lately, GMC 2500 Denali and Ford F-350 my favorites.

But today the wife and I went out of town to Fayetteville,NC and test drove a Dodge Mega cab 3500 with Cummings 6.7. Very impressed. Backseat will hold two kids with plenty of center floorboard for german shepherd. This is the only truck we have seen that will allow dog in cab. Other trucks will require a cap on back.

We then drove half hour to another Dodge dealer that had a Mega Cab 2500 with Hemi 6.4. We liked the way both drove. Very impressive and payload was 4108 on the 3500!

What surprised us, both trucks MSRP was $55k. Looks like lots more truck for the money than the others we had seen. Salesman said we could likely buy for $50k out the door if we wanted to come inside. It was tempting.


Dan
__________________
Danattherock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 05:54 PM   #39
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' Classic
Erie , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,245
Images: 1
Friend has the Megacab 2500 with the Ram Storage box system. Nice setup, keeps things handy and your right about the room inside. Very nice setup. Pulls his Classic with ease.
__________________
Gary
2015 Classic
2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
ProPride
NVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 07:16 PM   #40
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar

 
2008 25' Classic
Wichita Falls , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,217
Doesn't the Mega Cab only have a 5 1/2' bed. Not much storage on it unless you get a camper shell so the storage box system won't work. Dan, what was the payload sticker values on those vehicles?

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 07:23 PM   #41
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar

 
2008 25' Classic
Wichita Falls , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaynes755 View Post
Here's my stickers. 2015 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax.

Attachment 244168

Attachment 244169
The Denali package really hits the payload. I'm thinking the new GM Double Cab would fit our needs. GM has gotten rid of the suicide doors. We don't need to haul people in the back seats so a crew is kind of a waste of space and the double cab with 6 1/2' bed is about the same length as the Tundra so easier to park than a crew cab. Payload should be higher too. An LT Duramax 4x4 would be OK as long as it has the rear view camera, BT enabled system for cell phone connectivity and step bars. Don't need leather and the center fold down seat looks better than Ford's.

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 07:31 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,319
Kelvin,
I bought a 2013 megacab over a 2012 supercab long bed because the long bed was bigger and harder to drive than my F150 Laramie supercrew. The megacab just seemed right. We love the megacab for our three dogs. Also very comfortable when hauling passengers. And for extra cargo the flat floor with the seats down is great.

Al
__________________

__________________

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"

Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
2002 Classic 30 Slideout
S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
2001 Safari 25 RB Twin (Gone, but not forgotten)
WBCCI 1322, TAC FL-39, AIR 82265

Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forgive me: Does tongue weight count against payload? marter Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 105 09-24-2017 08:51 PM
New - Does an Interstate Still Count:-)? mjwcubed Airstream Motorhome Forums 16 05-11-2015 11:13 PM
Ford 2014 Ecoboost 150 with Max tow and HD payload Rollster On The Road... 27 01-20-2015 09:10 AM
Driver seat does not pivot 180 dateem Land Yacht/Legacy Motorhomes 11 11-12-2014 03:32 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.