Out of control sway

[cazual6]

Team,

So I measured how much I can shorten the shank: 3.5"

I am scheduled to take it to the shop Tue, July 5.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by RareStream

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T
I would recommend caution in attachments to the AS/other trailer body halfway or whatever up, since the frame for the body is much lighter weight, than is the main steel tube or "C" section frame below the floor & extending to the bumper.

While you can stabilize somewhat at the body mid-line, you really should have securing tie-backs down to the bumper &/or main frame extensions holding the bumper. I've seen typical webbed-belt cargo tie-down straps around or hooked to the main frame itself, & up to the top of the bike rack & bikes, successfully used for this purpose.

Be Safe,
Tom
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While your advice is sound, it doesn't necessarily apply the same way to an Airstream as it does to other trailers.

The point of securing the bikes to the structural ribs at the mid-line is to take some of the load OFF of the frame, to prevent oscillations and dynamic movement which over time will rip the shell FROM the frame.

Securing EVERYTHING to the frame alone is going to contribute to the problem.

That's why the Fiamma rack is designed the way it is; the two upper anchors (that sadly break in half) are secured to two vertical support ribs on the back of the trailer to keep the dynamic forces from being SOLELY tied to the frame itself.

Howie in the post above this one has the RIGHT idea.

Just to be clear, I was saying to use the diagonal straps or braces down to the bumper or frame extensions in addition to the mid-body brace/attachment.

As you say above, the mid-body bracing prevents torsion, while the bike rack mount to the bumper carries vertical wt., & then the diagonal braces/straps prevent the L-to-R swaying which can happen - especially on single post types of racks like Caz is using.

The diagonals are in the same plane as the rack vertical(s) - so they do little or nothing for stopping the torsional or rotational movement.

Thanx for pointing that out.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Team,

So I measured how much I can shorten the shank: 3.5"

I am scheduled to take it to the shop Tue, July 5.

Caz -

You may not need to cut the shank at all, & cut into the powder coating, etc. back there. You may be able to just drill the holes through the shank further back towards the rack upright braces, in order to mount the rack closer to the back of your AS.

To check this weekend - drill the new outer securing pin thru holes on the shank 1st - the placement at 3.5" or whatever distance will still work for your bikes' clearance to the body at further into the bumper mounted receiver's 2"sq hole, then measure the shank to see if it will still clear your trailer body/frame/bumper parts underneath there first, with it pushed further in to the new 2nd hitch mounting pin hole.

You can also measure or mock it up with paper or chipboard/cardboard too, to check that clearance.

Let me know about the Sherline HW scale offer from my PM whenever works.

Good Luck Caz, & Have a Great 4th All!
Tom
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[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Team,

So I measured how much I can shorten the shank: 3.5"

I am scheduled to take it to the shop Tue, July 5.

"Team".

I think that's kind of sweet.

It took him awhile, but he does seem to realize help is here.


Maggie

[RareStream]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Just to be clear, I was saying to use the diagonal straps or braces down to the bumper or frame extensions in addition to the mid-body brace/attachment.

As you say above, the mid-body bracing prevents torsion, while the bike rack mount to the bumper carries vertical wt., & then the diagonal braces/straps prevent the L-to-R swaying which can happen - especially on single post types of racks like Caz is using.

The diagonals are in the same plane as the rack vertical(s) - so they do little or nothing for stopping the torsional or rotational movement.

Thanx for pointing that out.

Cheers!
Tom
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Well THAT makes sense then, Tom!!!

[cazual6]

Tom, I had to shave 1/16 of an inch just to get it to where it is now. The shank can't go in more without cutting the shank.

I also had created anchor points before to prevent the mount from having any play Left to Right. That was before I purchased that hitch mount tightener to remove any play. Anchor points were at the sides of the bumper storage.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Tom, I had to shave 1/16 of an inch just to get it to where it is now. The shank can't go in more without cutting the shank.

I also had created anchor points before to prevent the mount from having any play Left to Right. That was before I purchased that hitch mount tightener to remove any play. Anchor points were at the sides of the bumper storage.

Gotcha Caz on the length. Have them drill the holes at the spot you mark, then re-prime & re-paint it to prevent the rust, since they're doing it all for you.

Also, those shank tighteners are really just "rattle stops" & only take up the natural play between the receiver & shank. Although they advertise them to stop sway & other movement, they're really just marginally successful at that. I know, cuz I have similar Curt ones which I use on the Swing Daddy on our Westfalia, & on the cargo pan & bike racks for the trailer - but only for rattle stop duty.

So do go ahead & use those L & R anchor points which you wisely had put on - in addition to your rattle stop - to secure the rack & bikes from swaying/movement.

You can get a pack of 2-4 of the 1" webbing ratcheting cargo straps at Harbor Freight, Home Despot, Lowes, Auto Parts stores, etc. However, do also use some sort rub protection under where the straps cross the edge of your bumper/step, so it won't cut thru the webbing with vibration/movement while traveling. You can use simple things like pieces of old bike inner tubes, cut out pieces of milk jugs, etc.- to place between the straps & the sharp/thin edges before you ratchet the straps down tight.

PS - This is the type of rattle stop I have, which is Roadmaster, but I think my Curt is the same thing (they're on sale at CW now for anyone looking for them) -

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...&utm_campaign=

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

For others looking for rattle stop/hitch tighteners - you can see Caz's in his pix (I don't know his brand); & this is a pic of the "Quiet Hitch" rattle stopper FYI, which requires a receiver with a lip at the end to work, as in the pic below.

These would be a multiple "belt, suspenders + clips" as part of an overall bike or cargo rack stabilization solution. However, do NOT believe their advertising BS that it is a sway control device!

PS - It only cinches up the shank tighter inside the receiver so it can't move the 1/16" or so of play they have to insert/remove the shank, so it can't rattle around in there - period.

PSS - BTW - I don't use one in conjunction with my WD/SC hitch either (the Hensley Cub in my case), & I don't think most WD/SC mfgrs. would recco using them with their WD/SC units either. I just use them to tighten up bike & cargo racks from rattling.

Cheers!
Tom
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[cazual6]

Team,

Here is the update.

I cut the shank of the bike mount to the max, 3.25". I was gonna for 3.5" but it would not work.

I went to Ventura KOA this weekend, just came back (July 8,9,10).

Black and Gray tank empty. Fresh water, in the front ( 90% full). Hand my new single sway control (right side) a good tight crank.

Knowing all the advises I got from this thread, and did calculations on my own while KEEPING IN MIND all the advices I got.

I started 45mph on the back roads. 50, 52, 55, 58, 60 and maxed at 65mph. No sway. No problems. This was a two lane highway with no one on the road, as to not be a weapon to anyone else. You know who you are

I got on the 101 south, started at 50mph, 55, 65 and cruised at 58mph. Big rig zoomed by me (at least it felt like it) solid as a rock. No sway all the way home.

This is just an update to let you guys know it can be done SAFELY. The two bikes you see are kids. The blue one, very outside is 26lbs and the gray inside is 29lbs. I put the blue one on the very outside as to eliminate moving it back and back to see if problems would arise. I just put it in the back and I was gonna move it in if it had to be done.

The two adults bikes will stay inside the AS. I didn't take on this trip, but if I did, they would stay inside.

I am not post this update to put anyone down or to dismiss all the advise. I am merely updating you because I love that you cared so much

[dkottum]

For the benefit of whoever cares, this is NOT BEING DONE SAFELY, just a little less unsafe than four bikes dangling out there unsupported top and bottom.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

For others looking for rattle stop/hitch tighteners - you can see Caz's in his pix (I don't know his brand); & this is a pic of the "Quiet Hitch" rattle stopper FYI, which requires a receiver with a lip at the end to work, as in the pic below.

These would be a multiple "belt, suspenders + clips" as part of an overall bike or cargo rack stabilization solution. However, do NOT believe their advertising BS that it is a sway control device!

PS - It only cinches up the shank tighter inside the receiver so it can't move the 1/16" or so of play they have to insert/remove the shank, so it can't rattle around in there - period.

PSS - BTW - I don't use one in conjunction with my WD/SC hitch either (the Hensley Cub in my case), & I don't think most WD/SC mfgrs. would recco using them with their WD/SC units either. I just use them to tighten up bike & cargo racks from rattling.

Cheers!
Tom
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Here is the hitch tightener

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by dkottum

For the benefit of whoever cares, this is NOT BEING DONE SAFELY, just a little less unsafe than four bikes dangling out there unsupported top and bottom.

Really?

[Tom_T]

Hey Caz,

Glad you got it sorted.

I'd still suggest that you get the sway control unit for both sides, so you have a bit more protection for when & where we get high winds in SoCal (e.g: north of Santa Barbara on 101, Lancaster, I-10/40 in the I.E. during Santa Ana Winds, etc.) - just to have a bit more safety margin on killing sway.

You may already know the 126 between I-5 by Tragic Mountain, to Ventura as a better alternative than 101 thru the West SFV-Thousand Jokes-Camarillo - especially for trailers. On that route, the Shell stop on the south side of 126 just on the east end of Santa Paula is a good trailer-friendly" fuel stop & C-store/Subway.

Safe Travels!
Tom
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[cazual6]

It will be on my to do list. Any advice on how tight I should set sway bar? It makes noise when I turn, I was told it is suppose to do that right after I lubed it on my first two trips. Rookie mistake. Right now I have it slight tighter than hand tight. I didn't want to take a chance of having it too loose.

[xrvr]

There should be a bolt head on the side to tighten the friction. I tighten the handle hand tight and a push more. Directions are on the side if the bar or with paperwork.

[xrvr]

No lubricant on the sc these act like brakes on the car, use the same type of material, and you wouldn't want lube on your tv brakes.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Really?

C6 - respectfully, yes. Travel safe. Pat

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by PKI

C6 - respectfully, yes. Travel safe. Pat

Ditto, agree with Pat and Doug.

It is the same old question, which continues to be ignored over and over.

Is the installation of the bike rack in compliance with Airstream specifications?

I believe the answer is still "no."

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Ditto, agree with Pat and Doug.

It is the same old question, which continues to be ignored over and over.

Is the installation of the bike rack in compliance with Airstream specifications?

I believe the answer is still "no."

Respect, and respected. Thank you.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by avionstream

No lubricant on the sc these act like brakes on the car, use the same type of material, and you wouldn't want lube on your tv brakes.

I agree Caz, & you may have to "ungrease"/"un-lube" those friction plates if you got it inside, or replace them. Those SC units on your hitch are friction based, so you undid the resistance.

BTW - another reason why I suggested both sides' SC units, is that it will be symmetrical & each side will compliment the other in motion. I've only seen a single side SC unit used on really small & light trailers.

As for the hitch comments by others - I don't have an AS with their reccos fro stabilizing the racks, but you shouldn't have to buy & use the AS specific rack. However, you may want to use those tie-downs L & R that you originally had installed, with those load tie-down ratchet straps which I mentioned, especially once those 2 kids bikes "grow" to full sized ones!

IMHO - I think that with the proper WD/SC hitch set-up, proper HW, the bike rack not too far out back & stabilized for L-to-R & F-to-R movement at the top, & not exceeding whatever weight limit AS has put on loading anything on the rear bumper & any other weight specs for your TT & TV - I think that can safely carry 2 full sized bikes on there, & perhaps 4. So I'm not sure that I agree with the 3 others still worried about the bikes/rack. Perhaps I would, if they were bigger bikes?

Thanx for your work & reporting back on here, as that will be good guidance for me, when I set-up our similar Swagman rack on our Avion T20's bumper - once we get our own permanent mid-size SUV TV (Cayenne S or possibly 4Runner/Lexus GX/LX/Land Cruiser). For now, it's easier just to put them in the bed of the rented pick-ups, so I'm putting it off until then.

Of course for caution's sake, they do say that Avions were built better & stronger than AS's then & today - plus I'm using a Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch, so take my plans & experience with a grain of salt - vs. your different & newer AS.

Cheers!
Tom
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