Out of control sway

[cazual6]

Thanks Tom. The original sway bar that I greased has been donated to the recycling center many moons ago. I bought a new one and did not grease it as I did on my rookie mistake. I opted out for the tie downs because the anti- rattle , are you saying I should still put them on as well? I believe I still have them so it don't be a problem. As for your bike racks, remember it has to be designed for a trailer. Most Bike racks will say in the manual not intended for trailers/RV. (Been using the app the reply, still learning how it formats the response whether it quotes or not. How to add imojis, etc. )

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

BTW - another reason why I suggested both sides' SC units, is that it will be symmetrical & each side will compliment the other in motion. I've only seen a single side SC unit used on really small & light trailers.


Cheers!
Tom
///////

Is my FC19 considered small and light trailer? Getting the sway bar is less than $100, I figured someone to drill and install for me, maybe $50 (I don't like to drill heavy especially after getting my nails done ) So dollar wise, not a big deal. Would it look odd to have two sway bars on a FC19? Maybe putting four bikes will make sense for the second sway bar(i'm ready for the blow back from that statement) When I put that second sway bar, I'm gonna find a empty straight away to test, where I won't be a weapon to anyone.

Anyone know of a test track where I can test this out?

[xrvr]

Etrailer has a sc bracket that can be welded on either side so you can have two units. Cost me thirty bucks to have two welded onto my ball mount. These alteady have the hole for the small trailer ball. Using these brackets puts the sc balls at the correct distance on the hitch head or ball mount. Use two if the trailer is over twenty five according to the instructions. I would still use two in your case if I could.

[OTRA15]

Adding more sway control to a poorly designed system is a recipe for disaster, in my personal opinion.

[xrvr]

The sway control I am talking about should be used on his trailer even without the bike rack. His WD evidently does not have built in sc so the add on units are necessary and work well. Good camping!

[Tom_T]

Caz - see my inserted comments in bold/italic below....

Originally Posted by cazual6

Thanks Tom. The original sway bar that I greased has been donated to the recycling center many moons ago. I bought a new one and did not grease it as I did on my rookie mistake.

Good deal, steel is reusable!

I opted out for the tie downs because the anti- rattle , are you saying I should still put them on as well? I believe I still have them so it don't be a problem.

The rattle stop on holds it tight in the receiver hole, despite what they may say. With a single post bike rack you basically have a flag pole with weight at the top (bikes), so it can sway to-&-fro up there & add stress to the rack, hitch receiver, bumper, frame, etc. However, the straps will only take care of the L-to-R movement, so you'll need to do something with a clip to the main center rail, similar to someone's pic in an earlier post for how the AS &/or Fiamma bike rack stabilized the fore-&-aft movement. It looks like they clip to the center band below the rear window in that pic (I don't recall which post number it was in).


As for your bike racks, remember it has to be designed for a trailer. Most Bike racks will say in the manual not intended for trailers/RV.

Yes, I believe that I have the same Swagman RV/Trailer bike rack as yours, but I will need to drill the extra pin hole to keep it closer to the trailer, & may need to cut the shank for body clearance too (I have a bolt-on Curt 2" receiver for 4" square steel tube rear bumper on our Avion - old school).

(Been using the app the reply, still learning how it formats the response whether it quotes or not. How to add imojis, etc. )

Looks like you figured it out by your next post below! I can type far faster on a keyboard laptop myself.

~and~

Is my FC19 considered small and light trailer?

No, I meant tiny/small/light tent trailers, Casitas, etc. Most 14-16' & up trailers aren't small, & anything over 1500# isn't light IMHO.

Getting the sway bar is less than $100, I figured someone to drill and install for me, maybe $50 (I don't like to drill heavy especially after getting my nails done ) So dollar wise, not a big deal.

Any local AS dealer up in the SFV or LA, local trailer shop, or Camping World up by Tragic Mountain/Valencia, etc. should have them in stock (or pre-order then go in when they have it), & can install it for you.

Would it look odd to have two sway bars on a FC19?

No, why would it? - since most rigs for 16 Bambis & up have both side SC from what I've seen. I would think that they'd last longer too with the SC load split between 2 L & R - each opposing the sway in the opposite direction whether L & R & working together, since the friction material can wear out, just like brake pads.

Maybe putting four bikes will make sense for the second sway bar(i'm ready for the blow back from that statement)

When I put that second sway bar, I'm gonna find a empty straight away to test, where I won't be a weapon to anyone.

You actually need bumpy road, turns, wind & other factors to test it out. Read up on the CanAm website's "Hitch Hints" articles about how they test the rigs for sway, etc. for an idea of how to replicate it locally.

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/category/hitch-hints/

Anyone know of a test track where I can test this out?

Willow Springs, Button Willow, Auto Club Raceway in Ontario - or just some local roads or huge empty parking lot - if you set out some cones.

[cazual6]

Update: July 18, 2016

I installed the second swaybar base today for the left side (driver side). Having the son cut the controller tightener because it hits the propane tank.

I ordered two pipe hangers for the bike mount for side to side anchor point.

I don't think I will get a chance to do a test drive before my vacay (finally taking that cruise to Alaska). I will keep you posted with pictures once all the pieces are installed.

[xrvr]

The second sway control will help a lot. I would like to see a picture of your sway controllers mounted. Looks like you are doing what needs to be done. Good camping.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by cazual6

. . .
I will keep you posted with pictures once all the pieces are installed.

Hope you have a good trip. You might want to check out this new thread, about an accident with what looks like a bike rack on the back of the Airstream -- not sure.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...ec-153984.html

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by avionstream

The second sway control will help a lot. I would like to see a picture of your sway controllers mounted. Looks like you are doing what needs to be done. Good camping.

I am trying.

To recap: AS was stable with one bike on the back without a sway control.

I added back the sway bar to give my wife some comfort.

I am adding a second sway bar from the advices from this thread. I am doing other things as per recommendations.

My ultimate goal is for the four bikes in the back. But I am going to take it step by step and learn from each iteration of the attempts. One, Two, Three then Four bikes at various speeds.

When I do the attempts, I will document as much as possible to share my findings. So we all can learn together.

I'm reading about sway, and sway recovery, but those can only be learned through experience. When I experienced the sway, it was unnerving, but I was calm, collective and didn't panic.

The only unknown I can not factor in is how tight is tight on the sway bar. When I say tighter than hand tight, well that is subjective because I weigh 175lbs, relatively fit. So I don't know what that means for someone bigger or smaller / weaker or stronger than me. Can anyone give me suggestions how I would measure this? I was gonna get a torque wrench, but there is no way for me to attach a bit to it via ON/OFF handle.


See attached picture.

I've been using the ON/OFF to make it tighter. According to manual, use their default setting unless required for the LESS/MORE. This is my second swaybar, and I have never used the bottom LESS/MORE to adjust.
1. So will tighter than hand tight via ON/OFF handle a bad way of determining how tight is tight?
2. Does that mean, it doesn't matter how tight I make the ON/OFF handle?
3. If I am going to measure how tight is tight via ON/OFF, what instrument would I use?

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I've been using the ON/OFF to make it tighter. According to manual, use their default setting unless required for the LESS/MORE. This is my second swaybar, and I have never used the bottom LESS/MORE to adjust.
1. So will tighter than hand tight via ON/OFF handle a bad way of determining how tight is tight?
2. Does that mean, it doesn't matter how tight I make the ON/OFF handle?
3. If I am going to measure how tight is tight via ON/OFF, what instrument would I use?

I don't think there is an easy way of measuring this, unless you were to take the bar to a lab to see how much force it takes to move the bar at certain positions.

It definitely makes a difference as to how tight you make it. I usually have made it as tight as possible. It is basically a resistive brake. The harder it is on the more it brakes. Like your vehicle brakes.

You may want to trade in the EAZ lift sway for a Husky as it is much quieter.

In my experience I have only had sway on a couple of occasions. One after towing the same trailer thousands of miles and after 6 years. A storm came out of no where and just about flipped the entire rig. The other was last year after getting back from the east coast. In the final couple hundred of miles the sway was out of control. I could not control it above 55. Every time where the trailer was rocked up and down and side ways it started a terrible sway. Not sure what had changed (all the tanks were empty), but after this I was in to see a towing expert to resolve the issue. Don't play with this. Just because it works on a couple hundred of miles of road and it seems good does't mean it won't happen later. Just my experience. You will get yourself into a situation you can't recover from and you will regret it forever.

[cazual6]

Thanks gator. I'm stuck with the EZ lift for now. I'm doing this because I will be back heavy with the bikes. If you look in the first few posts, you will get a sense why. I may not be able do what I want, but I'm gonna try and experiment. I've done what I can physically, and now it will be time for a test drive.

But did you ever have to adjust the MORE/LESS screw?

[pteck]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I'm doing this because I will be back heavy with the bikes. If you look in the first few posts, you will get a sense why. I may not be able do what I want, but I'm gonna try and experiment. I've done what I can physically, and now it will be time for a test drive.

Cazual, great progress so far.

Just hope you understand that sway control should not be used to compensate for any inherent instability. It just does not work that way.

The goal is to design/setup for maximum native stability. The sway control is a damping device if sway were to occur.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Adding more sway control to a poorly designed system is a recipe for disaster, in my personal opinion.

For the outer limits of what happens when a large load -- well beyond the Airstream design parameters -- is added behind the rear bumper, please see this thread about a recent roll-over accident in Quebec:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...ec-153984.html

Given that the Airstream design parameters are for a Fiamma bike rack only . . .

[Alumineer]

Take your time to read this thesis before you do a bunch of experimenting.

Basically, it's all been done before and the theory is clear and well understood. The operative principles of trailer sway elimination are:
- keep your loads close to the center of the trailer
- keep your tongue weight in a reasonable range
- keep your speed down.

But, you seem to be bent on pushing the envelope on all three fronts. Good luck with that. If I was your wife I'd whack you over the head with the bicycles until you stopped.

[A W Warn]

For me, to read the through and understand all the data, provided in the testing at the web links in several posts above, is difficult to understand.

For those like me, just skip over to pages 58 and 59 to read "11.1 Practical Advice". It's easy to understand and only takes a minute or two to read.


My thoughts to cazual6:
Why risk your family. Get that hitch removed from your trailer so that you will not be tempted again.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by pteck

Cazual, great progress so far.

Just hope you understand that sway control should not be used to compensate for any inherent instability. It just does not work that way.

The goal is to design/setup for maximum native stability. The sway control is a damping device if sway were to occur.

Understood. I already know what works. I'm just trying to see what else I can do. Maybe what I want can't be done.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

For me, to read the through and understand all the data, provided in the testing at the web links in several posts above, is difficult to understand.

For those like me, just skip over to pages 58 and 59 to read "11.1 Practical Advice". It's easy to understand and only takes a minute or two to read.


My thoughts to cazual6:
Why risk your family. Get that hitch removed from your trailer so that you will not be tempted again.

When I do my test run, it'll just be me on a lonely road somewhere. I already know what works. I'm just trying to see what else will work with my setup.

The hitch works. One bike for sure with no sway control. Already done it. I'm adding more and other things as well.

Where this works or not, I'm not telling anyone to do it. I'm just sharing my findings. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do and appreciate any advice to make it as safe as possible. Telling me it can not be done because they have done it on my exact same set up is one thing. To theorize what makes sense is another. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

But I'm gonna attempt to do what I want do. I just want to hear any other tips. I added the second sway control. I'm getting anchor points for the mount side to side support. I have shortened the shank to get it as close as possible.

I am listening and very appreciative of all the advice.

I just want to do it as safely as possible.

Like I said in the end, maybe it will be just one bike even after all this effort. It will be a learning experience for me and I will share my actual results.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Alumineer

Take your time to read this thesis before you do a bunch of experimenting.

Basically, it's all been done before and the theory is clear and well understood. The operative principles of trailer sway elimination are:
- keep your loads close to the center of the trailer
- keep your tongue weight in a reasonable range
- keep your speed down.

But, you seem to be bent on pushing the envelope on all three fronts. Good luck with that. If I was your wife I'd whack you over the head with the bicycles until you stopped.

Read to the section you told me. I'll be on a cruise end of the month, I'll read the rest there. I won't be doing any road test for at least three weeks. I'm still waiting for parts I ordered from the anchor points. I Ordered six different setups to see which one works.

Thank you.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

For the outer limits of what happens when a large load -- well beyond the Airstream design parameters -- is added behind the rear bumper, please see this thread about a recent roll-over accident in Quebec:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...ec-153984.html

Given that the Airstream design parameters are for a Fiamma bike rack only . . .

I'm on it. Thanks for sticking around.