Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-27-2016, 01:06 PM   #99
Rivet Slave
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2014 27' FB International
Western WA , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,304
Blog Entries: 49
Clearly, people who have those hitches love them. Must admit, when I have an excellent hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So, I understand it.

Meanwhile, we did not want to deal with the extra weight of said fancy hitches, and have been very happy with the one our dealer sold us (Equal-i-zer). There are plenty of good anti-sway hitch brands / models out there.

To focus on the OP's problem, it seems pretty clear the sway was caused by putting excessive weight far behind the axle of their FC19. He's working his way back to eliminating this problem:
  • He's agreed that loading genny's in the front won't solve it.
  • He's agreed that he shouldn't be putting 4 bikes back there.
  • He'd like to try his rack with 2 kids' bikes while the rest are inside. (better than 4!)
  • He knows to investigate how much the kid bikes wobble when they are mounted on that rack.
  • He's considering other bike rack solutions, though he's reluctant to put bikes up on the roof (doesn't matter why, but it seems this will not work for him).
  • He's evaluating / improving his current anti-sway hitch setup.
So, overall it seems he's made quite a bit of progress. Color me hopeful.
__________________

__________________
Rocinante is our 2014 International Signature 27FB
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:10 PM   #100
Stay CazuaL
 
cazual6's Avatar
 
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 488
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Hey, for some few folks posting - we need to treat everyone with mutual respect on here.

You're expressing frustration above, but it really works better to be nice & constructive with helping other folks, than some of this slamming going on. So just take a minute, count to 100, breathe, then either not post negatively, or add something constructive for the guy (or anyone else).


OK Cazual6 -

You'll need to be some more work on this puzzle before your test run, & to check with some pro resources. Do call Andy Thomson at CanAm in Ontario Canada (EST near Toronto) & Terry Powell at Hensley in MI & also Eastern or Central time - see below.

You've got a lot of good info. above from other folks already, & I'll add a few more thoughts for you along those lines & your questions & statements above....

Re: Weight Calcs. & Wt. Scales:

Unless you empty it every time, you'll need to include some weight for your black tank, since it generally takes some time to get enough in it to flush-out properly when emptied (unless you add water pre-emptying). There are 2 schools of thought on black tanks - one empties every time before travel & adds water at the dump station/site to have enough to properly scour out the black tank, the other to leave it to fill until at a point needing emptying & will scour out the tank as is.

Either way is your choice, but be aware that the black tank at the rear of most trailers will counterbalance wt. off the tongue's HW like a see-saw, & more so on single axle trailers like yours & mine. If traveling with content, you'll need to include a wt. estimate for it's contents too.

While you can get a close estimate on the wts. with math, but you should still go & measure it on a scale with the different configurations, so you can ensure that you have the real deal for total trailer GTW & HW wts. as loaded, for each scenario you mention. CAT Truck Scales, local metal recycling places, some RV parks/service centers, etc. have vehicle scales; & even Camping World up by you may also have the small portable scales by wheel & hitch to get you the final & actual wts.

For initial estimate, you can weigh most of the individual items in your TV & trailer, rack, the welded on hitch receiver (or one like it), rack, kitchen & other gear in your trailer, etc. to get pretty close, plus the actual tank(s) capacities x liquid wt. for each (don't forget the LP), all on a common bathroom scale & add them all up.

However, it's hard to guess at the wt. of installed options in your AS which they didn't include in their factory dry/empty wt. - ergo the need to take her to a scale for actual real world wts.

Also with the TV load, remember that the mfgrs. are supposed to figure curb wt. including all fluids full (including gas) & 150# for the driver - so only add any "overage" for you as driver + the passengers & luggage/etc. (you may want to use the future teen or adult wts. for your kids now, since they have a nasty habit of growing up). Also remember to use the correct curb wt. for the Traverse as equipped for your vehicle, since it varies, & engine choice makes a big cut into it, so your V6 will be at the higher end, with a lower useful load or capacity.

You also have to deduct the trailer's HW from that useful load, as well as any cargo in the rear, & also check that the GAW on the rear axle isn't overloaded by stuff in the rear cargo area + HW (a properly set-up WD hitch should put 50% to the F & R axles, so you can use half HW until you weigh it for exact nos.).

I'm sure that we were "grossed-up" for all the years we'd loaded 2 kids + 2 adults + water/food/luggage in our `88 VW Westy van since new, with it's 4 wheezing squirrels for power!

HWs you can do in your driveway if flat, or on a flat surface near home, with a rigged up scale or a Sherline hitch scale for about $120 IIRC, & I found it worth my while. You can then easily play with the HW & various loading & carrying scenarios.

You don't say what is the HW is for the Traverse - no WD & with WD (should be a sticker on the receiver for a factory hitch). It sounds like the GTWR for your AS is around 5000# - so 10-15% should be 500-750# & anything more can be counter-balanced with stuff at the rear (inside or on the rack - see below). I'm guess the TV HWR is in the 520-780# range to fit the 10-15% norms - but not necessarily so.

This is where you really need a HW scale (or rig up something with a 500-750-1000# weighing capacity) to weigh it, because you may not be less than the 10% as everybody is thinking here. Ergo, you may not need the generators to counter-balance anything on the rear rack, & they won't do anything to effectively counter the added pendulum action adding to sway of the 4 bikes on a rack sticking out a few feet behind the AS body & frame & up to the axle. See more on that below.

Re: Racks, Bikes & Stuff:

Note that the 4 bikes & rack on the AS bumper may also be a warranty negating problem, &/or cause structural &/or skin damage issues for your AS due to the added load if not designed for such (which your owner's manual seems to imply) - in addition to inducing sway via it's extended pendulum action.

Yes to your other question - you're also missing that it's not just the weight to counter - but the effects of hanging more weight like a lever arm or pendulum far behind your AS's axle, to magnify & over-react to any of the usual sway inducing events such as cross-winds, passing 18-wheelers & large vehicles (buses, RVs, etc.), uneven pavement & potholes, etc. We use levers to enhance our lifting power, so the rack/bikes will multiply their wt. by the length of the lever arm or pivot arm to the trailer's axle (or rearmost one in multi-axle trailers), just like you trying to lever out a rock or tree stump - thereby increasing the propensity to sway the trailer more than without it on there.

And even with the friction or pnuematic type anti-sway devices (like shock absorbers) on both sides of your WD hitch - once it surpasses the limits of the friction or fluid/piston - then you're going to have sway again (it can be exceeded in some situations with or without the bikes/rack).

Whereas, the Hensley & ProPride PPP type hitches cannot be exceeded, since they never let the trailer pivot at the ball/hitch-head while pulling, & only the TV can start the turn/pivot at the head.

So do take Andy's experience with numerous Traverse owners towing to heart, & use the rook rack on the TV, or an alternative bike carrying set-up, or maybe a better WD/AS hitch (see below).

You may want to check with him about the use of a rack for bike at the front on the trailer's A-frame, so long as that won't put too much HW on the TV. However, you don't want to lose any "see through" visibility you now have with your AS (if any - I don't have much room on my shorter vintage A-frame & I don't want to lose the see through, so it may not work for mine either.)

It's worth a call to him, but you may want to add Canada calling to your cell plan for a month to do so, since he's in Ontario Canada near Toronto. Then you can ask questions ad naseum, in order to get past your stubborn streak. Just remember that old saying about: "...the best laid plans of mice & men...."!!

Based on Andy T's comments to you above - as well as my trying to work out a rear rack for 2 Beach Cruiser bikes for us + trailer &/or TV full size spare on the back of our 1960 Avion, which BTW has a stronger & heavier frame than your newer AS (most top end silver twinkie vintage kin & AS's also had heavier/stronger frames too) - even I'm now reconsidering whether & how I may want to do so - vs. his roof rack suggestion at our ultimate mid-sized SUV TV (for the trucks & SUVs which we've rented so far I just load in the bed/cargo area).

However, keep in mind that I have a far better WD/AS hitch in my Hensley Cub - than your Equalizer, so I can stretch things more than you can - true at probably 150% or more cost, but with many added benefits. I got ours because I knew that we'd be towing with a smaller, light, shorter overall & shorter wheelbase mid-size SUV TV - so I went to the best for eliminating sway. more on that below.

However, both you & I could possibly use a rear cargo rack or box instead, to load up to 200# +/- of other cargo on the trailer's rear bumper, which is at a lower level than the tall bikes - IF the AS manual says you can do so. However, you'll see that when loaded, even those hitch receiver racks will need to be stabilized from rocking L to R on the road.

I think if you have somebody follow behind your rig with 2 or 4 bikes on the back of the AS, that you will see movement on the bikes/bike rack at the top - which is apparently what your AS owner's manual warns against - since THOR Industries has tried to cut everything on the new AS's to a minimum, including frame members.

There were also some suggestions for the AS bike rack for 2 bikes, which if workable for 2 adult bikes - per your Airstream owner's manual & local dealer check, & per your upcoming call to Andy T. & Terry Powell (see below) - then you can put yours/wife's on it, the kids inside - where their bikes will eventually grow to adult bikes! The other suggested Fiamma may also work, &/or any other recco from Andy T.

So it's going to be a matter of puzzling around where & how you load all the shittage which we bring camping with our families!

Re: Hitches & WD + Anti-Sway:

Yes, I would say that you need the anti-sway units on BOTH L & R sides for your set-up, but you may still have sway with the 4 bikes on the rack in the back of the AS due to the pendulum action of same. You can confirm that with Andy T at CanAm when you call him (or email, but that may be laborious to go back & forth with many Q&A's).

But there are also other better anti-sway solutions than the friction based ones which IIRC are those on your Equalizer & others, with the cam type being next best, & the PPP Hensley & ProPride being the best - essentially or completely eliminating the sway. The WD on them all (or most) is the same - a pair of spring bars to torsion down & "push" about 1/2 the HW from the rear axle to the front axle of the TV - with some differences in the types of bars. As with anything, you get what you pay for, & you pay more for a good "standard" type of WD/AS hitch like Equalizer, Eazlift, Blue Ox, etc., than a basic one, & more than those for a top of the line PPP type Hensley or ProPride.

I don't know what all that add-on equipment for 2 AS-units + the Equalizer comes up to for total cost, but with you're "extra duty" & extra cargo that you want to carry with your Traverse - you may actually be better off with a Hensley Cub. Your AS at about 5000# GTWR & Traverse at 5200# GTR + shorter overall length & wheelbase, & lighter TV wt. is within the 6000" GTWR & 600# HW ratings of, & may just justify the added expense of a Cub.

They start new at $1300-ish for the type with chains or $1500-1800 for the one with the screw jacks to adjust the spring bars (& latter is IMHO well worth the $'s for the ease of use & unlimited adjustment of a turn of the nut). Hensley also sells reconditioned used ones with a lifetime guaranty for less than those amounts. (you'll also want a back-up camera to aid solo hitching, if not on your Traverse). While the ProPride is a similar design & more capacity (10k-14k lbs. IIRC), it's also up in the mid-$2000 range - so the Cub tends to be less costly for us with the smaller <6000# trailers.

One way to justify the price - in addition to the added utility & flexibility etc. - is to say what is the extra "insurance" worth for a very expensive newish AS trailer? Is $1000+/- to $1800+/- worth no sway worries & possibly flipping & totaling your $30,000 - 50,000 2014 AS (I'm guessing - you use your real $s)? And that is with a lifetime warranty, with little or no future maintenance costs if you do it yourself! Ergo, a one time cost.

How much do you pay annually or every 6 months to AAA, Flo at Progressive, Farmers, State Farm, the gekko, or whomever for the trailer's insurance at the depreciating actual cash value?? I'd guess at least $100-200+ added to your policy per year, every year, for 5-10 years of ownership! Ever notice that they don't reduce the rate as the value of the aging trailer goes down, & thereby lessens their risk!? So that's at least $500-1000+ for 5 years, $1000-2000+ for 10!

Ours with AAA is $187 a year for an $18000 Agreed Value (actually ACV cap on their liability) - & note that the restored vintage trailers like ours go up in value over time, rather than depreciating like new & late mode trailers do - so I'll have to increase it's Agreed Value every few years with resultant rising rates, & I'll have to fight them or any other insurer to validate the actual value at loss in order to collect enough to find a replacement trailer. Folks with new/late model trailers are basically screwed in that regard cuz they can low ball ACV, & you won't get enough to replace the totaled trailer.

For me, paying 8% ONE TIME on an $18,000 & appreciating collectable restored vintage trailer - for the "insurance" that I won't have to ever make a claim & fight the insurer to get replacement value, due to an accident from sway, was well worth it. Perhaps one day the trailer insurers will give a rate discount for our fancy hitches, but I'm not holding my breath!

You can decide this financial math for your situation, if the other factors with your rig & bike/other hauling needs work better with a Cub.

So look at the Hensley Cub info, then call & ask for Terry Powell to ask your questions about your rig, & want you want to do with your bikes or other cargo on the rear of the AS. I think that he may say that the sway is not an issue with your rig & a Cub., but then your other issue may be the need to put wt. to the rear to counter balance the HW to your Traverse's max. HW with WD (although it could still be an issue with your AS frame/body & warranty with them, even without it inducing sway) - all of which you should also discuss with Terry.

Hensley Cub Info & contact:
https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/
https://hensleymfg.com/product/hensl...trailer-hitch/
https://hensleymfg.com/contact-us/

Then call Andy T. at CanAm about those options of Cub vs. Equalizer, & all of the other hitch reinforcement, bike racks/4-bikes, etc. issues. I know that Andy regularly uses the Equalizer/similar WD/AS units on smaller trailers for smaller TVs, but he also uses the Hensley & ProPride, which may give you more flexibility to hang onto your initial plan (if it doesn't cause AS structural &/or warranty problems for you with 4 bikes out back). Also read his info & Hitch Hints articles at the links below....

http://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/category/hitch-hints/

(CanAm's contact 855 number & email are at the top of each page)

That's already enough TMI rambling from me, you just need to do some more studying on this, before you get to a workable solution to try out on a test drive.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Thank you for caring so much. I love you too
__________________

__________________
"No job is so simple that it cannot be done wrong."
"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege."
"Either I will find a way, or I will make one."
"Sweat is your fat crying"
WBCCI 9164
cazual6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:10 PM   #101
Stay CazuaL
 
cazual6's Avatar
 
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 488
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Moreover the trailer in question is nineteen feet long with one axle, and could be towed safely without much if any WD or SC.

The sway problem here is very simple to fix IMO.

I thought you were done with me? You do love me!!!
__________________
"No job is so simple that it cannot be done wrong."
"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege."
"Either I will find a way, or I will make one."
"Sweat is your fat crying"
WBCCI 9164
cazual6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:16 PM   #102
Stay CazuaL
 
cazual6's Avatar
 
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 488
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Clearly, people who have those hitches love them. Must admit, when I have an excellent hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So, I understand it.

Meanwhile, we did not want to deal with the extra weight of said fancy hitches, and have been very happy with the one our dealer sold us (Equal-i-zer). There are plenty of good anti-sway hitch brands / models out there.

To focus on the OP's problem, it seems pretty clear the sway was caused by putting excessive weight far behind the axle of their FC19. He's working his way back to eliminating this problem:
  • He's agreed that loading genny's in the front won't solve it.
  • He's agreed that he shouldn't be putting 4 bikes back there.
  • He'd like to try his rack with 2 kids' bikes while the rest are inside. (better than 4!)
  • He knows to investigate how much the kid bikes wobble when they are mounted on that rack.
  • He's considering other bike rack solutions, though he's reluctant to put bikes up on the roof (doesn't matter why, but it seems this will not work for him).
  • He's evaluating / improving his current anti-sway hitch setup.
So, overall it seems he's made quite a bit of progress. Color me hopeful.
I appreciate you pointing that out. I am stubborn, but I can clearly see, I am well out-knowledged here. At the most, two kids bike in the back, the minute I feel a sway, bikes will go inside the AS. The bike mount will serve as my flag pole for the most part and a hanger for while on site.

FYI: Rook rack won't work, I can't get the wife to carry the bikes that high

(I don't know why the pictures won't orient right in this forums)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160616_200735.jpg
Views:	222
Size:	302.1 KB
ID:	265385   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160616_201046.jpg
Views:	231
Size:	218.3 KB
ID:	265386  

__________________
"No job is so simple that it cannot be done wrong."
"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege."
"Either I will find a way, or I will make one."
"Sweat is your fat crying"
WBCCI 9164
cazual6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:56 PM   #103
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
I appreciate you pointing that out. I am stubborn, but I can clearly see, I am well out-knowledged here. At the most, two kids bike in the back, the minute I feel a sway, bikes will go inside the AS. The bike mount will serve as my flag pole for the most part and a hanger for while on site.



FYI: Rook rack won't work, I can't get the wife to carry the bikes that high


Hi again. A few final thoughts from me - and please accept this with all the love that's behind it.

You acknowledge being stubborn AND well "out-knowledged". But you're STILL talking about going ahead with a plan that those you understand to have more knowledge than you on the subject have repeatedly told you not to do. That's just plain irresponsible.

I can only conclude you are more stubborn than appreciative of others' knowledge and experience.

If you FEEL the sway, you're already at a significant disadvantage! There is plenty of advice in the forums about emergency maneuvers should you need them, but will you pay any more attention to that advice than you have so far here? If history is any indicator of future behavior, I confess I don't have high hopes that when (not if) you feel the sway you'll be able to safely react and adjust.

Last, regarding your wife's preference for not putting the bikes on a roof rack, is she aware of the discussion in this thread? You've now had hundreds of reasons why you absolutely should not be using a rear hitch on your Airstream, especially for bouncing bikes. What reason do you have, other than your wife's preference, to not pursue a safer solution?

I literally can add nothing more to this.
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 08:58 PM   #104
Rivet Slave
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2014 27' FB International
Western WA , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,304
Blog Entries: 49
Yeah, I'm kinda done here as well. Nice flagpole, though! Good luck to you.
__________________
Rocinante is our 2014 International Signature 27FB
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 10:57 PM   #105
Stay CazuaL
 
cazual6's Avatar
 
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 488
Images: 1
Ok. One bike. On my trip back from Big Bear, I only had the smallest bike in the back. That was with no gens, no sway bar, just what I had when the problem started. I can say, with certainty, this was ok. Regardless your concerns, this is something I have already done and did so. I drove slow on the way down. Posted a pic when I made it down safely. Started at 45mph, 50, 55, 60 and maxed at 65mph with no sway at all. I had uneven roads, trucks passing me by, all the ingredients you all have mentioned that I should have been concerned about. I played it safe and stayed at 57mph all the way home. The theories presented here and concerns are all VALID. But I did field test. I did the one bike, and being overly concerned is safe is a good practice. I can tell you one bike is OK.

I don't want you to think I am careless. I didn't take a chance on the way back. I listened to all the advice and didn't risk anything.

I appreciate all the brutal advise and concerns. I really do. No offense was taken. As they say, if you can't take, then don't ask for it. I certainly asked for it.

Thank you again for all the good insights.
__________________
"No job is so simple that it cannot be done wrong."
"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege."
"Either I will find a way, or I will make one."
"Sweat is your fat crying"
WBCCI 9164
cazual6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 11:08 AM   #106
3 Rivet Member
 
Northville , Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
I will definitely read up on it. Thank you.

Update ( a few minutes later): Holy crap!! Talking about scientific explanation!!! Makes me need to read up on my formulas again. This is way over the top!!
Yup, enough science to give most people a migraine, I went thru it over several days and a few asprin!

Just a FWIW, and this may start a flame war over hitches, one comment that stuck out during my slog thru was that ALL hitches that allow the trailer to cause a pivot on the ball are susceptible to sway. My understanding of the comment is that only if you can eliminate that possibility are you completely safe. Again my understanding, the only hitches in the US/Can that meet this requirement are the Hensley design units. Most anti-sway hitches are some form of friction control and the Blue Ox is a spring that work to diminish sway forces that occur at the pivot point (tow ball). Hensley hitches use physics to virtually move the pivot point up near the TV rear axle. It would be interesting to see a paper like this one documenting the forces when using a Hensley style hitch.
__________________
SailorSam205 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 06:31 PM   #107
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,310
Images: 1
Out of control sway

There's no reason not to use a better hitch. Best hitch. The only ones who knock them haven't a clue of what's best.

Start from scratch, OP. Lose the present bike rack and find a better solution.

If this tail chasing thread causes you to reconsider tires, or brakes, or electronic antisway devices, better brake controllers, etc, it's all to the good.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 01:10 PM   #108
Airstream Obsessed
 
AVDESIGN's Avatar
 
2006 30' Classic
1989 29' Excella
Sandy , Utah
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
Images: 2
Thumbs up Kudos to you Cazual6!!

I'm not sure I have ever seen a topic get people more emotional than "carrying bikes on the back of an Airstream..."

I admire you CAZUAL6 for hanging in there for so long with the "Naysayers", the "Can't-be-Done'ers" and even the "You're an idiot for even trying'ers"...

Please posters, don't take me wrong; other opinions, constructive criticism and multiple perspectives are very important in solving any problem. However, "It can't be done!" is often the easy way out of a problem. Stick with it Cazual6! Listen to all points of view, keep your original goal in mind and then FIND A WAY!

I wonder what kind of comments would have been posted to the Wright Bro's had there been an "AirForum" like this in their day? Maybe... "The law of gravity won't allow that thing to leave the ground...", "You're going to kill someone if you don't listen to reason...", "Listen to the majority of the people telling you it won't work..." and so on.

In one post I remember reading someone saying "since the bikes are located 10 "feet" behind the axel they are 10 times heavier...". At first, this made some sense to me since I am a pilot and have to consider weight and balance and location of weight. But in this case I started thinking; good thing they didn't measure the distance in "inches", the bikes would have been 120 times heavier. The law of physics MUST not be ignored, but they also must be understood, examined and applied correctly. Remember Newton's 3rd law; "for every action there is an equal and opposing action", this can be very helpful (i.e. Weight Distributing Hitches--they don't reduce the actual tongue weight but they do utilize other forces to transfer the point of those forces to negate rear-end drag and other problems). Through the use of physics and engineering you will find solutions to your problem. Keep it up!

I was dealing with the same problem (or goal), that is, to safely carry bikes on the back of my Airstream...
I read posts, talked to engineers, regurgitated physics lessons from college and eventually came up with a viable solution to carry bikes on my 30' Classic. I addressed all the issues and found a solution that works VERY well for me--
My goal:
-bikes on the back,
-compensate for decreased tongue weight and change in center of gravity,
-access to trunk and pull-out drawer,
-weight of bikes distributed safely between frame and monocoque shell
-and last but not least aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

I was told, "don't waste your time, go with the Airstream approved Fiamma". For me, the Fiamma bike rack wasn't a good solution. It still puts all the weight on the frame (upper supports don't carry any weight, only there for stability) and it inhibited access to the rear trunk. (See pics) After hours/days/weeks of analysis, I came up with a solution that works for me.

Cazual6, I don't offer my solution to say this is how you should do it, only to say that there is a solution for you if you keep at it. My point again is this--Where there's a will there is a way, don't give up!

I'm sure some will inquire how I did it... I will be providing a lengthy explanation soon with pics but in the meantime I offer these pictures:











And why I didn't go with the Fiamma...

Not strong enough....


Oops!...



Limited access to rear trunk and weight directly on bumper/frame....




Thanks AirstreamForums for being such a great source of information and entertainment!
Happy Airstreaming to all!!!
__________________
AVDESIGN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 01:35 PM   #109
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,764
Images: 12
Those that may have read some of my posts will probably agree my approach is closer to the Wright brothers than the Nay Sayers when it comes to bikes on the back of an Airstream I was carrying bikes on the back of my trailer several years before Airstream. who had long said it could not be done, finally offered a carrier.

While weight on the rear has a calculable effect on the overall system the problem here was is a poorly installed and misused WD system.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bike.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	144.7 KB
ID:	265517  
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 02:24 PM   #110
Rivet Master

 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,858
AVDESIGN,

Hopefully you appreciate that there are orders of magnitude between:

-- your well thought out bike rack, on the back of a 29' or 30' trailer, with multiple points of support/bracing; and

-- a rack for 4 bikes hanging way off the rear of a 19' single-axle trailer, from a single point without any further bracing/support.

Issues of "sway control" for the two set ups are quite dissimilar IMO, to say the least.

Moreover, no matter how well designed a bike rack is, it may still violate the Airstream warranty on a new trailer -- another matter, but worth considering.

Also, it seems a bit disingenuous to label some here as Naysayers to the general concept of a bike rack, when most were simply trying to keep cazual6's specific mobile weapons system off the road as a hazard.
__________________
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 02:25 PM   #111
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Note that the bikes on the broken Fiamma rack above are electric bikes, exceeding the 70 lb weight limit specified for the rack.

Note that although the upper brackets carry no weight, the hold the rack from downward rotation toward the rear, and large oscillations on uneven roadways, which is their purpose. That means less dynamic force working on the frame and bike rack, as well as a more stable Airstream.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 05:29 PM   #112
Airstream Obsessed
 
AVDESIGN's Avatar
 
2006 30' Classic
1989 29' Excella
Sandy , Utah
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
Images: 2
No offense to ANYONE!

OTRA15 -- I totally see the huge differences between my 30' classic and the OPer's trailer... and in no way am I saying that since my solution works for me the same solution will work for him too. He needs to address MANY issues (in my opinion) before he arrives at a workable solution... Such as: distribute weight of rack correctly between body and frame, stabilize bike rack to multiple points, possibly reposition weight inside trailer to the front to compensate for added weight on rear, etc, etc, etc. All of our rigs are an added danger to the roads but doesn't mean we should all just stay home.

I remember one trip in our Airstream... I got on the freeway, accelerated to 65, touched the brakes when someone cut in front of me and the trailer began to sway like crazy! What was different from this trip vs. all the other stable trips I had made before?? Pulling over and examining the inside of the trailer I found that my wife and daughter had moved everything to the back bedroom (cases of water, our personal duffle bags of clothes, lounge chairs and folding camp table). They thought it would be nice to have the kitchen and living area free of any cargo for when we stopped for breaks. These relatively light items moved to the rear had a huge effect on the overall stability of the trailer.

My point (without any offense intended towards anyone) is: Don't stop trying to find a workable solution to a goal (carrying bikes on the rear without sway) just because some say it can't be done.

HowieE -- I agree, WD and stability of bikes and rack are the main issue here. I applaud you for being an innovator.

dkottum -- Regarding electric bikes exceeding weight limit, TRUE! But the Fiamma bike rack (like the OP's bike rack) places all the weight on the frame which according to many contributes to frame-body separation. Weight needs to be distributed between frame and body... IMO. Also, Fiamma solution greatly obstructs access to rear compartments in my case. However, I know the Fiamma rack has made many AS owners very happy.

I actually see his stubbornness to find a solution within his working parameters admirable. He brought his problem to this forum to be analyzed and scrutinized by many different minds. He is trying different options (some by trial and error) eventually with persistence he can arrive at a workable solution to his goal--again, in my (not so humble) opinion.
__________________

__________________
AVDESIGN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which is better? A sway control hitch or a vehicle with sway-control? Lucky Strike Tow Vehicles 27 08-13-2015 05:34 AM
Does Dodge RAM's Integrated Sway Control Work Well With Friction Sway Control? interstateflyer Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 9 08-13-2014 10:05 AM
Sway bars and sway control phibbs Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 1 09-03-2012 05:48 AM
L-pins are grinding against the sway bars on my Equal-i-zer sway control hitch Simoneau Hitches, Couplers & Balls 9 06-20-2009 08:28 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.