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Old 06-23-2016, 06:34 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by SpletKay06 View Post
The hensley weights 10% on its own so you dont have to worry about tongue weight.
The Hensley/ProPride effectively extends the tongue length, creating a longer distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. I believe the effect of the longer level to the truck's receiver nearly negates the weight of the Hensley/ProPride. Would be interesting to do an actual test.
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Old 06-23-2016, 06:48 AM   #58
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So is the Hensley being used to compensate for an unsafe trailer, too light of tongue weight.? If I have a trailer with less than ten percent tongue weight and it sways when using a regular WD hitch, I can buy a Hensley to make up for an unsafe trailer.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:23 AM   #59
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Don't forget, a Hensley or ProPride hitch adds considerable weight right at the end of the tongue as well as extending the length of the tongue. Essentially all weight-distributing hitches also add weight, but perhaps not as much as a Hensley or ProPride.

It's worth mentioning that European trailers have relatively longer tongues and much less weight on the hitch (to facilitate towing with smaller, lighter vehicles). In general in Europe, there are no weight-distributing hitches and sway-control systems are mostly based on friction on the hitch ball. The hitch balls are not separate and can't rotate (as might happen with the thread and nut attachment of North American hitch balls).

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Old 06-23-2016, 12:32 PM   #60
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One of the members weighed the trailer tongue before and after installing a PPP hitch and the tongue weight increased by 200#. I'll try to find a link to it.
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Old 06-23-2016, 04:14 PM   #61
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Well, the hitch adds weight to the nose, you can compensate for that by adjusting where stuff is stored in the trailer. What is interesting to me is that for Gator, the Hensley style hitches will control a trailer that is at or slightly below 10% on tongue weight. So if your TV is close to it's cargo weight and you are 12.5% or more, you can "buy back" cargo weight in the TV by adjusting the balance setup or adding stuff to the back of the TT. Of course this is all predicated on the TT being under it's GVWR and being under the GCVWR or the TV.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:55 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by SpletKay06 View Post
The hensley weights 10% on its own so you dont have to worry about tongue weight.
No, not true. All the WD does is to distribute the HW/TW evenly between the TV's front & rear axles, by having the torsion springs "push" on the hitch receiver in order to push the rear-end of the TV up & thereby the front end down. Ergo, why CanAm adds that steel tube link forward to the rear frame near the rear axle or rear axle sub-frame, from the hitch receiver, in order to aid in that transfer by lengthening the "lever arm" effect & spread it out forward of the hitch itself.

The HW/TW is a function of the amount of wt. carried forward of the axle(s) based on the wt. balance, so how the trailer is loaded can push more or less wt. to the HW/TW. Additionally, the hitch's wt., LP tack+LP, & anything else up forward of the trailer adds to it, while stuff at the rear of the trailer balances it out - much as pilots do to get their aircraft weight & balance even & correct to fly safely.

Single axle trailers will be more sensitive to wt. balance fore & aft, than tandem/triple/quad axle trailers, because it's one pivot point at the trailer wheel, rather than spread over 2-3 wheels.

It needs to be weighed at the coupler or HH/PP head to determine what it actually is.

HW is typically recco'd to be 10-15% of your trailer's total gross wt. for safe towing, control & limiting trailer sway. And it is typically more than what the trailer mfgrs. put in their specs for a dry & unloaded trailer - usually without options.

For example, our `60 Avion T20 (1961 MY) is listed as 2680 lbs. total with 285 HW - but as currently set-up with full tanks & packed to go, using my Sherline HW scale it is actually 542 lbs. - including the 160# which the Hensley Cub adds. I can affect it by loading something heavy at the rear of the trailer of course, such as putting our bikes & trailer spare on a rear bumper rack with a bolt on receiver (combined wt.).

IIRC - the Hensley Cub weighs 160 lbs., the H. Arrow weighs 180#, & someone with a ProPride can add it's wt. here, & ditto for the other WD hitches being discussed.

Also, I stand corrected on the Hensley Arrow - if goes up to 14,000# & 1400# HW. Info is here for anyone interested in HC/HA:

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

https://hensleymfg.com/faq/hensley-arrow/ (also explains WD)

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:06 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by cazual6 View Post
I appreciate all the insights. I thank you all again for all your input.

I am now taking donations for a 2017 Escalade ESV Platinum with all the bells and whistles :-)
Well, now we know that you have expensive tastes!

PS - If you wait to pick up a demo after a year or an off-lease/trade-in after 2-3 with low miles & well cared for, & with the Caddy CPO, then you can probably get a great one for 20-50% less than when new!

I forgot to mention that when we 1st got the Avion in 2012, I towed it from Albuquerque to SoCal 800+/- mi. with a 2013 Ford F150 that had the built-in anti-sway, which worked okay with the Avion on a "bare ball" - since WD wasn't needed much with that big truck & a 2700-3000 lb. trailer.

However, when we first tried a mid-size SUV rental of the former truck-based 2013 MY Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 with its tow option, & using just a "bare ball" hook-up (i.e.: no WD/AS hitch), we had the same type of bare-knuckle E-ticket drive up to Pismo & back - which is less curvey & lesser grades than you to Big Bear - & had to stick to 50-55 max., & less with winds or an 18 wheeler whizzing by. So we got the Hensley Cub before the next outing & problem solved.

Your situation with the bent hitch & broken anti-sway components was essentially the same situation, as my "bare ball" experience.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:41 AM   #64
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The scale position on the length of the trailer tongue and hitch changes the weight reading on the tongue weight scale. Here's an example by one of our members, 200 lbs difference from tongue jack post to ProPride stinger at the receiver position.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...on-102151.html

For that reason I take tongue weight reports with a grain of salt, they are inconsistent. More importantly, what I need to know is the amount of weight the loaded Airstream adds to our truck when we are hooked up and weight distribution set.

We can only learn that by weighing the truck without the Airstream, and then again with the Airstream hitched and w.d. set. On our first trip with our new truck, our loaded Airstream (835 lbs factory spec hitch weight empty) and ProProde hitch (180 lbs) added 840 lbs to our truck.
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:52 AM   #65
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So is the Hensley being used to compensate for an unsafe trailer, too light of tongue weight.? If I have a trailer with less than ten percent tongue weight and it sways when using a regular WD hitch, I can buy a Hensley to make up for an unsafe trailer.
I don't think that's a good reason to use a Hensley style hitch.

However any bumper-pull trailer will reach a point if enough outside forces are present, such as gusting side wind, traveling downhill, to much speed, semi bow wave, where there will be a tendency to move out of alignment with the tow vehicle. That is the beginning of an oscillating sway condition if the forces continue or the trailer is unstable.

The Hensley design will prevent that initial tendency for the trailer to move out of alignment with the tow vehicle. Also, any sway tendency is stopped at the tow vehicles rear axle, it is not leveraged forward to the steering axle.

That's a good reason to use the Hensley design.
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Old 06-24-2016, 12:45 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
No, not true. All the WD does is to distribute the HW/TW evenly between the TV's front & rear axles, by having the torsion springs "push" on the hitch receiver in order to push the rear-end of the TV up & thereby the front end down. Ergo, why CanAm adds that steel tube link forward to the rear frame near the rear axle or rear axle sub-frame, from the hitch receiver, in order to aid in that transfer by lengthening the "lever arm" effect & spread it out forward of the hitch itself.

The HW/TW is a function of the amount of wt. carried forward of the axle(s) based on the wt. balance, so how the trailer is loaded can push more or less wt. to the HW/TW. Additionally, the hitch's wt., LP tack+LP, & anything else up forward of the trailer adds to it, while stuff at the rear of the trailer balances it out - much as pilots do to get their aircraft weight & balance even & correct to fly safely.

Single axle trailers will be more sensitive to wt. balance fore & aft, than tandem/triple/quad axle trailers, because it's one pivot point at the trailer wheel, rather than spread over 2-3 wheels.

It needs to be weighed at the coupler or HH/PP head to determine what it actually is.

HW is typically recco'd to be 10-15% of your trailer's total gross wt. for safe towing, control & limiting trailer sway. And it is typically more than what the trailer mfgrs. put in their specs for a dry & unloaded trailer - usually without options.

For example, our `60 Avion T20 (1961 MY) is listed as 2680 lbs. total with 285 HW - but as currently set-up with full tanks & packed to go, using my Sherline HW scale it is actually 542 lbs. - including the 160# which the Hensley Cub adds. I can affect it by loading something heavy at the rear of the trailer of course, such as putting our bikes & trailer spare on a rear bumper rack with a bolt on receiver (combined wt.).

IIRC - the Hensley Cub weighs 160 lbs., the H. Arrow weighs 180#, & someone with a ProPride can add it's wt. here, & ditto for the other WD hitches being discussed.

Also, I stand corrected on the Hensley Arrow - if goes up to 14,000# & 1400# HW. Info is here for anyone interested in HC/HA:

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

https://hensleymfg.com/faq/hensley-arrow/ (also explains WD)

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:07 PM   #67
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Sounds like a lot of great advice. Simply stated do not overload the trailer. Make sure you keep a majority of the weight forward of the axle. Keep tire pressures at recommended levels. As far as a tow vehicle is concerned, it is far better to have a 3/4 ton pickup that is rated to haul 1.5 times the weight your hauling than a lighter vehicle that is not capable of safety pulling the load.
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:35 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Well, now we know that you have expensive tastes!

PS - If you wait to pick up a demo after a year or an off-lease/trade-in after 2-3 with low miles & well cared for, & with the Caddy CPO, then you can probably get a great one for 20-50% less than when new!

I forgot to mention that when we 1st got the Avion in 2012, I towed it from Albuquerque to SoCal 800+/- mi. with a 2013 Ford F150 that had the built-in anti-sway, which worked okay with the Avion on a "bare ball" - since WD wasn't needed much with that big truck & a 2700-3000 lb. trailer.

However, when we first tried a mid-size SUV rental of the former truck-based 2013 MY Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 with its tow option, & using just a "bare ball" hook-up (i.e.: no WD/AS hitch), we had the same type of bare-knuckle E-ticket drive up to Pismo & back - which is less curvey & lesser grades than you to Big Bear - & had to stick to 50-55 max., & less with winds or an 18 wheeler whizzing by. So we got the Hensley Cub before the next outing & problem solved.

Your situation with the bent hitch & broken anti-sway components was essentially the same situation, as my "bare ball" experience.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
I had my bent hitch fixed. I am ordering the replacement anti-sway bar, should be here well before my next trip. I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me.

I will bring both gens and keep it in the TV just in case the sway bar is not enough. I will put them in the front dinette if I need to and see what happens again.

I am aware of all the weight issues from prior post on this thread.

Renting a TV just to go to BigBear again doesn't make sense financially. I think we will end up renting a hotel room instead. BigBear in the summer is a lot nicer than I expected.
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Old 06-25-2016, 01:57 AM   #69
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You are ASKING for trouble.

That is TOO MUCH of a pendulum on the back of the trailer. TOO MUCH.

You HAVE to secure the bikes so they don't bounce. There has to be support cabling of some sort from the top of the bikes to the midband of the trailer for support. Strap them so they can NOT move or bounce whatsoever. The bike rack's apparatus is not enough. There WILL still be bouncing. You might think it's not a lot. But it is. You have to realize the lever action involved. You're not realizing the amount of force that is being generated by that much weight bouncing on the back of the trailer even when it bounces a tiny amount. Four bikes and the weight of the hitch and bike rack is a whole helluva fruckuva lot.

Sure, you can put the generators in the front of the trailer to try to counteract it, but that weight is static while the bikes' weight is dynamic.

And, you have waaaaaay too little power in your tow vehicle to do this safely. Straight lines on a flat highway and you're probably fine. A little hill and a headwind and you're dead in the water, overheating and killing your tranny. A few side gusts and that back end starts swinging...that little anti-sway device ain't gonna stop it.

TWO bikes, as long as they are secured at the top to the midline of the trailer so they can NOT bounce or create a momentum I can see as possibly doable. FOUR(!!!) bikes and you're just ASKING for it.

And that's NOT fair to others on the road.
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Old 06-25-2016, 03:38 AM   #70
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3. My Traverse does have the tow package. I knew one day I would be towing something, I never dreamed it would be an AS (thank you wife).

4. The only way I can make my bike work in the back is to have have the gens as counter weight. But the wife says no regardless, so I guess Bikes will be inside the AS.

5. I am at the border line of my weight limit on the AS and my TV tow capacity.

10. Finally, I thank you for all the love and support through this forum.
Your rig looks great!
We are towing a larger trailer with a lighter TV and with the Reese dual cam it tows great. The Can Am set up and adjustments really helps with no guess work on our part. Our bikes (two) always travel inside the trailer secured over the axles as in that location it maintains proper balance.
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