Out of control sway

[SailorSam205]

Well, the hitch adds weight to the nose, you can compensate for that by adjusting where stuff is stored in the trailer. What is interesting to me is that for Gator, the Hensley style hitches will control a trailer that is at or slightly below 10% on tongue weight. So if your TV is close to it's cargo weight and you are 12.5% or more, you can "buy back" cargo weight in the TV by adjusting the balance setup or adding stuff to the back of the TT. Of course this is all predicated on the TT being under it's GVWR and being under the GCVWR or the TV.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SpletKay06

The hensley weights 10% on its own so you dont have to worry about tongue weight.

No, not true. All the WD does is to distribute the HW/TW evenly between the TV's front & rear axles, by having the torsion springs "push" on the hitch receiver in order to push the rear-end of the TV up & thereby the front end down. Ergo, why CanAm adds that steel tube link forward to the rear frame near the rear axle or rear axle sub-frame, from the hitch receiver, in order to aid in that transfer by lengthening the "lever arm" effect & spread it out forward of the hitch itself.

The HW/TW is a function of the amount of wt. carried forward of the axle(s) based on the wt. balance, so how the trailer is loaded can push more or less wt. to the HW/TW. Additionally, the hitch's wt., LP tack+LP, & anything else up forward of the trailer adds to it, while stuff at the rear of the trailer balances it out - much as pilots do to get their aircraft weight & balance even & correct to fly safely.

Single axle trailers will be more sensitive to wt. balance fore & aft, than tandem/triple/quad axle trailers, because it's one pivot point at the trailer wheel, rather than spread over 2-3 wheels.

It needs to be weighed at the coupler or HH/PP head to determine what it actually is.

HW is typically recco'd to be 10-15% of your trailer's total gross wt. for safe towing, control & limiting trailer sway. And it is typically more than what the trailer mfgrs. put in their specs for a dry & unloaded trailer - usually without options.

For example, our `60 Avion T20 (1961 MY) is listed as 2680 lbs. total with 285 HW - but as currently set-up with full tanks & packed to go, using my Sherline HW scale it is actually 542 lbs. - including the 160# which the Hensley Cub adds. I can affect it by loading something heavy at the rear of the trailer of course, such as putting our bikes & trailer spare on a rear bumper rack with a bolt on receiver (combined wt.).

IIRC - the Hensley Cub weighs 160 lbs., the H. Arrow weighs 180#, & someone with a ProPride can add it's wt. here, & ditto for the other WD hitches being discussed.

Also, I stand corrected on the Hensley Arrow - if goes up to 14,000# & 1400# HW. Info is here for anyone interested in HC/HA:

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

https://hensleymfg.com/faq/hensley-arrow/ (also explains WD)

Cheers!
Tom
////////

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I appreciate all the insights. I thank you all again for all your input.

I am now taking donations for a 2017 Escalade ESV Platinum with all the bells and whistles :-)

Well, now we know that you have expensive tastes!

PS - If you wait to pick up a demo after a year or an off-lease/trade-in after 2-3 with low miles & well cared for, & with the Caddy CPO, then you can probably get a great one for 20-50% less than when new!

I forgot to mention that when we 1st got the Avion in 2012, I towed it from Albuquerque to SoCal 800+/- mi. with a 2013 Ford F150 that had the built-in anti-sway, which worked okay with the Avion on a "bare ball" - since WD wasn't needed much with that big truck & a 2700-3000 lb. trailer.

However, when we first tried a mid-size SUV rental of the former truck-based 2013 MY Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 with its tow option, & using just a "bare ball" hook-up (i.e.: no WD/AS hitch), we had the same type of bare-knuckle E-ticket drive up to Pismo & back - which is less curvey & lesser grades than you to Big Bear - & had to stick to 50-55 max., & less with winds or an 18 wheeler whizzing by. So we got the Hensley Cub before the next outing & problem solved.

Your situation with the bent hitch & broken anti-sway components was essentially the same situation, as my "bare ball" experience.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[dkottum]

The scale position on the length of the trailer tongue and hitch changes the weight reading on the tongue weight scale. Here's an example by one of our members, 200 lbs difference from tongue jack post to ProPride stinger at the receiver position.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...on-102151.html

For that reason I take tongue weight reports with a grain of salt, they are inconsistent. More importantly, what I need to know is the amount of weight the loaded Airstream adds to our truck when we are hooked up and weight distribution set.

We can only learn that by weighing the truck without the Airstream, and then again with the Airstream hitched and w.d. set. On our first trip with our new truck, our loaded Airstream (835 lbs factory spec hitch weight empty) and ProProde hitch (180 lbs) added 840 lbs to our truck.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by avionstream

So is the Hensley being used to compensate for an unsafe trailer, too light of tongue weight.? If I have a trailer with less than ten percent tongue weight and it sways when using a regular WD hitch, I can buy a Hensley to make up for an unsafe trailer.

I don't think that's a good reason to use a Hensley style hitch.

However any bumper-pull trailer will reach a point if enough outside forces are present, such as gusting side wind, traveling downhill, to much speed, semi bow wave, where there will be a tendency to move out of alignment with the tow vehicle. That is the beginning of an oscillating sway condition if the forces continue or the trailer is unstable.

The Hensley design will prevent that initial tendency for the trailer to move out of alignment with the tow vehicle. Also, any sway tendency is stopped at the tow vehicles rear axle, it is not leveraged forward to the steering axle.

That's a good reason to use the Hensley design.

[SpletKay06]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

No, not true. All the WD does is to distribute the HW/TW evenly between the TV's front & rear axles, by having the torsion springs "push" on the hitch receiver in order to push the rear-end of the TV up & thereby the front end down. Ergo, why CanAm adds that steel tube link forward to the rear frame near the rear axle or rear axle sub-frame, from the hitch receiver, in order to aid in that transfer by lengthening the "lever arm" effect & spread it out forward of the hitch itself.

The HW/TW is a function of the amount of wt. carried forward of the axle(s) based on the wt. balance, so how the trailer is loaded can push more or less wt. to the HW/TW. Additionally, the hitch's wt., LP tack+LP, & anything else up forward of the trailer adds to it, while stuff at the rear of the trailer balances it out - much as pilots do to get their aircraft weight & balance even & correct to fly safely.

Single axle trailers will be more sensitive to wt. balance fore & aft, than tandem/triple/quad axle trailers, because it's one pivot point at the trailer wheel, rather than spread over 2-3 wheels.

It needs to be weighed at the coupler or HH/PP head to determine what it actually is.

HW is typically recco'd to be 10-15% of your trailer's total gross wt. for safe towing, control & limiting trailer sway. And it is typically more than what the trailer mfgrs. put in their specs for a dry & unloaded trailer - usually without options.

For example, our `60 Avion T20 (1961 MY) is listed as 2680 lbs. total with 285 HW - but as currently set-up with full tanks & packed to go, using my Sherline HW scale it is actually 542 lbs. - including the 160# which the Hensley Cub adds. I can affect it by loading something heavy at the rear of the trailer of course, such as putting our bikes & trailer spare on a rear bumper rack with a bolt on receiver (combined wt.).

IIRC - the Hensley Cub weighs 160 lbs., the H. Arrow weighs 180#, & someone with a ProPride can add it's wt. here, & ditto for the other WD hitches being discussed.

Also, I stand corrected on the Hensley Arrow - if goes up to 14,000# & 1400# HW. Info is here for anyone interested in HC/HA:

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

https://hensleymfg.com/faq/hensley-arrow/ (also explains WD)

Cheers!
Tom
////////

Easy tiger it was a joke.

[Gamehawkers]

Sounds like a lot of great advice. Simply stated do not overload the trailer. Make sure you keep a majority of the weight forward of the axle. Keep tire pressures at recommended levels. As far as a tow vehicle is concerned, it is far better to have a 3/4 ton pickup that is rated to haul 1.5 times the weight your hauling than a lighter vehicle that is not capable of safety pulling the load.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Well, now we know that you have expensive tastes!

PS - If you wait to pick up a demo after a year or an off-lease/trade-in after 2-3 with low miles & well cared for, & with the Caddy CPO, then you can probably get a great one for 20-50% less than when new!

I forgot to mention that when we 1st got the Avion in 2012, I towed it from Albuquerque to SoCal 800+/- mi. with a 2013 Ford F150 that had the built-in anti-sway, which worked okay with the Avion on a "bare ball" - since WD wasn't needed much with that big truck & a 2700-3000 lb. trailer.

However, when we first tried a mid-size SUV rental of the former truck-based 2013 MY Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 with its tow option, & using just a "bare ball" hook-up (i.e.: no WD/AS hitch), we had the same type of bare-knuckle E-ticket drive up to Pismo & back - which is less curvey & lesser grades than you to Big Bear - & had to stick to 50-55 max., & less with winds or an 18 wheeler whizzing by. So we got the Hensley Cub before the next outing & problem solved.

Your situation with the bent hitch & broken anti-sway components was essentially the same situation, as my "bare ball" experience.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

I had my bent hitch fixed. I am ordering the replacement anti-sway bar, should be here well before my next trip. I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me.

I will bring both gens and keep it in the TV just in case the sway bar is not enough. I will put them in the front dinette if I need to and see what happens again.

I am aware of all the weight issues from prior post on this thread.

Renting a TV just to go to BigBear again doesn't make sense financially. I think we will end up renting a hotel room instead. BigBear in the summer is a lot nicer than I expected.

[RareStream]

You are ASKING for trouble.

That is TOO MUCH of a pendulum on the back of the trailer. TOO MUCH.

You HAVE to secure the bikes so they don't bounce. There has to be support cabling of some sort from the top of the bikes to the midband of the trailer for support. Strap them so they can NOT move or bounce whatsoever. The bike rack's apparatus is not enough. There WILL still be bouncing. You might think it's not a lot. But it is. You have to realize the lever action involved. You're not realizing the amount of force that is being generated by that much weight bouncing on the back of the trailer even when it bounces a tiny amount. Four bikes and the weight of the hitch and bike rack is a whole helluva fruckuva lot.

Sure, you can put the generators in the front of the trailer to try to counteract it, but that weight is static while the bikes' weight is dynamic.

And, you have waaaaaay too little power in your tow vehicle to do this safely. Straight lines on a flat highway and you're probably fine. A little hill and a headwind and you're dead in the water, overheating and killing your tranny. A few side gusts and that back end starts swinging...that little anti-sway device ain't gonna stop it.

TWO bikes, as long as they are secured at the top to the midline of the trailer so they can NOT bounce or create a momentum I can see as possibly doable. FOUR(!!!) bikes and you're just ASKING for it.

And that's NOT fair to others on the road.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by cazual6

3. My Traverse does have the tow package. I knew one day I would be towing something, I never dreamed it would be an AS (thank you wife).

4. The only way I can make my bike work in the back is to have have the gens as counter weight. But the wife says no regardless, so I guess Bikes will be inside the AS.

5. I am at the border line of my weight limit on the AS and my TV tow capacity.

10. Finally, I thank you for all the love and support through this forum.

Your rig looks great!
We are towing a larger trailer with a lighter TV and with the Reese dual cam it tows great. The Can Am set up and adjustments really helps with no guess work on our part. Our bikes (two) always travel inside the trailer secured over the axles as in that location it maintains proper balance.

[OTRA15]

Assuming that you actually follow through on your intention to give it the old college try again, and further assuming that your trailer will be loaded beyond the mfg. rating, plus tow vehicle too maybe . . .

Please realize you are opening yourself up to an incredible lawsuit should you be involved in an accident of some kind, even if it is not your fault in theory.

Not to mention the risk of serious bodily injury or death.

Finally it is irresponsible as already stated to do so. You would be intentionally creating serious risk to others.

"Do unto others . . . ." ???



PS if the assumptions made at the start do not apply, I hope your next trip is great!

Originally Posted by cazual6

I had my bent hitch fixed. I am ordering the replacement anti-sway bar, should be here well before my next trip. I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me.

I will bring both gens and keep it in the TV just in case the sway bar is not enough. I will put them in the front dinette if I need to and see what happens again.

I am aware of all the weight issues from prior post on this thread.

Renting a TV just to go to BigBear again doesn't make sense financially. I think we will end up renting a hotel room instead. BigBear in the summer is a lot nicer than I expected.

[dkottum]

"I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me."

Maybe you will never have gusting side winds, semi bow wave, travel downhill with a bit too much speed, brake or swerve for something suddenly in the road, or a combination of the things that introduce a sway condition, on a trailer so poorly modified it is known to sway out of control under normal conditions.

Incredible, and a risk to others on the roadway.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I had my bent hitch fixed. I am ordering the replacement anti-sway bar, should be here well before my next trip. I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me.



I will bring both gens and keep it in the TV just in case the sway bar is not enough. I will put them in the front dinette if I need to and see what happens again.



I am aware of all the weight issues from prior post on this thread.



Renting a TV just to go to BigBear again doesn't make sense financially. I think we will end up renting a hotel room instead. BigBear in the summer is a lot nicer than I expected.

Listen, I'm sorry to "pile on" here and I'm not a doom and gloom kind of guy (though I did have an emergency exit door installed on my trailer for risk management, but that's another story...) - but you say here you're aware of the weight issues from prior posts on the thread which sounds inconsistent with actually trying this again...

Apologies if being blunt here is too harsh, but I'm concerned with your description of your setup, your acceptance of a dealer's mod the factory surely wouldn't approve (exactly for the reasons you've written about and also including frame separation) and your saying (basically) you understand what's been written in this thread but you're moving forward without truly addressing the risks you have inherent in your setup.

Honestly, it's not safe for you, your family and others with whom you are sharing the roads.

Please reconsider the warnings and advice you've received and ensure your rig is safe for traveling. I really don't want to read about some tragic catastrophe or fatality that was completely preventable. And not to be a complete jerk - but if you're not going to address this more carefully, I would hope you would at least post your planned travels and routes so others can reduce their risks of sharing a road with a hazardous setup.

I hope you'll give this the serious consideration it's due.

[Lily&Me]

It seems the OP has been told of the risks, several different ways and by several different people.

He now chooses to be a responsible driver, looking out for himself and others...or he does not.

He's been told.


Maggie

[Andrew T]

Hi
Andy here from Can-Am, we have hundreds of customers who tow with the Traverse or its sister products, it can be a very good tow vehicle but first this is VERY IMPORTANT! PLEASE DON'T tow with 4 bikes on the back!

This is far too much weight behind the axle on a 19' trailer. Also the frame of the 19' is not designed to handle that much weight that far behind the axle. They make some really great bike carriers that adapt to the Traverse roof rack that you already have. That would be the place to carry the bikes.

If you carry a small aluminum step ladder it will be easier to put the bikes on the roof. The bikes inside the Airstream are fine but kind of a pain and it is easy to mark up the interior with them.

Your Traverse is actually a considerably more stable tow vehicle than an Escalade. Towing with an Escalade won't make you safer if you don't change anything else.

For towing the 19' the standard hitch on the Traverse is not Likely strong enough to properly transfer Hitch weight. You can try setting it up but I think you will find that you cannot get the front end to push down with the standard receiver. R&J Speed in Uplands can likely do this reinforce for you. If they are not able to it is one that we can build here and ship to you for installation there but that is likely more costly.

You can improve the climbing performance and handling with a better tire size on the Traverse. A good radiator shop can install a larger radiator if you like but we generally don't have trouble with Traverses running warm. What RPM were you climbing at?

I hope this helps and feel free to send me a regular email if I can help further.

Procedure for determining which chain to use:
Setting The Torsion Bars:

Once your ball mount is set up properly, the next step is to set the torsion bar pressure by determining which link to use.

1) To do this you want ideally a cement pad but nice flat fairly new pavement will work. To start, you want the Trailer and tow vehicle in a straight line, disconnected, with the coupler ready to drop on the ball.

2) With the tow vehicle in position but disconnected apply some masking tape to all four corners of the tow vehicle’s bumpers. Chose a measurement to mark on the masking tape for example 22 inches, or whatever is appropriate for your tow vehicle. The number does not matter all we are doing is determining the height of the tow vehicle without the trailer.

3) Now that we know how the tow vehicle sits without the trailer we want to determine the change in position when we connect. Generally the goal is to have the tow vehicle pushed straight down, so the front is pushed down the same amount as the rear. Go ahead now and connect the trailer using whichever link you can connect to. If your tow vehicle has independent rear suspension you will need to roll it forward and back about 4’ to let the tires swing out to their normal position. Just put a block behind the trailer tire so you stop in the same spot and don’t turn the steering wheel.

4) You will find that the tow vehicle will have been pushed down by the weight of the trailer. For example, the rear measurement may now be 20” instead of 22” but the front may have come up to 22.5”. In this case, you would need to go up to the next link (adding tension to the torsion bars) and measure again.

5) However, you may find that the next link puts you into the opposite position where the front is pushed down 1” and the back stays even at the 22” mark. This means that the torsion bars are transferring too much weight forward.

6) If this is the case then you need a partial link. To do that overlap two chain links and slide a ½” bolt through them. A ½” bolt is 1/3 of a link of adjustment so in some cases you will need 2 bolts to achieve the correct transfer. (picture attached)

7) Most tow vehicles will end between 21 ¼” & 21 ½” front and rear if you started with marks at 22”.

8) If you are setting up a new hitch the bars will wear in quite quickly. You will likely need to add a third of a link in 2-500 miles. You will need another third after another 500-1000 miles. You will likely feel the difference in the steering as this happens. After a while it just won’t feel as planted as it was after your initial set up. It is fine to experiment 1/3 of a link at a time you should notice the difference right away if it was the right or wrong change to make.

9) Substantial change in loading in the rear of the tow vehicle or the front or rear of the trailer will also affect your torsion bar settings.

10) Always keep the ends of the torsion bars and the ball well greased. The sway bar balls do not require grease.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the feedback on the bike loading, and great clear instructions on the WD setup.

Peter

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I had my bent hitch fixed. I am ordering the replacement anti-sway bar, should be here well before my next trip. I will try again with the four bikes in the back with the sway control. Keeping the speed first at 45 then moving up to 65 max and see what happens. I will see if I can convince my BFF to take that trial run with me.

I will bring both gens and keep it in the TV just in case the sway bar is not enough. I will put them in the front dinette if I need to and see what happens again.

I am aware of all the weight issues from prior post on this thread.

Renting a TV just to go to BigBear again doesn't make sense financially. I think we will end up renting a hotel room instead. BigBear in the summer is a lot nicer than I expected.

Don't try the test run until you have the anti-sway parts installed - probably the max. resistance units available, & for both sides.

You may have to leave some stuff home (hopefully not the wife or kids ), if it's too close to the TV or AS gross max., including the generators - or use the roof rack idea someone suggested on here for the bikes (get something adaptable to future TVs like Yakima, etc.) - in order to keep the trailer & TV in-bounds of the wt. limits.

PS - I just now see that Andy already gave you the advice - please do follow it, as he's an expert in these smaller TVs!

It might be worthwhile to email Andy Thomson at CanAm in Ontario CAN (see their ads on here) for advice on how to set up your Traverse & AS to tow safely, since he's the king of using cars & smaller suv/cuv TVs. He also has some good "Hitch Hints" articles on their website linked to the Canadian RV Lifestyle magazine website, where the full run of them are available to read. Well worth reading them for your set-up!

And relative to some other comments on Hitch Wt./Tongue Wt. with a WD hitch not mattering, it does with respect to how much wt. you hang off the back of any TV so that you're not exceeding it. Although, some mfgrs.' tow ratings seem to be the result of throwing darts at a chart of numbers, especially when they change on the same TV between model years, as one of Andy Thomson's articles about the Chrysler 300 dropping from 4-5000 to 1000!

So do rig up something at home or at a truck scale to weigh both the trailer overall alone, TV alone, both/all + the hitch/tongue wt. (some folks have used a bathroom or shop scale capable of 300-400-500 lbs (or more for the heavier HWs), with 4x4 pieces cribbed to get up to the tongue/hitch ht. (deducting the wt. of the wood of course). You can affect the HW/TW to get it to the target 10-15% & within your TV's HW/TW capacity by wt. & balance - then just get the TV's wheel wells heights back to the unhitched position as I & others noted above.

There are some good posts with advice & links to charts & procedures on how to weigh your trailer & rig, & the Sherline website has a free pdf booklet on wts. etc. there too.

Have eyes in the back of your head when over 55, since the towing speed limit is 55 in CA - sometimes posted for "All Vehicles When Towing," & sometimes only "Cars When Towing" .... I'm just saying!

Also, we used to find that we could rent a house or condo for the same or less than a hotel room up there - especially for the non-skiing/snowboarding off-season in summer, when we'd take our kids up there in our `88 Westfalia & not want to camp out in it. So you might check that avenue as well, for the interim.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by avionstream

No, not referring to you, sorry. I was referring to the op logic. Doctors prescribe rx that causes side effects so they prescribe another drug to counteract the first one. The op has an overloaded trailer so his solution is to add more weight up front instead of eliminating the weight on the rear. Get a second drug to offset the first drug, which was usually not necessaryto begin with.. My logic?

Thank you guys for all the love and support.

Estimated weight I have put into the FC19 is roughly 140lbs (blankets, pots, pans, utensils, etc) With fresh water tank full another (8lbs = 1g) another 176lbs lets round it up to 350lbs

Now, with the bikes, let's assume the four bikes = 200lbs. So now I am 550lbs loaded into the AS. Black and Grey are empty.

Net capacity on FC19 is 600+lbs. So lets just say for argument, I am 600lbs which is the net capacity of the FC19.

Each of the Yamaha ES200IS is 44lbs times two, 88lbs with Fuel, lets round it up to 100lbs.

So as it stands with the two gens in the FC19, I am 100lbs over. Keep in mind, I have rounded up a lot of things to account for any +/- on the weight. But lets keep assuming we are 100lbs over the net capacity.

The hitch on the back is solid. It is attached on the rig fine. I know it could be cleaner, but lets leave esthetics out of it for now. It is rated for 200lbs.

The bike rack is designed for trailers. I got the gitters out of it by using anti rattle mount and mentioned in another post. The Bike Mount is physically acting as part of the trailer with no gitter or play.

Tow capacity on 2012 Chevy Traverse with a tow package is 5200lbs.

FC19 with the 100lbs over is at 4600lbs which leaves me with roughly 600lbs.

Assume, me, wife and two kids = 500lbs (don't try to guess the wifes weight, she'll be mad)

Again, I am still under the weights capacity designed for the TV. I know I am at the peak, but still within specs. I know you should have more than what you need, then again, I am within specs. So given that I am all around with specs.

I wouldn't risk myself or others carelessly. I appreciate all the concern and love I have received from this post. As mentioned before, I don't take offense to anything no matter how brutally honest it maybe. I just want you to all know, I am/have considered factors.

I am confident in my theory before proceeding.

I do believe with the four bikes in the back with the swaybar maybe keep it from swayingl. If I do feel any sway, I will put the two gens in the FC19. If either way I am wrong, I will have no choice but to put the two bikes inside the AS. Not my preferred idea, but will do.

Given all the information I provided, I would still appreciate any feedback.

[OTRA15]

Here is the clear statement from a leading expert on towing with your tow vehicle.

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Hi
Andy here from Can-Am, we have hundreds of customers who tow with the Traverse or its sister products, it can be a very good tow vehicle but first this is VERY IMPORTANT! PLEASE DON'T tow with 4 bikes on the back!
. . .

[cazual6]

Ok, one last comment and I will forfeit the idea.

Given that it is a single axel, and putting a counter weight in the front to offset the bike, are you still saying that it will sway regardless if the front has weight to counter the weight in the back?

I understand having too much weight in the back will sway, I know, I experienced it. But now, that I am putting a counter weight so technically I am balanced, are you saying no matter what it will sway, even with the anti-sway bar?

As I purchased the anti sway bar, I noticed it comes as a LEFT and RIGHT, currently I have it set up for the RIGHT. If I get the LEFT also to give me more of anti-sway, are you saying even with the counter weight and dual anti-sway, I will still sway?

I do not want to sound ungrateful for all the insights. I just to make sure you see the logic and exclude any calculations I have already done.

All previous stuff mentioned about weights, tongue weights, rear weight etc. I get that. But countering the weight will negate that weight offset. Unless I am missing something here. If I am dead wrong, I can accept it, but I would like to see deduction of parameters that are exceeding any calculations I have presented. Telling me I am wrong, given that I am driven type of guy will not stop me. If I am wrong, I need to know why so I can follow it, accept it and do without my idea.

If I am wrong, I want to completely understand why.

If you fear for me, as a weapon here are some details. I live in Northridge 91324 that is in Southern California just north of Los Angeles. When I do my test run, it will likely be on Sunday morning between 9a and 10a. I will be using the 118 E to the 210 E and head back. Because I care, there are my plans. And to put icing on the cake, I will post exactly when I will be doing it IF I end up doing it at all.

Again, I do not want to sound ungrateful, I really do appreciate all the insights. This trip rattled my wife, and I want to continue AS'ing with bikes. I just don't like having the bikes inside the AS. So it is important for me to understand.

Thank you again.