Out of control sway

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

I think you have answered your own question. On a smaller trailer like yours, adding all that weight WAY behind the center of gravity (front-to-back) -- without the gens inside -- really changes the center of gravity.

Could your water and holding tanks have been another factor to consider in the before-and-after picture? Not sure where yours are located, but our fresh water tank is right at the stern of the trailer. If we add a bike rack and bikes to our FC20, I have heard that we should travel without much fresh water back there.

Also, does your tow vehicle have its own sway control, and what weight distribution and sway control set up do you have on the trailer, if any? Could they have played a role here?

Glad you are OK, but if you have towed without sway before, you can probably adjust for this.

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- Welcome to the forum, and please wait for more expert opinions than mine to come along . . .

PS2 -- You might consider weighing the four bikes, and figure out the center of gravity for that mass on its own, which was located roughly 10 feet behind the trailer's center of gravity. That is a huge weight to put on the end of the pendulum. You might also want to load the four bikes on the trailer, then weigh the actual tongue weight of the trailer. Bet it changes to something outside of the design parameters for the trailer (and the WD/SC hitch if applicable).

I would also recommend checking all your tire pressures, especially the tow vehicle. Also weighing your entire rig carefully, as you may be overloading it with things like the 2 2000 gens inside. Small trailers like ours aren't really rated to hold a lot, and are easy to overload, increasing safety concerns like sway, and stopping ability.

Peter,

As I look back on this, I am so glad for your advice and others. I was and still a knuckle head, just a little wiser now.

[bweybright]

Saw a bumper sticker once.... "to be old and wise one must first be young and stupid". You have come a long way in understanding from your first posts and it is admirable that you are realizing and thanking folks from the past. Good job, more folks should follow your lead.
I find that so true....as I am still working for old and wise....except that age has me older and still stupid sometimes.
Hope springs eternal for me that I will someday achieve old and wise, as long as I can still keep trailering.
It is a weird point of life when I start to think about when I should stop trailering for the safety of those around me, both family and public.

[rmkrum]

My usual comment is on the order of, “I used to be young and foolish, and now I’m no longer young. “

I carefully live up to that every day. Seven decades plus so far.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Peter,

As I look back on this, I am so glad for your advice and others. I was and still a knuckle head, just a little wiser now.

Thank you.

. . . . . We all share the human condition of imperfection. . . . . .

Glad it all worked out.

Happy trails,

Peter

PS -- Well said, bb and Rich.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Peter,

As I look back on this, I am so glad for your advice and others. I was and still a knuckle head, just a little wiser now.

So what did you end up doing to resolve your sway, bike rack, generator, tow vehicle, etc. issues?



Tom
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[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

So what did you end up doing to resolve your sway, bike rack, generator, tow vehicle, etc. issues?



Tom
///////

I never used the hitch again to hold all four bikes. Just two kids bikes and put the two adult bikes in side.

i have since then upgraded to an FC25RT and i bought a truck bed bike carrier.

For a while, the bike hitch was there only to hold my flag pole and as a tower drying rack.

What life lessons we must go through, luckily, I came out ok. Whheeeww!!!

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

I never used the hitch again to hold all four bikes. Just two kids bikes and put the two adult bikes in side.

i have since then upgraded to an FC25RT and i bought a truck bed bike carrier.

For a while, the bike hitch was there only to hold my flag pole and as a tower drying rack.

What life lessons we must go through, luckily, I came out ok. Whheeeww!!!

So, did you upgrade from your Chevy Traverse or whatever you had before?



Sorry if you've posted that, & I forgot.



I assume then that you must've gotten a different WD/AS hitch for the bigger/heavier FC25RT.


It wouldn't hurt to post in here with pix & some basic details, your final solution which you're at now with trailer, TV, hitch, bikes & gear cargo, etc. - so that other newbies seeking help can see what has now worked for you.


Think of it as paying it forward to the community.



Cheers!
Tom
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[pteck]

For posterity, a viable hitch mounted bike rake is very possible. As shown in this thread, it's important to consider its impact on the overall structure and stability. The setup has to be considered as a system.

If one already has marginal stability such that water changes handling dynamics, shorter smaller trailers where minimum weight at the rear dramatically changes center of gravity, or has moved weight off the tongue in changing to lithium's for example... An extra dose of due diligence is required.

As a working example of what can work, here's my setup. Custom 2" receiver setup below the rear bumper. Tied into structural cross members in the Airstream chassis. Using a Yakima Fourtimer bike rack in 2-bike configuration tight and close to the bumper to minimize weight/leverage and make sure the back rack has enough structure for trailer use. Also important is that I added weight to the tongue. In the form of upgrading my 2x group 27 batts to 6V batts. I also have a Honda eu2200i generator on my tongue. Probably 75lbs added.

My setup has proven to be stable having done thousands of miles in challenging grades and windy mountain roads at speed. Using a standard Equalizer WD hitch with 1000lb bars.

Build thread here - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f477...ml#post2144885

[bweybright]

I am truly not being snotty here but could you maybe explain what you do in everyday life to help you make these decisions? I certainly could not do what you are doing...my father in law yes the difference being I am a business person he is a mechanical engineer.
The reason I ask this is so that people seeing what you are doing understand your knowledge base and where you are coming from.
I realize a lot of stuff can be done....by the right mind and the limitations. So understanding what base knowledge needs to be there is very relevant.

[bweybright]

Off topic, but what the heck....what brand of tandem, I can't really make it out from the picture? I don't know that I want my wife to see this picture as our Comotion is hanging in the garage under used.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by bweybright

Off topic, but what the heck....what brand of tandem, I can't really make it out from the picture?
. . .

Have you checked the thread that pteck linked in Post #208?

Originally Posted by pteck

. . .
Build thread here - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f477...ml#post2144885
. . .

This is a cleaner link FYI:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f477...de-185802.html

Peter

[pteck]

@bweybright, fair question. I'm an engineer. A systems engineer responsible for bringing all engineering disciplines together to build something that works. IMO, there's no such thing as not possible. It's an engineers job to make ideas possible. Yet it's all rooted in reality so the end product has to honor various principles and trades.

Bike is an older aluminum Raleigh. My wife and I are casual riders. I'm usually dragging the kids on the tandem more than the wife these days.

[bweybright]

I appreciate your reply, thank you. Just trying to clarify for those who read this thread later to later realize and understand you have knowledge and background experience that helped you make your decisions..which many of us, including me do not.
The bike: Nice, a classic? Yeah....my wife would like the tandem more but she is a future advanced chip EE engineer at a major company working 70-80 weeks so I would end up dragging her...which I am not capable at this point in my aging life. So I totally understand the dragging of the kids.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

So, did you upgrade from your Chevy Traverse or whatever you had before?



Sorry if you've posted that, & I forgot.



I assume then that you must've gotten a different WD/AS hitch for the bigger/heavier FC25RT.


It wouldn't hurt to post in here with pix & some basic details, your final solution which you're at now with trailer, TV, hitch, bikes & gear cargo, etc. - so that other newbies seeking help can see what has now worked for you.


Think of it as paying it forward to the community.



Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom,

I bought the FC25 without the wife knowing. So she was pretty mad. She wouldn't allow me to buy a truck. Traverse can not tow it.

So I just rent trucks from Enterprise commercial division. F250

All good now. No issue was so ever.

[wave man]

Doh!

[bweybright]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Tom,

I bought the FC25 without the wife knowing. So she was pretty mad. She wouldn't allow me to buy a truck. Traverse can not tow it.

So I just rent trucks from Enterprise commercial division. F250

All good now. No issue was so ever.

DUDE, you take my "it has been in the garage for awhile, you didn't see it dear ?" to a new level.
Originally - no, but now I should maybe follow your wifely wisdom as I can learn from your posts!!!! Did that and not get divorced?

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Tom,

I bought the FC25 without the wife knowing. So she was pretty mad. She wouldn't allow me to buy a truck. Traverse can not tow it.

So I just rent trucks from Enterprise commercial division. F250

All good now. No issue was so ever.

PS - I assume that "No issue what so ever." is only regarding the towing!

Hopefully your wife will forgive you ..... eventually.



I recall my recco for the Enterprise Truck Rental early on in your thread, so glad that it worked out for you to rent. Unless you do a lot of trips, frankly the rentals are probably less all in per year, than buying, insurance, care & feeding of your own truck or SUV.



In fact, we continue to rent since getting our Avion in 2012, & it's worked fine for us & probably less or a wash vs. owning (except for the larger vehicle maneuvering issues in our tight driveway/street situation).



Although I've had to request their RAM 2500 trucks due to some programming conflict with the 2017> F250's & my vintage trailer - probably electronic/software glitch in the Fords (yes, I did try the Curt cut-out/bypass adapter). It would work fine when hooked up to our `88 VW Westfalia's 4-pin (with 7-to-4 pin adapter), & with any other pre-2018 Ford or any other RAM or Chevy/GMC truck when hooked up side-by-side with the Avion+F250 rig!


So word of warning for vintage Airstream & Kin owners looking at F150/250/etc. trucks post 2017 (2015>).



I'm still looking off-&-on for a V8 Porsche Cayenne S, or we may move past the end of those into the 2015> V6 TT CayS, or maybe a Toyota Sequoyah or Land Cruiser - especially if we start traveling more trips per now that my wife retired from the hospital & we have the flexibility.



Travel Safe!

Tom
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[Andrew T]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Tom,

I bought the FC25 without the wife knowing. So she was pretty mad. She wouldn't allow me to buy a truck. Traverse can not tow it.

So I just rent trucks from Enterprise commercial division. F250

All good now. No issue was so ever.

The Traverse can be set up to tow the 25' very nicely if would like that option. We have done a couple of hundred on that platform since 2008. If you would like more info feel free to send me an email. There is a shop there in LA that can strengthen the receiver and I can tell you what to do from there. The 25' set up properly will tow dramatically better than your smaller Airstream.

Andy