Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-15-2017, 11:25 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Rgentum's Avatar
 
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Woodinville , Washington
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 500
1. Obtain "dealer's cost" for the car you want --- do a Google search for "dealer's cost", which should bring up lots of sites. Typically, this will be the "invoice price" on any particular car. If you have found a particular car that you want, ask the dealer to show you its invoice price sheet; if they won't show it to you, find a dealer who will.
2. Realize that the dealer's profit is not just the difference between what you pay & its "cost" (eg, invoice price) --- that's only one element of its profit. The way volume dealers make profit is by selling lots of cars even below, at, or near invoice & then by making their true profit on dealer holdbacks & factory incentives, which can really add up with a large volume of sales. (I bought my first truck at Santa Monica Ford, who had contracts to sell Fords to local rental car agencies --- its retail storefront was almost a joke, as they made their profit not from retail sales but by volume sales to the rental agencies; therefore, I was able to get the truck for invoice price, as the sale just added one more unit to their holdbacks & incentives.)
3. In my work, I've done lots & lots of deals and I always, always do my research, figure out how much I'd like to pay & the most I'm willing to pay, and make the first offer, ie, I don't ask the seller "How much?" I tell the seller, "I'll pay you $x for the product." And then the fun begins. And, as others have said, always, always, be prepared to say, "Thank you" and walk away if the deal won't work on your terms. Ie, don't fall in love with the product & "have to have it."
__________________

__________________
Alta & Richard, Seattle area --- WBCCI 8873
"Aurum": 2018 Ram/Cummins 3500
"Argentum": 2016 AS FC 27 FB
"BigDog": M Harlequin Great Dane, 150 lb
WL7Z --- NAUI --- WSBA
Rgentum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 11:29 AM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
2018 30' Classic
Mountain View , California
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 35
New tow

If you are a Costco member they are a great company for taking all of the hassle out of your experience. You'll get to see the dealer invoice and all of the discounts. Very satisfied with our new truck special ordered through this.
__________________

JFRINALDI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 11:56 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
richw46's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,310
Images: 6
I read a book in the late 90s, "Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton (available on Amazon). He was a used/new car salesman. There were a number of things that were interesting (a good book) but he gave a couple pieces of advice I thought were pretty interesting:

1. The salesman you're dealing with has all the authority he needs to close the deal. He doesn't need to "check with the sales manager" for anything. If this is the excuse for leaving the room he's probably going to check the ball game score, get some coffee or other personal errand. (Where I lived, a local news investigative team found out a dealership's sales offices were 'bugged'. The salesman would leave to go listen to the couple's conversation about the deal. Be careful what you say while the salesman is out of the office.)

2. There are 3 parts to the deal that should always be kept separate, never work a deal that mixes these up.
A. Selling/trading your old car
B. Buying the new car
C. Financing your new car
Mr. Sutton says to keep each of these separate.

For prices, I like to use Edmunds.com. When I used to have access to the dealer cost of new vehicles and accessories, their prices were spot on for dealer cost and sticker price. I don't have that access anymore, so I can't say if that's still true, but Edmunds will also give you the value of a vehicle for private or dealership sale. That's a good starting point for haggling.

Don't be afraid to walk away. The last time I bought a new truck I went to 5 different dealerships. 4 of them didn't get my business, although I told them I was buying a truck that week. The 5th one found the vehicle I wanted and the price was agreeable. All 4 of the other dealerships called me within the next 10 days.
__________________
-Rich

Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE

richw46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 12:22 PM   #18
1 Rivet Member
 
Henderson , Kentucky
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Don't limit yourself to dealer inventory

Before starting my shopping, I made a list of my 'must-have' options and realized quickly that all of the trucks on the lots were built with 'packages' containing thousands of dollars of options I didn't care about. I found a dealer who was willing to sit down and spec out the truck I really wanted and ordered it for 4,000 less than anything on the lots that included 'my options'. I had exactly the truck I wanted 6 weeks later at a big savings.
__________________
1987 Sovereign 29 Center Bath Twin
2016 F150 Supercab 3.5L Ecoboost
hkeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 03:31 PM   #19
PKI
Rivet Master
 
PKI's Avatar
 
2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Walnut Creek , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,356
Truecar is a bit high. Not bad and worth using as a data point, but if you use the pricing at Kelley Blue book, and Edmunds, you will get a pattern that is mostly consistent. The Truecar has the advertising allocation included, KBB and Edmunds don't. It's about $400 and is negotiable if you know it's there. Note - it's been two years and stuff changes, so keep an open mind.

Now, what is an acceptable price to you? Invoice plus $500, plus $1000, less $1000? A just released model will sell at one level. Some are even higher than MSRP. A current year model may be well discounted. A last years left over may be a give away. The point here is that dealers don't pay dealer invoice. Lots of offsets, special deals and allocations. You have to test the market to find the deal. And what you are happy to pay is your choice.

So, as said ..... Google is your friend. Research, research and then do some more. Know what you want. Do not go to the dealer where you want to buy until you know. When you think you know three or four models that will work, leave your checkbook at home and visit some dealers. See if your internet views are viable when you see the vehicle in person. Note - caution - they used to say that most folks purchased within 48 hours of their first dealer visit. Sounds like a statistic that might be hard to prove, but the salesperson would like it to be true.

Note - there are two different types of marketing on vehicles. The package and the individual options. Sometimes it is a variation or combination, but understand what is included in the packages and what is not. Buying a package that contains a "must have" may save you a lot. Only buying the options you need will save you a ton. Some options are safety, some are convenience, some are comfort, some are performance, some help with towing, and some are pure bling. Build your vehicle on line. It takes some time to learn how the software works, but helps when it's time to sit down. Build the must have, the nice to have, and the final compromise. It helps to massage the configurations to achieve your budget.

Now look at the inventory at local dealers. The best way to buy a vehicle is to know what you want, find it on a dealer lot, wait until the last day of the month, know what you will pay, and be ready to buy with no trade. Son goes one step forward from this. He gets an internet price and asks them to deal at that price point. Best approach is to give them a chance and leave if they don't or can't be competitive.

If you can't find one on a local lot, then look at dealers down the road. It is key to understand that you need to have that vehicle shipped or go get it. Can be an interesting vacation to go get a new vehicle.

Note that some models can be delivered in a few weeks. Others take months or even longer. Some dealerships have allocations they can convert to your sale, others just put you in line. Have a firm understanding as it is part of the negotiation.

Buying used - certified pre-owned - can be a real deal with a better warranty than new.

Part of what you are buying is the warranty. Understand what you are getting. Service and mandatory maintenance are included on some models. Worth a look. Also, depending on your vehicle, towing may be heavy service use. If it is, plan on more frequent service intervals.

Good luck - work it until you are happy. Pat
PKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 05:58 PM   #20
4 Rivet Member

 
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Holly Springs , Mississippi
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 370
Offer invoice price less the dealer's doc. fee, and less factory incentives and discounts. The dealer is keeping the hold-back. I've bought lots of cars using this approach so it may not be the absolute lowest price, but it's a good deal for you and the dealer.

Trucks have the highest hold-back, so if it's a truck you're buying, encroach on it somewhat.
__________________
Bob

2016 FC 25' FB twin
2013 F-150 Lariat CrewCab 3.5 EB 4X4 3.55 axle
Bob662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 06:51 PM   #21
3 Rivet Member
 
BessieB's Avatar

 
1997 21' Excella
Carson City , Nevada
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 174
Images: 6
Dealer stuff

I know you are in Florida, but Dave Smith motors in Kellogg, ID was a great experience. At the time we saved $17,000 buying a truck from them. Flew up, they picked us up at the airport. Got to the dealership around noon, and drove away around 3pm in our new truck. Compared to dealers in Nevada, it was a no brainer to go to them.
BessieB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 07:36 AM   #22
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 19' International
Tallahassee , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob662 View Post
The dealer is keeping the hold-back. Trucks have the highest hold-back, so if it's a truck you're buying, encroach on it somewhat.
What is the hold-back?
WhereStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 07:50 AM   #23
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 6,547
Hi

The simple answer to the question (if you want one off the lot) is to wait 6 or 9 months. You will get what ever they have left for less money than you will pay now. If you *want* the truck they have on the lot (and those exact options), that's a great thing. (If you can find a 2016 in 6 months ... it will be a real deal.)

The other answer is that most of what is on the lot around here is pretty well topped up with options. If the truck is just for towing, you can save money ordering one to your specific needs. Everything on the lot around here is 4x4, if you are ok with 2WD, drop it and save money. You *do* want the tow package (and those nice mirrors). You do want the trailer brake controller. You may not want much else.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 09:24 AM   #24
2 Rivet Member
 
2012 30' International
Dallas , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
As others have said, do the research so that you know the invoice price of the vehicle you want. Email (dealer email addresses can be found on their websites) all the dealers of your preferred make in your area (all that you can, but at least a half dozen). In your email, say that you have emailed all the dealers in the area, and that you are inviting them to reply to your email with their best price. Don't indicate what you're willing to pay; let them bid for your business. Be very specific about what model you want, as well as any options you want. Let them know what exterior and interior colors you would accept, if colors are important to you. Let them know that you are definitely going to purchase a vehicle within 48 hours from whichever dealer offers you the best price. Tell them you will not negotiate by email, phone, or in person; they simply have one chance to make their best offer by email. When you receive an email with an offer you like, phone them to confirm details, and that there is no "funny business." Then set an appointment to pay for your vehicle and pick it up. I haven't used this method personally because I typically buy used, but I have a friend who has used it successfully several times. If I buy a new vehicle in the future, this is how I'll do it. Good luck.
russingr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 09:53 AM   #25
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereStream View Post
It has been well over a decade since I've bought new from a dealer, and I don't know the best approach in the modern era.
If you want to save money, don't buy new.

It comes down to the value of your trade in. They will manipulate the numbers to make it look like a good deal when in fact, you'd be WAY better off selling your car outright and going into the dealer without a trade.

My last deal, and it was fair, I afterwards realized I should have noticed something the dealer did.
He listed all the add ons first, then subtracted my trade.
I should have taken his price, subtracted my trade and then added the extras (dealer's fee, tax, tag, prep, etc.)
That way, the extra fees look like they are negotiable, instead of being a part of the cost.
It's hard to explain without making a list. Why should a dealer's fee be added? It's nothing more than additional profit.

I had prepared myself with the NADA book value of my car.
It was a desirable trade, he wanted it, but he said, "I'm not going to give you that much."
So, I was faced with walking out or agreeing. Since I had done my homework, and couldn't find a better deal, I agreed, with a bit of bad feelings. I love my new (almost) Tundra, though.

If anyone thinks they can beat the house, they've never been to Vegas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelength View Post
Most stress is caused by the buyers not the dealers
Ha! Yes, those pesky customers should just give the dealership what he wants.
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 05:22 AM   #26
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 19' International
Tallahassee , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
It comes down to the value of your trade in.
I won't be trading in my Suburban. It is in excellent shape, with low miles. I can easily sell it myself.

I prefer a no-trade conversation with car sales folk.

Makes it easier for me to negotiate ... less monkey business.
WhereStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 08:50 AM   #27
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 6,547
Hi

In this day and age, there are a number of places you can sell your trade. You don't have to sell it yourself. Separating the trade in from the new purchase will always give you a better view of what is what. It also involves another step in the process. Where I live, separating the two parts of the deal has sales tax implications. Sometimes you just can't win...

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 09:55 AM   #28
Rivet Master
 
Rgentum's Avatar
 
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Woodinville , Washington
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 500
"As others have said, do the research so that you know the invoice price of the vehicle you want. Email ... all the dealers of your preferred make in your area .... In your email, say that you have emailed all the dealers in the area, and that you are inviting them to reply to your email with their best price. Don't indicate what you're willing to pay; let them bid for your business."
_______________________________

My experience has been different. When I have set up a bidding war among dealers, most of them "won't play," because they don't think it's worth their time, and if they do play, their bid will include a bargaining cushion, so I really won't get their truly "best" offer. Furthermore, if I ask a dealer for his "best price," and the dealer responds, I would put the dealer in an awkward personal position to try to bargain with him further, as I would be asking him to admit to both of us that his "best" price was not really his best price after all, so, emotionally, if we continued to bargain and he accepted a lesser price, he'd feel as if he was "eating crow." Why put anybody in a position in which they would have to eat their words? My experience is that bargains work best without any party taking a firm position --- keep things loose & open without it getting personal.

Rather, what I have done is, as a result of my research, to determine my best "reasonable" price that I'm willing to pay & also the absolute most price that I would be willing to pay (my "drop dead" price). That way, if any dealer accepts my "reasonable" price, I'll get the product & be really happy about it. Then I call or go see a dealer, tell him what I want, what I'm willing to pay, and that I have the money for it and can pay immediately, and ask "Can you sell me the product for $[my reasonable price]? --- if so, you have a sale.") That way the dealer is presented with a firm offer & all he has to do is to say "Yes," and he's made a sale --- no bidding, no waiting, no chance to be outbid, etc. Sometimes it works. Sometimes the dealer won't play, and I'll go on to my next dealer. Most times, however, the dealer says, "I'll get back to you." Sometimes, that works with a "Yes," and sometimes he'll say, "I can't do it for $x, but I can do it for $y," which often is not that much more than $x. In any event, now you're dealing one on one with a dealer and not in a bidding situation, and in my experience, I've typically gotten the product for my "reasonable" price or something quite close to it. My only caveat is that the "my reasonable price" has got to be realistic, somewhere around invoice (or low market price if there is no invoice price), and not a ridiculous, pie-in-the-sky price, so the dealer will take you seriously.

This is not to say that some other process won't work. Only to say that I've had decades of more-or-less daily bargaining experience in my work, and the foregoing is what has worked best for me as a buyer. And I will say that bidding wars have worked for me, but so far pretty much only with real property, such as land or homes etc. and where I've been the seller, not the buyer.
__________________

__________________
Alta & Richard, Seattle area --- WBCCI 8873
"Aurum": 2018 Ram/Cummins 3500
"Argentum": 2016 AS FC 27 FB
"BigDog": M Harlequin Great Dane, 150 lb
WL7Z --- NAUI --- WSBA
Rgentum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Great deal but No Title, Should I get it? How to get title in MI or NY? Gypset Title, VIN & Registration 13 03-28-2017 05:15 PM
Is putting cart before the horse a good idea? Is this a good deal on the cart? cantdrv55 Buyer Guidelines 33 11-10-2014 02:17 PM
right tires for '69 airstream - how to get a good deal.? Airgirl1 Tires 3 09-22-2014 06:59 AM
Deal(er) or no deal(er)? Where should I get repair / upgrade done? longdog General Repair Forum 11 09-18-2013 08:05 PM
Did I get a good deal? Nixon66 Vintage Kin 11 08-06-2008 05:06 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.