New guy with a few questions

[davisfox]

Hi everyone.....very new to the Airstream club and I need to ask an important question about my TV. I currently own a 2012 Ford Flex with the towing package. It's max towing weight is 4500 lbs and I think that is only with a weight-distribution hitch. The dry weight of the 1971 23ft. Safari Airstream we are going to purchase is 3,700 lbs. If we start adding the 1,000 lbs that most say you need to allow for, we will be over. I don't want to trade in the Flex, but I think I have to. How close is close for this engine/transmission and if I were to pack extra-light and get a hitch for the Flex, what is the best/easist to work with since I am very new to all this. I very much appreciate your responses (I need all the help I can get:-) Thanks!!!

[Belegedhel]

Welcome to the Forums!

I have stumbled across a few threads in the recent past regarding using a Flex as a TV. You can see the discussions and send a private message if so desired to your fellow Flex owners to ask them specific questions about their experiences. The built in search function in the Forums is notoriously marginal, so to do a Google search, open a new window, put in search terms with Air Forums included, and you should see results that are Forums threads.

Here is a rather lengthy one:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...eam-76419.html

good luck!

[aquinob]

Some people my tell you otherwise, but I'll say that you would be on the border of too much weight for the vehicle. Even with the proper hitch and towing equipment, you would be right at or above that 4500 lb weight limit.

Rather than the airstream I would look for an ultralight rig that comes in around 3k lbs dry so you have some margin of error.

[ericpeltier]

Here's how I look at tow capacities of cars and trucks:
Body on Frame trucks and Suvs - Short towing distance, max tow capacity. Like if you're towing a flatbed trailer full of debris to a dump. For long distance towing, only load up with 3/4 of max capacity.
For Unibody suvs and cars - Short towing distance, max tow capacity. Like if you're towing a flatbed trailer full of debris to a dump. For long distance towing, only load up with 2/3 of max capacity. And always use weight-distribution. 2/3 of your Flex's capacity would be 3000lb.

That's just my $0.02. Many people will find that conservative.

[m.hony]

I think you will be trading the Flex.

[slowmover]

Unibody is stronger. And more popular for this kind of long distance towing in the 1960s and '70's than BOF Ford and GM as Chrysler products had superior suspension, brakes and drivetrain as well.

And there is no reason to assume that vacation travel will add 1k weight to the rig. It might, but it's not a workable assumption unless a family of four is involved.

[andreasduess]

The people who drive a Flex, and tow with it, tend to like it, especially with the Ecoboost engine.

Keep in mind that the towing capacity of your Flex is not based on any engineering standards - the same car in two different markets can have different ratings. A lfair few of people on this board don't understand this distinction.

The numbers to take seriously are axle rating, tire rating and payload. As long as you are within those, you should be good, especially with a good hitch.

Were I you, I'd get my hitch reinforced, invest in a decent hitch setup and go and enjoy my rig. The early 70's trailers were designed to be towed with early seventies cars. Your Flex is 100 times more capable than those ever were.

[dcasr]

If you have the EcoBoost you have enough power. How durable it will prove to be, used hard, after five or eight years is something else. You don't say where you live; if you live in generally flat country like much of the deep South, it will be easier. If you live in Colorado or Wyoming it might not. Since you own the Flex, try it, you'll know soon enough if it is adequate. Some Airstreamers drive fairly slow, others near the speed limit, and some over the speed limit, and speed and grade, up and down are where the engine, transmission and brakes get tested. You'll know soon enough, but go for it.

[Debnw]

We have a 72 Safari. we gutted and redid added a few hundred lbs# (4000 lbs at scales empty). When we load up the truck we add approx. another 1,000 lbs of gear ( passengers included) and tanks empty. We pull with an 05 F150 5.4l and have no issues. I have rented Flexes in the past for work and they seam like thed be a great tow vehicle....As others suggested there are many posts on Flex owners....
BTY.....Do you have the dual axles....as this would be an additional benefit from a towing POV...

[davisfox]

Thank you for the quick advice! I am currently looking at the thread that was linked and it's very helpful. We always wanted an Airstream, but could never really afford it. This '71 came up and we had to pull the trigger. We have two boys, so we'll have at least those passengers and gear. We're in North Carolina (on the coast) so trips to the beach will be nice and flat, but anything west will have to go over some hills. My gut instinct told me after looking at all the numbers and driving my Flex, is that it might struggle some. We don't have the Eco-boost engine, so that might be a big factor. We we looking at the Ford Expedition as an option as well, but really never considered looking at an upgraded Flex (a good suggestion!). It will be my daily driver as well, so I do have to consider MPG verses how often a year it becomes the TV. I really do value experienced advice and want to make sure we do the right thing the first time. Please let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks again! Dave

(Also, it does have the dual axle)

[spclkaz]

One accident using the Flex as your TV and the likely lawsuit that will result if someone else is hurt will more than balance out the lower MPG the rest of the time that you are using a more capable TV as your daily driver. If you want to be in the TT game, you got to have a vehicle that is more than capable of handling the GROSS (ie loaded with gear and all tanks full) weight of your TT... not only for your safety and that of your family, but also for liability purposes... just my $.02 cents... or... common sense... take it as you will...

[Wolf Alaska]

I have a 1972 Chrysler New Yorker 4 door hardtop. Engine is a forged crank 440 cu in V-8.
It will handle a 3000 lb A/S like it isn't even there.

A classic A/S being towed by a same era TV is AWESOME.

You could let me know by PM, if you are interested.

Let's Roll !
Wolf

[kscherzi]

Have you considered a F-350 diesel? Many consider this the minimum to safely tow a Airstream.

Kidding aside while the Flex will strain I'd use it for a while for the local trips in flatter areas until you are ready for longer trips. I tow with a Expedition a 6500 lb loaded trailer (27FB) over western mountains. The Expedition is a good vehicle with room to grow.

[Drathaar]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Have you considered a F-350 diesel? Many consider this the minimum to safely tow a Airstream.

Kidding aside while the Flex will strain I'd use it for a while for the local trips in flatter areas until you are ready for longer trips. I tow with a Expedition a 6500 lb loaded trailer (27FB) over western mountains. The Expedition is a good vehicle with room to grow.

The F350 is overkill! That said, it's what I use. Sometimes with a truck camper on. Sometimes with just a canopy. It's smooth, powerful and very comfortable.

There are lots of good tow vehicles. If it were not for the camper, I would look at either a good half ton, or something like the Expedition. My recommendation, which is on the conservative side, is to not exceed 75% of the towing capacity of the vehicle.

[dcasr]

Since your TV is a non EcoBoost Flex and you have two boys, and you will eventually have to deal with the Carolina mtns, your situation does get more complex. Your trailer tires will become critical. Go with 10 ply Maxxis or Michelin on the AS. What is the axle ratio on your Flex. I've pulled a loaded 4000 lb TT with a 302 Ford E300 with 205 HP and 3.73 axles, unsmogged and the TV pulled OK but slow, but I went through 3 C-4 transmissions even with a trans cooler. Even if your engine can pull up the I-77 hill from Charlotte to Virginia, your transmission may not last long. When you look for a TV consider the brakes that come with it, the axles ratios, how well it is sprung, as well as hp and torque and coolers for both oil and trans. Shift on the fly 4wd is really helpful, especially if you suddenly get caught in a downpour on the interstate. I've never had a TV where I wished I had less hp or torque, but I have had 2 that I wished had more.

[switz]

The challenge in non-truck tow vehicles is basically the cars were not originally designed to be a tow vehicle. The smaller vehicles with the 1" square receiver opening are designed for a very modest trailer. Even the 16' Bambi could be a towing challenge.

The driver's door post has a sticker listing the maximum axle loads, what size tires are to be used, the GVW (gross vehicle weight) and the maximum payload.

I suggest filling the car up with gas and driving to a truck stop CAT scales or farm grain elevator and weigh the vehicle. A truck stop report will give you axles loads by axle plus the total weight while a farm scale will usually just weigh the total vehicle. Then load the wife and the kids and cross the scales again. Now you have a complete understanding of the vehicle status and reserve capability to tow a trailer.

If you continue to feed the kids, they will obviously get heavier,. The goodie bag to entertain the kids and all the usual "stuff" we throw in "just in case" uses up payload.

A modification to make the existing hitch receiver stronger adds weight and reduces payload.

When I looked at the F-150 eco-boost Ford pickup, going from the bare bones model to the fully dressed out version added 548 pounds to the empty weight. Then the payload was inadequate for the trailer we had.

As a side note, the Airstream catalog listed the tongue weight for the 2013 25FB International Serenity at 833 pounds. That number was with no gas in the propane tanks or any water in the three tanks. It was a new empty trailer coming right off the production line. After installing a Hensley hitch head, filling the fresh water tank and the two propane tanks, a single 155v watt solar panel on the roof and street side and rear awnings, the scales reported a tongue weight of 1,150 pounds.

I was legal per the scales to tow the 25FB home alone with a hitch modified 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel. After loading our stuff to camp and crossing the scales with my wife in the car, we exceeded the GVW and the front axle rating. Thus the search for a new tow vehicle.

Fortunately, we selected a 2012 Ram 2500HD diesel and installed a much higher capacity the receiver (2,550 pound tongue weight and up to a 17,000 pound trailer) as we traded the 25FB in on a 31' Classic, where after modifications, the tongue weight was 1,375 pounds. We recently did a battery change and reduced the tongue weight to just under 1,200 pounds which was the absolute limit of the original Ram factory installed hitch.

We go by the tire and axle weight ratings and the door posted combined towing weight (truck + trailer).

Since the trailer already exists in your life, due diligence and looking at a lot of vehicle door posts will pay dividends. Note that the majority of vehicle sales folks are totally clueless about setting a vehicle up for towing. They only want to sell what is on their lot.

A proper tow vehicle will need at least a transmission oil cooler, extendable rear view mirrors to see around the trailer or added ones such as the McKesh mirrors, integrated brake controller (or retrofitted unit such as a Tekonsha model) and a seven wire plug at the back of the vehicle for the trawler wiring.

Good luck in your research.

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by SKP46015

One accident using the Flex as your TV and the likely lawsuit that will result if someone else is hurt will more than balance out the lower MPG the rest of the time that you are using a more capable TV as your daily driver. If you want to be in the TT game, you got to have a vehicle that is more than capable of handling the GROSS (ie loaded with gear and all tanks full) weight of your TT... not only for your safety and that of your family, but also for liability purposes... just my $.02 cents... or... common sense... take it as you will...

There are zero liability issues with the suggested setup. This argument comes up time after time again, yet it is 100% incorrect.

I tow with a vehicle where we are over the stated tow rating by a value of "many", before we decided to go that route I took extensive legal, insurance and engineering advice.

A vehicle like the Flex, with a low centre of gravity and a sophisticated suspension will make a far superior tow vehicle than many a truck with antiquated suspension and a high centre of gravity.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

There are zero liability issues with the suggested setup. This argument comes up time after time again, yet it is 100% incorrect.

I tow with a vehicle where we are over the stated tow rating by a value of "many", before we decided to go that route I took extensive legal, insurance and engineering advice.

A vehicle like the Flex, with a low centre of gravity and a sophisticated suspension will make a far superior tow vehicle than many a truck with antiquated suspension and a high centre of gravity.

I was going to wade in on this one as you have, Andy, but read the earlier thread about the Ford Flex that was referenced in one of the first posts in this one. All the same arguments were hashed and re-hashed then (liability, legality, we're all going to die), and none of them have stopped the Flex from being a fine tow vehicle for those that want it and are prepared to set it up correctly.

Doesn't one of our board moderators tow with a Flex?

[davisfox]

Thank you to all who responded to my post. I wanted to let you all know that I decided to trade in the Flex and get an older Expedition. We returned yesterday with the trailer! First tow was a little tense.....but overall it was a good 6 hour ride back. I've got some work to do (and a lot of learning;-), but I think we made the right choices so far. I've attached a photo of the new rig. I'm looking forward to it all and really do appreciate the knowledge base in this forum. Thanks again! Dave