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Old 01-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #85
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Note that the F150 under discussion could have an optional 36 gallon instead of a 26 gallon fuel tank. The extra ten gallons of gasoline reduces payload capacity by about 62 pounds.
One issue though, according to Ford literature, the fuel is considered in the truck weight, not deducted from payload. So, the sticker on the door already has fuel weight considered. I am not sure about the 36 gallon tank situation but if they followed their other information, it too would be factored in truck weight and not payload.

When you are shopping, check out the door sticker by the tire info. It will tell you what the specific truck payload rating is. I found that the included tires make a difference too-should be d or e rated with towing packages.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:15 AM   #86
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Aww......leave the Frostbacks alone....C eh N eh D eh rocks.



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Old 01-24-2013, 08:43 AM   #87
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I'd be interested to know if any of the folks towing a trailer substantially beyond their tow vehicle's maximum rating - even if the tow vehicle has been modified by an RV dealer - have ever checked with their insurance company to be sure that they would not be negating their coverage?

I have a suspicion that many insurance companies would be only too happy to have a reason not to pay up!

I think if I ever considered going that route, it would be something I would feel obliged to verify - and would seek to have it confirmed in writing!

Perhaps I worry about these things way too much!
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:00 AM   #88
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My 3/4 ton F250 rides just as good as my wife's Lincoln LT(just a fancy F150). With good shocks and the tire pressure set at the minimum, it will ride as good as any 1/2 ton. When I tow, I raise the tire pressures up to near the maximum. Tire pressure and tire design has as much to do with your ride as does the springs or 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton. The frames, brakes. springs and size of shocks all come into play when you compare a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 or 1 ton. In the towing world, more is better than barely or not enough.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:19 AM   #89
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I wonder how the old timers towed AS trailers. I know I saw pics, videos and movies of old cars towing. Even old trucks. Those old trucks were junk. Flimsy frames with all kinds of body flex. They had lousy brakes and lousy engines compared to todays trucks.

I would bet a new Toyota Tacoma would be a better TV than a 1970 F-250.

Were the old AS lighter?

Anyway - New Ram HDs, New Tundras, new F-150, and new Chevy 1500 are just around the corner. Each iteration now usually improves the frame, engine, and capacity. I think the new Tundra and Rams will be available in 2 to 4 months.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:27 AM   #90
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I'd be interested to know if any of the folks towing a trailer substantially beyond their tow vehicle's maximum rating - even if the tow vehicle has been modified by an RV dealer - have ever checked with their insurance company to be sure that they would not be negating their coverage?

I have a suspicion that many insurance companies would be only too happy to have a reason not to pay up!

I think if I ever considered going that route, it would be something I would feel obliged to verify - and would seek to have it confirmed in writing!

Perhaps I worry about these things way too much!

Hi Brian,

I've not consulted my insurance company, for a number of reasons. First and foremost, insurance in Ontario is scarily expensive and I wouldn't want to give them any excuse to further add to my premium. Secondly, and this is a personal view only, I don't think that it's relevant that I tow; period. They're not interested that I might have five children on board when travelling, which is potentially a hugely expensive issue in the event of a claim, so I don't see that towing a properly and legally rigged trailer is something they need to be aware of.

Certainly insurance companies will look to wriggle out of paying up in the event of a claim, they owe it to their shareholders to pay out as little as possible, but they do have to have a good reason to withhold or limit payment. We can only speculate but in making a claim that had some relevance to towing, I'm sure an insurance company might point to "operating the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications". Equally one could argue, though, that modifying the set up to aid towing performance, even with the addition of just a weight distribution system, nullifies the manufacturer's original intent and therefore their specification. We could indulge in more speculation about just what defines a "tow rating" and how modifications may or may not affect it, but that's really for the lawyers working on specific cases.

I don't know that much about auto insurance; do they pay claims where you're in contravention of a traffic law such as speeding, or having under-inflated tires or some such? I'm guessing that if the misdemeanour contributed to the claim then maybe they might reduce or withhold payment. Follow the logic and I suppose the company might want to reduce or withhold payment if exceeding a tow rating contributed to the claim; the thing is, they'd have to prove it, which given both the nebulous nature of a tow rating and the effects of modifications made to improve towing performance, might be problematical for them.

I've not heard of any issues with tow ratings and insurance; maybe some folks have had problems, I don't know.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:49 AM   #91
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Hi Brian,

I've not consulted my insurance company, for a number of reasons.

I've not heard of any issues with tow ratings and insurance; maybe some folks have had problems, I don't know.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.


Thanks for the input. I understand your perspective, and certainly each of us have our own degree of comfort with these things !

For my part, when it comes to insurance, I always have the feeling that I am fooling myself if I pay for insurance that isn't there when I need it!

That's why, for example, before retiring, I always used to "fess up"
as to whether or not our cars were used for driving to work and such even though it probably increased our premiums!

To your point about speeding, I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I would think that if there was a way for the insurance company to prove that you had been speeding and got into an accident, you may well not be covered.

I'm pretty sure that would be the case if you got into an accident while over the legal blood alcohol level.

Perhaps it comes down to an assessment of the seriousness of the infraction.

Be interesting if we had some insurance agents here on the forum to comment!


On a non-related insurance issue, when I bought our AS and took out insurance on it, I wanted to ensure that my policy included coverage for hail damage. My broker ensured me that it did and so i paid up.

A month or so later when my policy arrived, I read through it and learned that for the coverage to kick in, the hail would have to cause perforation!

What weasel words!

I wound up changing companies and paying quite a bit more to ensure that I had coverage for (expensive) cosmetic damage to the trailer due to hail!

As mentioned, I may be a bit paranoid about these things!

All the best ................. Brian
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:28 AM   #92
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Were the old AS lighter?

Yep....at least the published weights

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Old 01-24-2013, 10:54 AM   #93
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You would be surprised what the car black box tells dealers. They knew my seat belt was not fastened.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:57 AM   #94
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Were the old AS lighter?
Absolutely. Check the specs on AS.com. They were narrower too. Add to that in the 80's, American cars lost their full frame so there went true towing capabilities.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:09 AM   #95
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Chuckle away, Moflash.

Take the time to view Andy's work on his website:

Can-Am RV Centre | #1 Airstream Dealer in Customer Satisfaction Worldwide | Your Full-Service RV Dealer

You'll find no one better qualified in the US and Canada to write about towing.
Not real impressed with Andy if he let you go out the door with a Toyota Sienna that has a max tow rating of 3500 lbs and a total payload of approx 1200lbs knowing full well that you and your 5 children that ride with you and that you were going to pull a 28ft Airstream with a real tongue weight of appox 1000 lbs and a GVW 7600lbs.Plus the weight of the hitch they installed and wd system.
Wow!! Have you ever looked underneath your Sienna and looked at the the size of your drive axle and CV joints(about the diameter of a US quarter) much less the rear trailing axles and coil springs?
I read about these tow vehicle selections and I just cant believe the number of people out there that not only risk their lives but more importantly innocent people around them.To save gas? Money? Ride quality?What?
I would have liked to read the disclaimer that you signed from CanAm Rv center on this deal.
Definitely not cool MRUKTOAD
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #96
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You would be surprised what the car black box tells dealers. They knew my seat belt was not fastened.
Anyone who falls for Flo is also giving it up.....


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Old 01-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #97
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Not real impressed with Andy if he let you go out the door with a Toyota Sienna that has a max tow rating of 3500 lbs and a total payload of approx 1200lbs knowing full well that you and your 5 children that ride with you and that you were going to pull a 28ft Airstream with a real tongue weight of appox 1000 lbs and a GVW 7600lbs.Plus the weight of the hitch they installed and wd system.
Wow!! Have you ever looked underneath your Sienna and looked at the the size of your drive axle and CV joints(about the diameter of a US quarter) much less the rear trailing axles and coil springs?
I read about these tow vehicle selections and I just cant believe the number of people out there that not only risk their lives but more importantly innocent people around them.To save gas? Money? Ride quality?What?
I would have liked to read the disclaimer that you signed from CanAm Rv center on this deal.
Definitely not cool MRUKTOAD
Thanks for that Moflash, I shall file it with all the other "Oh no, you're going to kill us all" posts.

I'll say it again, read up on Andy's work on his website and in his regular "Hitch Hints" column in Airstream Life. You will quickly see that towing is so much more than just weight and playing around with numbers.

You don't have to agree with his take on towing, but given that he's run a successful business specialising in towing solutions for travel trailers for over 40 years, you should at least respect his experience and knowledge in his chosen field. I can assure you that Can Am as a business would never let an unsafe or untested set up off their lot if they weren't 100% happy with it. However, you appear to know better....
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:56 PM   #98
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Thanks for that Moflash, I shall file it with all the other "Oh no, you're going to kill us all" posts.

I'll say it again, read up on Andy's work on his website and in his regular "Hitch Hints" column in Airstream Life. You will quickly see that towing is so much more than just weight and playing around with numbers.

You don't have to agree with his take on towing, but given that he's run a successful business specialising in towing solutions for travel trailers for over 40 years, you should at least respect his experience and knowledge in his chosen field. I can assure you that Can Am as a business would never let an unsafe or untested set up off their lot if they weren't 100% happy with it. However, you appear to know better....
I totally agree with Mr UK Toad. Andy is the best. We followed his advise and couldn't be happier. We even went to CanAm after we purchased out new 'Stream!!
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