New f 150 diesel

[Baby Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Caffeinated

Hmmm. Only 1100 lbs pay load will not work for me. I figure my TW is 800-1000, add passengers, dogs, coolers, clothes, barbeque, bikes, well...

Still, looks like a really nice truck. And the milage is impressive.

Mike

It wouldn't work for me either, but the OP's 1970 27' Overlander originally claimed to have a hitch weight of 450 to 465 lbs., so that leaves about 700 lbs. for passengers, dogs, coolers, clothes, barbeque, bikes, etc.

Should work out just fine.

[brick1]

I have a new F250 Diesel, pulling my 2018 Serenity 28. A few of my gear head friends are asking if I have plugged up a “tuner” yet? From the factory it ihas 935 lb ft of torque and 450 HP. 😳
I think I will leave it “stock”...
brick

[Myelfself]

Yeah the 1100 lb payload really makes me wonder how they can claim 11,500 lb towing capacity. Minimum 10% tongue weight, doesn't leave any room for even a driver. Not sure if all the car companies do this or not, I work at Ford so didn't look at anything else for a TV.
Yes, original tongue weight for 1970 Overlander was 465 lbs, but with a complete redo on the trailer I'm going to have to be careful and watch the weight and balance when I'm ready to start putting it back together for sure.
I think it was for 2016 model year when Ford went with full aluminum body for F 150. I think Expedition/ Navigator went all aluminum for 2018 but not positive about that.

[brick1]

That is a really low payload for a 1/2 ton...
brick

[ElBrillante]

Those Diesel engines are very heavy!

[Myelfself]

Well it's more than a 1/2 ton. Lol. But yeah, heavy engine and just about every option you can think of.... those massaging seats can't be light

[brick1]

I traded my Expedition because it only had 1319 lbs of payload. With almost 1000 lbs on the hitch ( before WD), not a lot of capacity left over.
brick

[SailorSam205]

Originally Posted by Myelfself

Well it's more than a 1/2 ton. Lol. But yeah, heavy engine and just about every option you can think of.... those massaging seats can't be light

I don't think the seats are more than a few pounds. System is an air pump, some valves, and a set of bladders. Last Ford guide I have has the Platinum trim as adding 24 lbs. for everything in the package.

I will say that the seats do a good job!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by brick1

I traded my Expedition because it only had 1319 lbs of payload. With almost 1000 lbs on the hitch ( before WD), not a lot of capacity left over.
brick

Geez, Dads 1975 Silver Streak had an 1100-lb TW. And the 1976 Cadillac pulling it an 1,100lb payload. Then add five persons. Somehow we covered the continent (as did all others) since we paid attention to axle & tire limits. Used proper WD.

That poor car was sold a dozen year later with just over 190k miles. One trans rebuild and just underwent second brake job. Next owner pulled an enclosed trailer with two British sports cars to shows. Motor still untouched at 240k.

Learn what matters. It isn’t “payload “. Or, “tow rating”.

.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Myelfself

Yeah the 1100 lb payload really makes me wonder how they can claim 11,500 lb towing capacity. Minimum 10% tongue weight, doesn't leave any room for even a driver. Not sure if all the car companies do this or not, I work at Ford so didn't look at anything else for a TV.
Yes, original tongue weight for 1970 Overlander was 465 lbs, but with a complete redo on the trailer I'm going to have to be careful and watch the weight and balance when I'm ready to start putting it back together for sure.
I think it was for 2016 model year when Ford went with full aluminum body for F 150. I think Expedition/ Navigator went all aluminum for 2018 but not positive about that.

How does the owners manual describe how to use WD? Typically, it’s a poor recommendation these days (50% of FALR). One can (should) do better.

As should you. “Weight” isnt the problem with these trailers. Or any. It’s trailer shape and suspension. . The overall design.

You want a bad TV, continue on present course.

TW on the trailer I’m hooked to is more than the TV itself. It’s vehicle design which is paramount for best in both; and a WDH is integral to that for an AS TV.

More intelligent questions about this new model truck would be:

1) Independent front suspension?

2) Rack & pinion steering?

3) Front & rear antiroll bars?

4) Rear Panhard Rod?

5) Wheel cut and turning radius?

6) Tire aspect ratio?

7) TARE weight (driver plus max fuel and any gear kept permanently aboard)?

8) That same scale ticket against posted axle limits? FF/RR weight bias?

9) Brake disc changes versus other models? Swept area?

10). Traction control? Describe type

11). Antiroll control? Describe function.

All of the above is published info (beyond owners need for TARE weight).

Steering & handling are what matter. “Weight” is already handled. “Payload” is a question determined by solo usage. Trailer towing may account (average) for no more than 5k miles annually. It almost doesn’t matter.

So how well does this higher risk vehicle suit solo duty? This question trumps all others.

As pickups aren’t needed, it begs the question, “Why?”

Sure, pay attention to TV deficiencies. This design needs band aids all over it. Focus on alleviating shortcomings.

.

[Myelfself]

So if my trailer overloads my published payload capacity on my TV and I get in an accident and kill a family of four I'm sure no lawyer would claim that was the reason for the accident no matter what actually happened.
I realize there are many different aspects to consider when towing, and buying a new vehicle. Even if I'm only actually towing 5% of the time, I want to make sure I'm within the published limits of my TV, which won't be a problem ��

[VernDiesel]

Payload is more accurately and legally GVWR especially when it comes to towing.
When using a WDH TW is no longer static weight such as could be weighed by putting the tongue jack on a scale but rather dynamic weight as spread to the steer, drive, & TT axles. To determine TW when using a WDH subtract your unloaded TV weight from your TV with TT attached weight. To determine TW percentage take that number and divide it into your gross trailer weight. Generally its ideal to set your hitch and TV / TT weight distribution so that your TW is around 12 percent. Many newbs assume TW is a fixed number regardless of hitch.

This is why when newbs put their jack on a scale and it says X then they add that toward the weight they are going to put in the truck and subtract it from a payload sticker number they end of with a number that is off for what they were trying to determine. Some times by a few hundred pounds.

If your scale slip shows your rig exceeds any of your rated maximums and you kill somebody, lol I'd say if you submit it to their lawyers that they would in fact use it against you. Naturally if it says you have not exceeded any maximum rated specs its pertinent info for your defense. For a prosecuting attorney to get the remaining debris weighed in hopes he could somehow prove you were grossly negligent is laughable. Still best to get the scale slip and show you have done your due diligence so to speak.

When it comes to this subject I would rather avoid setting up the scenario to have such an accident by setting my rig to be safe and stable via scale results. This largely involves knowing your unloaded steer weight, your loaded steer & drive weight. And most importantly your TW percentage. Also to lesser degree CVWR, GVWR even receiver rating. Truth is actual payload IE GVWR is way down the list on what matters to setting up a safe & stable tow rig. But for some reason some people want to make it the main focus in fact they often like to knowingly estimate it through bad math to inflate their conviction that it might be over gvwr and therefore a rolling death trap.

Oddly enough to their way of thinking I sometimes set up a rig to be over GVWR when I could distribute the weight differently to be under GVWR. Only to make for better TV axle weight balance which includes COG AND to keep more weight on the TV axles than on the TT axles so that the tale can't walk the dog so to speak.

[VernDiesel]

Seems interesting to me that people who are always focused on payload stickers and nothing else ignore this stuff & the value of proper loading when presented with it. To them if stacked up weight guestimates take you over a payload sticker number you are going to kill somebody. But if you buy an HD have no idea of weigh distribution TW never use a WDH no worries you will be golden.

Example 6k TV 8k TT

Set to 10% TW

steer 3,400
drive 3,400
CVW 6,800
TT 7,200
CVW 14,000


Set to 15% TW

steer 3,600
drive 3,600
CVW 7,200
TT 6,800
CVW 14,000

Which would you rather tow with the 10% TW example that is within GVWR or the 15% example that has 400 pounds more on the TV axles than on the TT axles (an 800 pound swing) where the tale is not going to walk the dog. aka the TT isn't going to drive the truck.

Happy Independence from governmental tyranny day. We're going to celebrate our great nation's constitution of self governance and pay respects to our ancestors who died to provide it while camping & boating with our family at lake Cumberland KY this week. Oh and please do your part as a citizen to keep our nation safe from being overthrown back into tyranny vote constitutionally. All great societies from history have fallen from within. Travel safe see you all next week.

[Myelfself]

Thanks for all the useful info, this newbie appreciates it. I know at least a couple different people have said weight isn't the major concern, but I just can't wrap my head around overloading the payload capacity. I know it's a little with a WD hitch, but you still want 10-15% of trailer weight on the tongue.

[VernDiesel]

Set to 12.0 percent TW with a light bedload you should be under GVWR.

[Isuzusweet]

Engineers always fudge on numbers to be conservative, so you should be good; but go easy with the finishing goodies, buy the lightest BBQ, travel with no or minimal water in the tank, yada, yada and be cognizant of your weight.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Myelfself

So if my trailer overloads my published payload capacity on my TV and I get in an accident and kill a family of four I'm sure no lawyer would claim that was the reason for the accident no matter what actually happened.
I realize there are many different aspects to consider when towing, and buying a new vehicle. Even if I'm only actually towing 5% of the time, I want to make sure I'm within the published limits of my TV, which won't be a problem ��

How will this be possible? Overloaded trucks on the highway all the time. It’s not the weight that’s the problem, per se, it’s what happens at the steering wheel. No one weighs wreckage. It’s not possible.

“Payload” is a marketing number. A feel good. The OEMs opinion of your ability is low.

Are you the one responsible for safe operation, or not? It’s that simple.

Test it yourself. Take the vehicle and load it to spec. Drive it a few weeks. Then load to actual limits. Drive it a few weeks.

Otherwise, buy into the idea that the unfamiliar sensations and responses aren’t within your ability to master. You lack moral agency. Or not.

Man or child. You choose.

“Safe” isn’t in following that which doesn’t exist in the first place. Again, prove it to yourself: Assemble the phrases from OEM lit which guarantee “safety”.

Test the results. Braking, steering, etc. You’ll want to because the pickup truck believers don’t. Not using a carpenters level across the doorframe, much less using a scale to set basic WD (is what you’ll see on the highway).
.

[Myelfself]

I'm really not looking tobargie with anybody on here, mostly looking for advice, but if payload is just a "marketing number" wouldn't it already be inflated? And yes, mist things are engineered with a safety margin built in, usually about 10% or so. Just seems very odd that people would intentionally overload their TV.

[xyzabe]

If you want to read one of the first driving reviews of the new F-150 Diesel, check out the August 2018 Motor Trend. While it doesn't give any real info for towing, it does bring up hard shifts in lower gears while in tow mode.

I expect Truck Trends will have a review more to our questions soon, possibly next issue.

[SilverCabin]

Pretty happy now that I didn't wait for the diesel before buying my 2018 Ford F-150. My Platinum V8 has a payload of 1710 according to the sticker. That's just enough for us, and we have verified with scales that we're not exceeding any ratings.

Randy