Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-01-2018, 07:55 PM   #29
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,981
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick1 View Post
I traded my Expedition because it only had 1319 lbs of payload. With almost 1000 lbs on the hitch ( before WD), not a lot of capacity left over.
brick
Geez, Dads 1975 Silver Streak had an 1100-lb TW. And the 1976 Cadillac pulling it an 1,100lb payload. Then add five persons. Somehow we covered the continent (as did all others) since we paid attention to axle & tire limits. Used proper WD.

That poor car was sold a dozen year later with just over 190k miles. One trans rebuild and just underwent second brake job. Next owner pulled an enclosed trailer with two British sports cars to shows. Motor still untouched at 240k.

Learn what matters. It isn’t “payload “. Or, “tow rating”.

.
__________________

__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 12-cpm solo, 19-cpm towing (fuel)
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 08:16 PM   #30
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,981
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myelfself View Post
Yeah the 1100 lb payload really makes me wonder how they can claim 11,500 lb towing capacity. Minimum 10% tongue weight, doesn't leave any room for even a driver. Not sure if all the car companies do this or not, I work at Ford so didn't look at anything else for a TV.
Yes, original tongue weight for 1970 Overlander was 465 lbs, but with a complete redo on the trailer I'm going to have to be careful and watch the weight and balance when I'm ready to start putting it back together for sure.
I think it was for 2016 model year when Ford went with full aluminum body for F 150. I think Expedition/ Navigator went all aluminum for 2018 but not positive about that.
How does the owners manual describe how to use WD? Typically, it’s a poor recommendation these days (50% of FALR). One can (should) do better.

As should you. “Weight” isnt the problem with these trailers. Or any. It’s trailer shape and suspension. . The overall design.

You want a bad TV, continue on present course.

TW on the trailer I’m hooked to is more than the TV itself. It’s vehicle design which is paramount for best in both; and a WDH is integral to that for an AS TV.

More intelligent questions about this new model truck would be:

1) Independent front suspension?

2) Rack & pinion steering?

3) Front & rear antiroll bars?

4) Rear Panhard Rod?

5) Wheel cut and turning radius?

6) Tire aspect ratio?

7) TARE weight (driver plus max fuel and any gear kept permanently aboard)?

8) That same scale ticket against posted axle limits? FF/RR weight bias?

9) Brake disc changes versus other models? Swept area?

10). Traction control? Describe type

11). Antiroll control? Describe function.

All of the above is published info (beyond owners need for TARE weight).

Steering & handling are what matter. “Weight” is already handled. “Payload” is a question determined by solo usage. Trailer towing may account (average) for no more than 5k miles annually. It almost doesn’t matter.

So how well does this higher risk vehicle suit solo duty? This question trumps all others.

As pickups aren’t needed, it begs the question, “Why?”

Sure, pay attention to TV deficiencies. This design needs band aids all over it. Focus on alleviating shortcomings.

.
__________________

__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 12-cpm solo, 19-cpm towing (fuel)
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 11:33 PM   #31
2 Rivet Member
 
1970 27' Overlander
Attica , Michigan
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 29
So if my trailer overloads my published payload capacity on my TV and I get in an accident and kill a family of four I'm sure no lawyer would claim that was the reason for the accident no matter what actually happened.
I realize there are many different aspects to consider when towing, and buying a new vehicle. Even if I'm only actually towing 5% of the time, I want to make sure I'm within the published limits of my TV, which won't be a problem ��
Myelfself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 02:06 AM   #32
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 225
Payload is more accurately and legally GVWR especially when it comes to towing.
When using a WDH TW is no longer static weight such as could be weighed by putting the tongue jack on a scale but rather dynamic weight as spread to the steer, drive, & TT axles. To determine TW when using a WDH subtract your unloaded TV weight from your TV with TT attached weight. To determine TW percentage take that number and divide it into your gross trailer weight. Generally its ideal to set your hitch and TV / TT weight distribution so that your TW is around 12 percent. Many newbs assume TW is a fixed number regardless of hitch.

This is why when newbs put their jack on a scale and it says X then they add that toward the weight they are going to put in the truck and subtract it from a payload sticker number they end of with a number that is off for what they were trying to determine. Some times by a few hundred pounds.

If your scale slip shows your rig exceeds any of your rated maximums and you kill somebody, lol I'd say if you submit it to their lawyers that they would in fact use it against you. Naturally if it says you have not exceeded any maximum rated specs its pertinent info for your defense. For a prosecuting attorney to get the remaining debris weighed in hopes he could somehow prove you were grossly negligent is laughable. Still best to get the scale slip and show you have done your due diligence so to speak.

When it comes to this subject I would rather avoid setting up the scenario to have such an accident by setting my rig to be safe and stable via scale results. This largely involves knowing your unloaded steer weight, your loaded steer & drive weight. And most importantly your TW percentage. Also to lesser degree CVWR, GVWR even receiver rating. Truth is actual payload IE GVWR is way down the list on what matters to setting up a safe & stable tow rig. But for some reason some people want to make it the main focus in fact they often like to knowingly estimate it through bad math to inflate their conviction that it might be over gvwr and therefore a rolling death trap.

Oddly enough to their way of thinking I sometimes set up a rig to be over GVWR when I could distribute the weight differently to be under GVWR. Only to make for better TV axle weight balance which includes COG AND to keep more weight on the TV axles than on the TT axles so that the tale can't walk the dog so to speak.
__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2018, 06:43 AM   #33
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 225
Seems interesting to me that people who are always focused on payload stickers and nothing else ignore this stuff & the value of proper loading when presented with it. To them if stacked up weight guestimates take you over a payload sticker number you are going to kill somebody. But if you buy an HD have no idea of weigh distribution TW never use a WDH no worries you will be golden.

Example 6k TV 8k TT

Set to 10% TW

steer 3,400
drive 3,400
CVW 6,800
TT 7,200
CVW 14,000


Set to 15% TW

steer 3,600
drive 3,600
CVW 7,200
TT 6,800
CVW 14,000

Which would you rather tow with the 10% TW example that is within GVWR or the 15% example that has 400 pounds more on the TV axles than on the TT axles (an 800 pound swing) where the tale is not going to walk the dog. aka the TT isn't going to drive the truck.

Happy Independence from governmental tyranny day. We're going to celebrate our great nation's constitution of self governance and pay respects to our ancestors who died to provide it while camping & boating with our family at lake Cumberland KY this week. Oh and please do your part as a citizen to keep our nation safe from being overthrown back into tyranny vote constitutionally. All great societies from history have fallen from within. Travel safe see you all next week.
__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2018, 05:27 PM   #34
2 Rivet Member
 
1970 27' Overlander
Attica , Michigan
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 29
Thanks for all the useful info, this newbie appreciates it. I know at least a couple different people have said weight isn't the major concern, but I just can't wrap my head around overloading the payload capacity. I know it's a little with a WD hitch, but you still want 10-15% of trailer weight on the tongue.
Myelfself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2018, 10:04 PM   #35
3 Rivet Member
 
VernDiesel's Avatar
 
Dayton , OH, 2017 33' Classic 8,561 dry
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 225
Set to 12.0 percent TW with a light bedload you should be under GVWR.
__________________
Transportr AS & TT Mfg 2 dealr RAM ED factory brake controller tow mirror hitch camera & receiver 1,290/12k, No sway WDH, Adj. hitch, axle 2 frame air bags, tune w turbo brake, SLT Grill, 31.9" load tires, Max ED tow 9,200, GCAR 7,800, Max Ram 1500 GCVW 15,950, truck hitches steer 3,240 drive 2,560
VernDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2018, 10:28 PM   #36
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar

 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,358
Engineers always fudge on numbers to be conservative, so you should be good; but go easy with the finishing goodies, buy the lightest BBQ, travel with no or minimal water in the tank, yada, yada and be cognizant of your weight.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 05:53 AM   #37
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,981
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myelfself View Post
So if my trailer overloads my published payload capacity on my TV and I get in an accident and kill a family of four I'm sure no lawyer would claim that was the reason for the accident no matter what actually happened.
I realize there are many different aspects to consider when towing, and buying a new vehicle. Even if I'm only actually towing 5% of the time, I want to make sure I'm within the published limits of my TV, which won't be a problem ��
How will this be possible? Overloaded trucks on the highway all the time. It’s not the weight that’s the problem, per se, it’s what happens at the steering wheel. No one weighs wreckage. It’s not possible.

“Payload” is a marketing number. A feel good. The OEMs opinion of your ability is low.

Are you the one responsible for safe operation, or not? It’s that simple.

Test it yourself. Take the vehicle and load it to spec. Drive it a few weeks. Then load to actual limits. Drive it a few weeks.

Otherwise, buy into the idea that the unfamiliar sensations and responses aren’t within your ability to master. You lack moral agency. Or not.

Man or child. You choose.

“Safe” isn’t in following that which doesn’t exist in the first place. Again, prove it to yourself: Assemble the phrases from OEM lit which guarantee “safety”.

Test the results. Braking, steering, etc. You’ll want to because the pickup truck believers don’t. Not using a carpenters level across the doorframe, much less using a scale to set basic WD (is what you’ll see on the highway).
.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 12-cpm solo, 19-cpm towing (fuel)
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 09:10 AM   #38
2 Rivet Member
 
1970 27' Overlander
Attica , Michigan
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 29
I'm really not looking tobargie with anybody on here, mostly looking for advice, but if payload is just a "marketing number" wouldn't it already be inflated? And yes, mist things are engineered with a safety margin built in, usually about 10% or so. Just seems very odd that people would intentionally overload their TV.
Myelfself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 11:52 AM   #39
2 Rivet Member
 
Tifton , Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 45
If you want to read one of the first driving reviews of the new F-150 Diesel, check out the August 2018 Motor Trend. While it doesn't give any real info for towing, it does bring up hard shifts in lower gears while in tow mode.

I expect Truck Trends will have a review more to our questions soon, possibly next issue.
xyzabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 12:08 PM   #40
Rivet Master
 
SilverCabin's Avatar

 
2014 27' Flying Cloud
Viera , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,185
Pretty happy now that I didn't wait for the diesel before buying my 2018 Ford F-150. My Platinum V8 has a payload of 1710 according to the sticker. That's just enough for us, and we have verified with scales that we're not exceeding any ratings.

Randy
__________________
Randy and Pat Godfrey
Region 3 1st VP, Florida Airstream Club (027)
WBCCI# 7591 - AIR# 17017
2014 27FB Flying Cloud - SilverCabin II
2018 F-150 Platinum - unnamed

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance
SilverCabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #41
2 Rivet Member
 
2018 27' Globetrotter
Paradise Valley , Arizona
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 52
The new 150 diesel has a towing capacity of just under 12 K, payload of around 2500. Torque is about 450 ft lbs, I had hoped it would be higher. Unfortunately it does not have the 36 gallon tank available, only 26. It will prob get arouy 15 mpg pulling a 7500 lb trailer. I'll be curious if aftermarket people can swap out the 36 gallon tank.

I've been kicking around the idea of getting one. Currently pulling a 27 Globetrotter, 7500 lbs with a Porsche Cayenne. Works well and we average about 18 if we keep it under 70. Having the truck bed would be nice.
xisme2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 12:41 PM   #42
Sam and her wheelman Zeke
 
upnorththree's Avatar
 
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Northern , Illinois
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myelfself View Post
Looks like 1146 lbs payload capacity on it. Gvwr is 7100 lbs. It's going to be a while before I'm towing much of anything with it though. Hoping my Overlander will be done for summer of '19. Our little teardrop I built a couple years ago barely even counts lol. Just turned over 500 miles on it and very happy with 23.7 mpg so far.
I'm not one for throwing barbs so just accept this sincerely.

I was a GM guy for over 45 years. I bought this RAM 1500 Diesel and I don't know if I'll ever return to GM.

My 2015 Laramie EcoDiesel's numbers are very close to your 150. It has four corner air suspension bags. It is all steel. It has every bell and whistle known to man kind including a button that drops the vehicle to curb level height for easier entry and exit.

Once I posted my BEST (and probably ever) MPG was 30 with full payload but NOT towing anything. I thought that was world's best until another streamer posted getting 32 MPG.

Which leads me to this question. With our tow numbers being nearly identical, all steel vs. all aluminum, and my 30 MPG vs. your 23.7, why isn't Ford giving you 40 MPG (give or take)?

Again, I'm being sincere, not picking.

(Retired and never worked for any auto or auto-related firms.)
__________________

__________________
Popeye, Olive Oil, Sam, and Zeke riden' on 20's.

2015 RAM Laramie Eco-Diesel 4x4 crew cab w/RAM box
upnorththree is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F-150 Diesel? Not so fast! AirsDream Tow Vehicles 98 08-19-2018 01:54 PM
Diesel F-150 Top Tow Vehicles 53 09-17-2017 10:16 PM
F-150 Diesel for 2017 Denis4x4 Tow Vehicles 13 07-16-2016 04:24 AM
F-150 Diesel...10 Speed Automatic Denis4x4 Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 24 02-08-2016 09:57 AM
Ram Eco diesel vs. F-150 3.5 Eco-boost Vagante Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 43 06-25-2015 04:16 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.