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Old 09-17-2017, 11:58 AM   #61
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2018 27' International
Southeastern MI , Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris0408 View Post
Thanks for all your replies...more details...

Actual weight from CAT Scale, just me, full tank of gas, no cargo.
Steer axle 3440#
Drive axle #2500
Gross weight 5940#

Door frame sticker
GAWR front 3950#
GAWR rear 3950#

Previously posted TV specifics:
2015 Silverado 1500 High Country; crew cab; short bed; 4x4; 5.3L; 355hp 8 cyl; 6 sp; 3.42 rear, NO tow package but has towing features such as in-cab tr brake controller, tow mode button on shift selector and hitch wiring setup.

GVWR 7200#
Max trailer weight 9200#
GCWR 15,000#
Max tongue weight w/ weight distribution hitch 920#

Based on the above we have selected the 23FB, its smaller than we wanted at this time but we can make it work. However, I can easily shift my deposit to a larger, more expensive TT...so which TT am I limited to with my TV?

TT. Hitch wght. UBW
23FB. 439. 4806
25FB. 837. 5503
27FB. 791. 5868
Go 25' or 27'. I fell in love with the 23', then decided on 25' (why get stuck with the corner bed?) then had the factory change the order to 27'.

Your TV is probably fine.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #62
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Thanks for the added info...Maybe I'm suffering from analysis paralysis at this point but I don't want to put myself in a position where I need to replace my TV after buying the 27FB. I have read multiple threads and certainly it seems most TT are being towed by bigger trucks than my 1/2 ton, I don't know if folks already owned those vehicles so no change required or if they needed to move up to a larger TV to be safe.

So more specifically, using AS numbers the 27FB's TW is 791# and using Slowmovers formula of .78 with the WD hitch 617# goes to the TV. Is it correct that 308 would go to each TV axle? If so, with NO cargo or passengers my front axle would be 3440 (CAT scale reading) plus 308 for a total of 3748 (my GAWR is 3950). The rear axle would be 2500 (CAT scale reading) plus 308 for a total of 2808 (GAWR rear is also 3950). I would still need to account for wife and if I assume all 3 kids came along that would total 600 plus say 300 for cargo would bring my TV weight up to 6840 (GVWR is 7200). How would this "cargo" be distributed...what portion to the front and to the rear axle? Am I exceeding the GAWR, particularly the front axle?

The 27FB is 5868 incl batts and propane per AS. If I add full water 312 (39 gallons) plus 300 for misc trailer cargo and finally 174 (representing the .22 of hitch weight which is distributed to the TT) for a total trailer weight of 6654 (my max trailer weight is 9200).

TT weight 6840 plus truck 6654 =13494 (my GCWR is 15000).

With a WD hitch, can I effectively place trailer weight on the rear axle instead of the front (heavily loaded axle)? Is a 27FB safe and doable for my TV? With all of this in mind, assuming this is doable for my TV, would the Equilizer (which the dealer includes) suffice or would I need a ProPride?

So far, my wife and I have come to the conclusion that if we get the 27FB we will have room for the kids to sleep when they all come along but the truck wont be able to handle it and if we get the 23FB we won't have room for the kids to sleep but the truck will be able to accommodate them. Two of our kids are away at college while our youngest is a junior in high school so we will be traveling with some combination of kids or non at all.

Lots of questions here...thank you in advance for taking the time to decipher my long winded post and for sharing your wisdom.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:34 PM   #63
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Fort Worth , Texas
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How many of these truck owners have ever used anything else?

"Weight" isn't the problem of this or nearly any trailer. It's shape (fully aerodynamic on an AS), design (low center of gravity plus independent suspension on an AS) and inherent layout (interior weight placement).

It makes these trailers easy to tow. They're stable.

A pickup is inherently unstable. And the bigger, the worse.

It's not "paralysis of analysis", it's from accepting wrong definitions of what constitutes "safe" (which is more easily understood as stability).

Heavier and bigger flatlines for stability at 4000-lbs curb weight and 120" wheelbase. After that, handling and maneuverability fall. Braking worsens as size increases (tire size doesn't adequately increase).

As center-of-gravity is higher, and Track narrows, tendency to rollover increases.

A pickup will roll where a sedan will skid or spin.

Worse, an AS is faster than any pickup thru a slalom behind a better TV.

"Payload" doesn't describe TW. That's the resting weight of a lever. Which needs distribution to three versus one point to cushion its effect and reduce instability resulting thereby.

"Ability to tow". Yeah, tow what? As this isn't described (except to state a limit of about 60 s/f of frontal area) we can find examples all over the place that defy this honest to God imaginary number.

Etc.

You want a good to great TV it won't be a pickup. That's last resort. 434-lbs of cast iron cookware and a half-cord of split oak firewood (or the other can't leave home without the kitchen sink stuff) isn't justification. Desire, not need.

As before, perennially, since the 1950s: the TV that best suits SOLO duty and can tow an AS is a good starting point (as within classes, some are better than others; design). That's where to focus.

The pickup owners who have no solo IRS miles aren't your guide.

The herd buys RVs that won't last as long as the finance note (20-years) and they'll be upside down the first eleven.

The same "thinking" promotes the idea of pickups as the default TV Ha!

Were there thinking going on we wouldn't see men put their families in vehicles that have not only have a higher rate of accidents, but accidents that more often result in serious, life-changing injury.

Follow that if you wish.

"Payload" and "towing capacity" sell high profit pickups. Any other claims or inferences about safety don't exist (except in wishful thinking).

I've used one tons hailing oilfield loads grossing 30k+ with no excuses acceptable for late delivery. And Ive used cars to tow these trailers the first twenty-five years. Any analysis of the forces acting upon vehicles shows the low COG and better suspension of cars leaves them far ahead in this -- towing stability and accident avoidance/lessened injury -- not just anecdotal experience.

Want to work for every mile? Buy a pickup. Want to ease along? Plenty of other better choices.

(Note some will come back and state how easy to drive is their PU. Sure,, so long as one ignores vehicle spacing, blind curves and rises, bad weather, etc. Ignorance or irresponsibility. Take your pick: Blissful).

OP, take your time. The trailer matters. The TV isn't so difficult as appears.

Nor is hitch rigging the pain most think it is. It ain't rocket science. But that doesn't explain why more than 90% get that wrong also.

It's only fear of the herd that puts grown men in backwards little boy ball caps, facial hair, tattoos and parading around in their underwear on a hot day.

Practicality, utility, style. All mean nothing.
Rejection of thinking for themselves.

In our case it's an examination of what constitutes stability. What is best, and WHY that is so.

Second is how to rig the combined vehicle.

Third is how to operate that.

.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:55 PM   #64
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My TV is a F350 Diesel Towing a 30ft Classic and are more than happy with my setup. I also use my truck as a daily driver and will drive that before my wife’s CRV. I absolutely love my truck and wouldn’t want it any other way.
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:22 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
How many of these truck owners have ever used anything else?

"Weight" isn't the problem of this or nearly any trailer. It's shape (fully aerodynamic on an AS), design (low center of gravity plus independent suspension on an AS) and inherent layout (interior weight placement).

It makes these trailers easy to tow. They're stable.

A pickup is inherently unstable. And the bigger, the worse.

It's not "paralysis of analysis", it's from accepting wrong definitions of what constitutes "safe" (which is more easily understood as stability).

Heavier and bigger flatlines for stability at 4000-lbs curb weight and 120" wheelbase. After that, handling and maneuverability fall. Braking worsens as size increases (tire size doesn't adequately increase).

As center-of-gravity is higher, and Track narrows, tendency to rollover increases.

A pickup will roll where a sedan will skid or spin.

Worse, an AS is faster than any pickup thru a slalom behind a better TV.

"Payload" doesn't describe TW. That's the resting weight of a lever. Which needs distribution to three versus one point to cushion its effect and reduce instability resulting thereby.

"Ability to tow". Yeah, tow what? As this isn't described (except to state a limit of about 60 s/f of frontal area) we can find examples all over the place that defy this honest to God imaginary number.

Etc.

You want a good to great TV it won't be a pickup. That's last resort. 434-lbs of cast iron cookware and a half-cord of split oak firewood (or the other can't leave home without the kitchen sink stuff) isn't justification. Desire, not need.

As before, perennially, since the 1950s: the TV that best suits SOLO duty and can tow an AS is a good starting point (as within classes, some are better than others; design). That's where to focus.

The pickup owners who have no solo IRS miles aren't your guide.

The herd buys RVs that won't last as long as the finance note (20-years) and they'll be upside down the first eleven.

The same "thinking" promotes the idea of pickups as the default TV Ha!

Were there thinking going on we wouldn't see men put their families in vehicles that have not only have a higher rate of accidents, but accidents that more often result in serious, life-changing injury.

Follow that if you wish.

"Payload" and "towing capacity" sell high profit pickups. Any other claims or inferences about safety don't exist (except in wishful thinking).

I've used one tons hailing oilfield loads grossing 30k+ with no excuses acceptable for late delivery. And Ive used cars to tow these trailers the first twenty-five years. Any analysis of the forces acting upon vehicles shows the low COG and better suspension of cars leaves them far ahead in this -- towing stability and accident avoidance/lessened injury -- not just anecdotal experience.

Want to work for every mile? Buy a pickup. Want to ease along? Plenty of other better choices.

(Note some will come back and state how easy to drive is their PU. Sure,, so long as one ignores vehicle spacing, blind curves and rises, bad weather, etc. Ignorance or irresponsibility. Take your pick: Blissful).

OP, take your time. The trailer matters. The TV isn't so difficult as appears.

Nor is hitch rigging the pain most think it is. It ain't rocket science. But that doesn't explain why more than 90% get that wrong also.

It's only fear of the herd that puts grown men in backwards little boy ball caps, facial hair, tattoos and parading around in their underwear on a hot day.

Practicality, utility, style. All mean nothing.
Rejection of thinking for themselves.

In our case it's an examination of what constitutes stability. What is best, and WHY that is so.

Second is how to rig the combined vehicle.

Third is how to operate that.

.
I actually read this whole thing...The whole time waiting for the punchline - what is the best tow rig? How about this - name your top 3 choices for a 23, a 27, and a 30 foot Airstream from the last 5 years. Several trailer length's, a set time frame and three options for each. I keep seeing your posts that ramble on and on about trucks sucking - whats the answer? - I've given specific trailers to work with.

Thanks!
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:40 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
How many of these truck owners have ever used anything else?



"Weight" isn't the problem of this or nearly any trailer. It's shape (fully aerodynamic on an AS), design (low center of gravity plus independent suspension on an AS) and inherent layout (interior weight placement).



It makes these trailers easy to tow. They're stable.



A pickup is inherently unstable. And the bigger, the worse.



It's not "paralysis of analysis", it's from accepting wrong definitions of what constitutes "safe" (which is more easily understood as stability).



Heavier and bigger flatlines for stability at 4000-lbs curb weight and 120" wheelbase. After that, handling and maneuverability fall. Braking worsens as size increases (tire size doesn't adequately increase).



As center-of-gravity is higher, and Track narrows, tendency to rollover increases.



A pickup will roll where a sedan will skid or spin.



Worse, an AS is faster than any pickup thru a slalom behind a better TV.



"Payload" doesn't describe TW. That's the resting weight of a lever. Which needs distribution to three versus one point to cushion its effect and reduce instability resulting thereby.



"Ability to tow". Yeah, tow what? As this isn't described (except to state a limit of about 60 s/f of frontal area) we can find examples all over the place that defy this honest to God imaginary number.



Etc.



You want a good to great TV it won't be a pickup. That's last resort. 434-lbs of cast iron cookware and a half-cord of split oak firewood (or the other can't leave home without the kitchen sink stuff) isn't justification. Desire, not need.



As before, perennially, since the 1950s: the TV that best suits SOLO duty and can tow an AS is a good starting point (as within classes, some are better than others; design). That's where to focus.



The pickup owners who have no solo IRS miles aren't your guide.



The herd buys RVs that won't last as long as the finance note (20-years) and they'll be upside down the first eleven.



The same "thinking" promotes the idea of pickups as the default TV Ha!



Were there thinking going on we wouldn't see men put their families in vehicles that have not only have a higher rate of accidents, but accidents that more often result in serious, life-changing injury.



Follow that if you wish.



"Payload" and "towing capacity" sell high profit pickups. Any other claims or inferences about safety don't exist (except in wishful thinking).



I've used one tons hailing oilfield loads grossing 30k+ with no excuses acceptable for late delivery. And Ive used cars to tow these trailers the first twenty-five years. Any analysis of the forces acting upon vehicles shows the low COG and better suspension of cars leaves them far ahead in this -- towing stability and accident avoidance/lessened injury -- not just anecdotal experience.



Want to work for every mile? Buy a pickup. Want to ease along? Plenty of other better choices.



(Note some will come back and state how easy to drive is their PU. Sure,, so long as one ignores vehicle spacing, blind curves and rises, bad weather, etc. Ignorance or irresponsibility. Take your pick: Blissful).



OP, take your time. The trailer matters. The TV isn't so difficult as appears.



Nor is hitch rigging the pain most think it is. It ain't rocket science. But that doesn't explain why more than 90% get that wrong also.



It's only fear of the herd that puts grown men in backwards little boy ball caps, facial hair, tattoos and parading around in their underwear on a hot day.



Practicality, utility, style. All mean nothing.

Rejection of thinking for themselves.



In our case it's an examination of what constitutes stability. What is best, and WHY that is so.



Second is how to rig the combined vehicle.



Third is how to operate that.



.


Why bash all the trucks? While searching around I find you wrote this.


10-17-2010, 07:06 PM #14
slowmover
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I bought a 3/4T. Had I to do it over again I'd go for the 1T. Became all too easy in full-timing to reach payload capacity with an 800-1000-lb TW. While mine is a DODGE I believe the "complaint" common to all lines. 2Airs words above, and on another thread make me realize that one needs to exercise due diligence (with real world numbers) so as to spec the right truck.

Good luck

.
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:21 AM   #67
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You sure you guys read what you quoted? Doesn't appear like it. At all.

Solo duty has precedence in TV choice.. Today, as surely as 60-years ago.

Trailer length, TW, don't matter that much. 1200-lb TW? That's about 450-lbs to each TV axle. Lots of vehicles. A single man, a married couple or a family have somewhat different needs. Though not greatly. For a century the standard vehicle has been a sedan due to its utility and practicality. Works for everyone. Start there. These days maybe a V8 instead of a V6 (unlike when before your time it was a big block versus a small block. We also compared police/taxi/HD packages).

I bought my truck for business purposes ten years ago. And to transition to work while full-timing if that proved out. Didn't. Then and now the truck has about 1200-lbs in the bed. (Always). 50/50 weight bias before I hitch. (I scaled it & repacked the load then scaled again to get those numbers; what're yours when solo? Weight bias and tire pressures per individual wheel check with a TARE weigh? How have you mitigated the risk associated in using a pickup outside design parameters, which is empty?)

Either of you ever used a car to tow a TT? Anything but a pickup? No, I didn't think so. Yet you chose a trailer where that's the easy way to go. Why my father and grandfather chose them, in part.

Emotions drive car buying. Blindness trumps reason. Wishful "thinking" is better than statistical analysis. Advertising Rules!!

You can attack me if you want. But I don't see the confirmation of IRS miles for your pickups (if that's what you use). Covered my expenses handily. I don't see that you've travelled across country with other loads with other trailer types. On the job. Where's the experience to put this TT towing into context? Car or truck. Some of us have that. (Oh, you ran a uHaul across a couple states once. Okay, that's a start. But that's also a very good trailer. Do you know why?)

What adjustments to your solo driving with that pickemup? 5-mph under traffic flow (not just below posted limit)? Slowing even further in rain? Slowing to posted ramp speeds? No, I didn't think so.

It's three parts:

1) TV choice based on solo need

2) Hitch lash up done correctly (another giant fail as 95% are wrong)

3) And the final piece: How to operate that combined rig

It's pretty rare -- but possible in the fourteen years I've been reading RV forums like this one (and four decades before that of reading nearly all RV related books & periodicals) -- to see someone talk about driving the same way towing or solo. Always with anticipation. Significant spacing. That's called practice for when it matters. Training. New habits at the wheel. Solo no longer means sloppy. Discipline.

Handily it also correlates to general safe driving practices as well as driving for fuel economy. (Which is also about component life, thus reliability. Goes straight to the bottom line. You fellas do have a handle on the vehicle average annual fuel burn, correct? Understand how a percentage change to your family fuel budget can underwrite vacation travel?)

Tire life, brake life, fuel economy: Real life gauges on behavior at the wheel.

Want me to keep going from there? Expand on that? Talk numbers as with [1] and [2] as in so many other posts? I can triple the current length of this post, then.

No, I didn't think so.

Quit missing the point. Take what you have and make it better. Make it best. (That includes how it's driven). And that you made a bad compromise isn't sanction to advise others do the same.

I finish this it's time for me to load 47,000-lbs into this tanker. 5200-gals in a 7500-gal non-baffled container. I get my ass handed to me daily. Consequences, front and center, COG, load shift, you name it.

I'm in my Dodge I joke about how it's a sports car. All that stuff about setting up for towing is pretty much set and forget. Once you know how. One uses number and confirms or rejects by testing. (Just like you know your total emergency stopping distance. Slowing is easy. Stopping is hard).

But with exception of brake and acceleration distances, I don't drive the Dodge much differently than the Kenworth. Same problems. Different scale. Same ends need be met.

Sure is easier to park, though. Ha!


.
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:33 AM   #68
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We keep this up and the guy will buy a Class A motor home and be done with it.
Short answer to the OP's latest question: if it's just you and your wife, one of the GM or Ford half tons with a payload of 1900-2000 lbs will be fine, and a 27 FB will be comfy. That's what my wife and I have. We bought the trailer first and then the TV. After test-driving a bunch of 3/4 tons (gas and diesel), we just found that size (and weight) to be unwieldy. So, I spent a lot of effort looking for a half ton crew cab that had the payload I wanted, eventually flying from Washington DC to Denver to get our truck. We're tall (6'4" and 5'11") and we were planning to be full-timers, so the bigger trailer was important.
I really can't imagine 5 full-grown people in a 27, even for a weekend. 4 maybe, but not 5. If you're considering occasional weekends with your kids, then get the 3/4 ton. You'll need the capacity and the bigger bed. Or else have them follow along in a second vehicle.
I love all this talk about "center of gravity" "aerodynamic drag" IRS and so on. My experience is that my rig will comfortably negotiate curves at the "recommended safe speed." You wanna go faster than that? Get a sports car. You wanna drive faster than 65 mph? Don't try it on the tires supplied with your trailer. They'll blow out.
I met lotsa people towing 27 Airstreams with 3/4 tons - gas and diesel, so it's not like that's a terrible choice. When you test drive one of these trucks, the downsides will become immediately apparent. If that doesn't bother you, then go for it. On the other hand, your test drive in a half ton will feel nice and car-like. The suspension won't beat you up; the mass of what you're piloting won't seem unusually great. But, you have no way of "test-driving" the thing while it's towing your trailer.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:19 AM   #69
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Guys...I already own the 1500 (see details above) and don't want to change it. I am trying to size the TT accordingly and that is my focus. I have laid out all the detail that is relevant regarding the TT choices and TV.

My weakest link, correct me if I'm wrong please, is my front GAWR which according to CAT is 3440. So even with the smallest choice, the 23FB,
3440 (current front axle weight)
171 (439 AS unit base weight times .78 divided by 2)
225 (cargo: wife plus 300 misc cargo (no kids in this scenario) divided by 2)
----
3836 (and my GAWR is 3950)

So maybe I am answering my own question...with my TV, I maybe limited to just the 23 FB and very little to spare.

I would really appreciate any input the experienced AS'ers have to offer with regards to MY specific situation. I am NOT changing TV but am trying to decide between the 23FB, 25FB or 27FB.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:11 PM   #70
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I routinely put 1,500 pounds of tools and stuff in the back of my Silverado 1500 and hitch it to my trailer and go......
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The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

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Old 09-24-2017, 06:00 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris0408 View Post
Guys...I already own the 1500 (see details above) and don't want to change it. I am trying to size the TT accordingly and that is my focus. I have laid out all the detail that is relevant regarding the TT choices and TV.

My weakest link, correct me if I'm wrong please, is my front GAWR which according to CAT is 3440. So even with the smallest choice, the 23FB,
3440 (current front axle weight)
171 (439 AS unit base weight times .78 divided by 2)
225 (cargo: wife plus 300 misc cargo (no kids in this scenario) divided by 2)
----
3836 (and my GAWR is 3950)

So maybe I am answering my own question...with my TV, I maybe limited to just the 23 FB and very little to spare.

I would really appreciate any input the experienced AS'ers have to offer with regards to MY specific situation. I am NOT changing TV but am trying to decide between the 23FB, 25FB or 27FB.
Don't limit yourself to the 23. You can tow more with that Silverado. Mine went 315,000 miles and if I posted pictures of what I towed with it I'd get tossed off the forum! Go to CanAm, have lunch (and maybe dinner too) while they set it up. Get the hitch strengthened to withstand the frame twist from that WD setup.

I'm amazed walking around the campground how many people have been towing Airstreams with half ton trucks for years without issue. And you can always upsize when you're ready for a new truck later on.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:14 AM   #72
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I agree with last poster. The CEO of Airstream was talking to Jay Leno on a special. Leno asked, "What the most popular tow vehicle for AS?" And he was in the 30' Classic. Answer: The Ford F-150.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:19 AM   #73
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I would recommend that you load as much as you possible can, as though you were going to travel, then go to the CAT scale, I think you may find that although you are dividing your weights in half, it doesn't quite weigh out the same way.
As the suspension gets closer to MAX the resistance is greater, thus compression is less and the carried weight is forced towards the rear, then when you add the hitch weight and the rear suspension is near it's max and resistance to compression is increased, this is where the front will start to rise, removing weight from it and why you use the WD to try to put it back up front. This is why you can find information about NOT installing airbags in the rear to achieve level, creating a reinforced fulcrum point.
While I am an advocate of all the specs, GVWR and GAWRs, if you are going to only focus on GAWR the so long as your total doesn't exceed both together, you will pretty much be able to dial in how it's carried by adjusting the WD until it's good.
If you are too close to max, then you can always off load some weight by carrying it in the trailer during travel and moving it to the truck upon arrival when you disconnect, this is what I did until I could upgrade capacity.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by RandyNH View Post
I would recommend that you load as much as you possible can, as though you were going to travel, then go to the CAT scale, I think you may find that although you are dividing your weights in half, it doesn't quite weigh out the same way.
As the suspension gets closer to MAX the resistance is greater, thus compression is less and the carried weight is forced towards the rear, then when you add the hitch weight and the rear suspension is near it's max and resistance to compression is increased, this is where the front will start to rise, removing weight from it and why you use the WD to try to put it back up front. This is why you can find information about NOT installing airbags in the rear to achieve level, creating a reinforced fulcrum point.
While I am an advocate of all the specs, GVWR and GAWRs, if you are going to only focus on GAWR the so long as your total doesn't exceed both together, you will pretty much be able to dial in how it's carried by adjusting the WD until it's good.
If you are too close to max, then you can always off load some weight by carrying it in the trailer during travel and moving it to the truck upon arrival when you disconnect, this is what I did until I could upgrade capacity.
Excellent point.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:49 AM   #75
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Hi

Good / better / best / ideal / perfect .... when I "truck" over to the local store, the lot is pretty thin in the "small sedan" category. SUV's, trucks, and vans each outnumber them. Truck by just about any parking lot and the same mix shows up. Run through the suburban neighborhood and ... yup ... same thing. I think we have more Jeeps (not Cherokee's ... real Jeeps) in our neighborhood than "sensible small cars".

It's not just for towing. It's not just for this or that. People like *big*. Out on the interstate the mix may be a little different, if you drive 180 miles each way to work each day, gas miles just might matter ....

Bob
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:46 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

Good / better / best / ideal / perfect .... when I "truck" over to the local store, the lot is pretty thin in the "small sedan" category. SUV's, trucks, and vans each outnumber them. Truck by just about any parking lot and the same mix shows up. Run through the suburban neighborhood and ... yup ... same thing. I think we have more Jeeps (not Cherokee's ... real Jeeps) in our neighborhood than "sensible small cars".

It's not just for towing. It's not just for this or that. People like *big*. Out on the interstate the mix may be a little different, if you drive 180 miles each way to work each day, gas miles just might matter ....

Bob
In the majority of accidents Small looses to Big. We Americans like things big and spacious. Back in the seventies, while visiting Europe driving on the Autobahn I used to think I was on a Go Cart track. During the last few decades the globalist succeed in turning our Interstates into quasi Go Cart tracks as well.
This year we traded our F-150 to a F-250 also up sizing the bed to a 6.5'. It allowed me to better organize for touring and came with a bigger tank . I had some concern about parking initially, however to my surprise it has yet to become an issue. And at times I end up having to park it downtown Chicago. If anything, it has made me more skillful.
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